Sportsnet top 20 centres

jonlin

Registered User
Nov 11, 2011
5,893
5,397
Barkov is finally beeing noticed for the perfect 1C he is. No flaws in his game. He can shoot, pass, defend, attack and instantly makes every player around him better. He doesnt need a perfect linemate like many other C:s. Seguin-Benn, Bäckström/Kuznetsov-Ovechkin, Bergeron-Marchand, Scheifele-Wheeler etc.
About the Matthews rating - I feel he deserves it. Cant find many flaws in his game either. And in no way am I a Leaf-fan. He is getting underrated at HF becaus of the Leaf hate here. :D
 

Semantics

PUBLIC ENEMY #1
Jan 3, 2007
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San Francisco
Well actually its the other way around. He gets more credit than he should. He just hasn't done enough yet in his short NHL career to place him in the top 5.

You realize this is purely based on statistics right? So you're literally arguing that his statistics are too good for his short time in the NHL. L-oh-L.

You know what? I agree. His stats are mind boggling, he shouldn't really be this good! :nod:
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
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Toronto, Ontario
Matthews was #2 in his rookie season. How's that for top 20? Just potential, though, nothing special. Lawl.
Like I have said before no rookie has scored that many goals in a season since Ovechkin's 52 goals in 2006. Hell Matthews did one better than Crosby's rookie season, so that's how rare it is to see a rookie in the top 2 in total goals.
 

member 151739

Guest
I think Auston Matthews is both too high and underrated on HF.

And when did 70 points become a benchmark for anything? Never seen 70 points posted so much on this site before.
 
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43Kadri43

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Jun 15, 2017
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487
Sure. Stats that don’t trump actual production though. They can cherry pick whatever stats they want. I’ll take actual results every time. Let’s wait until he cracks the top 20 in points.

I’ll take statistics with a modicum of reliability and correlation to future GF%, every time. But you keep doing you. I’m sure it’s working out well
 
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Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
29,579
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Malkin ahead of Crosby seems weird. Backstrom is also a 2c now for a reason

Geno had a much better regular season than Sid last year. I'd expect it to flip by next season but right now, its correct.
 

Leonhard Euler

Registered User
Mar 5, 2018
513
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Maybe one of these years ROR will get the recognition he deserves. Probably not though.
Funny you should say that. On these rankings he was 13 this year, 8th last year and 12th the year before. Looks like plenty recognition to me.
 

Aladyyn

they praying for the death of a rockstar
Apr 6, 2015
18,118
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Czech Republic
Funny you should say that. On these rankings he was 13 this year, 8th last year and 12th the year before. Looks like plenty recognition to me.
Well yeah, in every ranking that attempts to be objective he always shows up this high. But he's not considered a top 15 center by most people.
 

daver

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Apr 4, 2003
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Well yeah, in every ranking that attempts to be objective he always shows up this high. But he's not considered a top 15 center by most people.

You don't think a privately held media company has a vested interest in promoting certain players?
 

Echo Roku

Registered User
Jan 14, 2018
2,425
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I have a serious question.

Why aren't more people on this site being paid to share their opinions across all major media outlets?

Right, because your opinions mean ****. If they mattered you'd be the ones being paid to make lists. Ironically the ones who have played the game, been around the game longer than most of you have been alive are the ones being paid to share their opinions, and the consensus AROUND THE LEAGUE is that Matthews is a top 5 center. Clearly you 14 year olds know more about hockey.

Sidenote: Does anyone actually think that NHL.com needs to pander to their largest fanbase? What the hell kind of dumbass logic is that? They're trying to grow the game. If anything the LEAGUE website should be pandering to small market teams. Shouldn't we see more Golden Knights players? Panthers? Coyotes? Nope. The league knows absolutely nothing about marketing and only wants to keep their existing clientele.

It's actually mind numbing how someone of you come to these conclusions. How the hell does it make sense for these lists to be catered to an individual fanbase if everyone has to click on the link just to read it in the first place? Leaf fans are going to click on the article regardless because they want to know where their guys would rank. THey don't click it knowing he's ALREADY ranked top 5 and they just want to see who's around him. Again, anyone using their head wouldn't even come to that conclusion.

It must REALLY suck to hate the Leafs right now.
AKA, the only opinions that are apparently legitimate are ones you want to hear
 

Echo Roku

Registered User
Jan 14, 2018
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Do you have a specific issue with the methodology?
You mean the methodology of throwing a ton of independent stats into a blender and hoping what comes out actually mirrors reality?

The quick common sense tests seen by people in this thread (on multiple players) seem to indicate this one doesn’t work

That’s without delving into how he doesn’t disclose the actual methodology. Just what’s included.
 

Aladyyn

they praying for the death of a rockstar
Apr 6, 2015
18,118
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You mean the methodology of throwing a ton of independent stats into a blender and hoping what comes out actually mirrors reality?

The quick common sense tests seen by people in this thread (on multiple players) seem to indicate this one doesn’t work

That’s without delving into how he doesn’t disclose the actual methodology. Just what’s included.
I'll trust the "blender" over "common sense" which is just "parroting what I've heard somewhere" most of the time anyways.
 

God King Fudge

Championship Swag
Oct 13, 2017
6,308
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O'Reilly and Eichel better than Stamkos? Eichel better than Tavares? Bad way to establish a ranking.

The Stamkos of now is definitely not the Stamkos of old. I think he should be a little higher on the list, but I don't think it's uber insulting.
 

North Cole

♧ Lem
Jan 22, 2017
11,509
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Dude, if you go in for a filling of a cavity and your dentist gets the chart wrong and mistakenly attempts to pull all your teeth, you're only qualified to argue he shouldn't do it if you also went to dental school. Otherwise, just let him do it because clearly he's the professional and knows best.

Yep, dont bother taking them to small claims court either, you arent a lawyer... or are you?

Beautiful. one to add, have you ever had a bad meal at a restaurant that you could have made better? Nope, no way. those are paid chefs their food will always unequivocally be better, after all they are paid to make it while you make your own dinner without pay.

Agreed. Doesn't matter that most make minimum wage, they gets paid to cook, so they obviously know more than us!

Haha, I never understood this farcical line of thought. Your opinion is no good! You havent been compensated for it!!

Every single example you listed has a direct impact on the person's life. Is Matthews ranking higher up a list impacting your quality of life?

:laugh:

Perhaps it is.

Irrelevant and partially false. Do you say this to anyone you know that complained about the Last Jedi or some other similarly poor movie? One could argue no form of entertainment impacts peoples lives. Video games, movies, TV, sports...take the food example - how does a rare steak impact your life if you ordered a well done? A rare steak wont kill you, but people will send it back... the chewiness and a little more blood wont affect you.

I dont think that is a very good arguement, hockey affects each of our lives to enough of a degree where we get on a website and write back and forth about it....if it truly had no impact on your life and mine, we wouldnt be here. Matthew's has a lot less of an impact on my life then many other things, I only have 2 other posts in this thread, both on page one...hardly would say my quality of life is affected? Do taxes adversly impact your quality of life? Lol... you dont live in a communist state, do you?
 

CanadienShark

Registered User
Dec 18, 2012
37,585
10,876
"top 20 centres over three seasons

Puts a player at #5 who only played 2 seasons.

Seems legit.

This year, in order to get a larger sample size to work with, I lowered the barrier of eligibility for the rankings from 2000 5-on-5 minutes over three seasons, to 2000 minutes overall. This helped to include some promising young players, but there are still rookies from last year who won’t make the cut, most notable being Matt Barzal , who could very well show up on next season’s top-20 centres list.

Yep. Seems fine to me.
 

Echo Roku

Registered User
Jan 14, 2018
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I'll trust the "blender" over "common sense" which is just "parroting what I've heard somewhere" most of the time anyways.
Why would you trust the blender?

In order to combine stats, you have to make a ton of assumptions about how to quantify them. Then assume how they’re weighted against each other. Assume impact. Assume etc, etc, etc

This is with a decent number of those stats being more focused mini-blenders before this process.

About a dozen levels of assumptions later for dozens of different stats... you have something that’s less likely than otherwise to be indicative of anything

This is without account for the possibility on intentional or unintentional bias in those steps
 

Aladyyn

they praying for the death of a rockstar
Apr 6, 2015
18,118
7,252
Czech Republic
Why would you trust the blender?

In order to combine stats, you have to make a ton of assumptions about how to quantify them. Then assume how they’re weighted against each other. Assume impact. Assume etc, etc, etc

This is with a decent number of those stats being more focused mini-blenders before this process.

About a dozen levels of assumptions later for dozens of different stats... you have something that’s less likely than otherwise to be indicative of anything

This is without account for the possibility on intentional or unintentional bias in those steps
And it's still better than random people's opinions.
 

Echo Roku

Registered User
Jan 14, 2018
2,425
1,206
And it's still better than random people's opinions.
How? You don’t even know the methodology. Just the results

Right now it sounds more like you just like it more because it has an answer you prefer
 

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