HF Habs: So who would you like Habs to draft @ 15?

So which would you draft at 15?


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Mdamico

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
468
510
Say Montreal manages to land another top 10 pick and is able to draft say....Boldy.

Would you then be comfortable with the Habs drafting one of Broberg, Heinola, Soderstrom, or Harvey at 15?

If the Habs get another top-10 pick, I'd need a defibrillator LOL. Getting one of Boldy, Caufield, Zegras or Krebs would be huge.

I would be 100% ok with them picking a Forward 1st and then picking at 15. I'm also ok with them picking a D at 15, if they truly believe that player will be as good, if not better, than the forward.
 

Mdamico

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
468
510
Broberg is not a puck moving defenseman. He his a big defenseman who plays a very north/south game. End to end rushes work on smaller, young players. That won't work in the NHL when he can't bulldoze through players.

Heinola played as the #1 D on a very poor Finland team this year. His IQ is his best attribute. Bad tournaments happen. Ty Smith got criticized for it last year. He followed it up with an amazing season in the WHL.

Heinola played like a #1 D because Finland wasn't boasting a very strong back end too. He looked great in some games, but mostly against teams like the Swiss. He was destroyed by the stronger oppononents though.

I found Broberg to be far more of a playmaker and play driver ( especially via the measurement of his corsi, zone entries and pass success rate) than alluded to here. He needs coaching and a system that values mobility at the blueline.

I believe both have top-4 potential, but I see Broberg having more big-game impact because of his skating, not his size.
 
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Janne Niinimaa

"Character"
Sep 28, 2017
1,409
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Montreal
Heinola played like a #1 D because Finland wasn't boasting a very strong back end too. He looked great in some games, but mostly against teams like the Swiss. He was destroyed by the stronger oppononents though.

I found Broberg to be far more of a playmaker and play driver ( especially via the measurement of his corsi, zone entries and pass success rate) than alluded to here. He needs coaching and a system that values mobility at the blueline.

I believe both have top-4 potential, but I see Broberg having more big-game impact because of his skating, not his size.
Heinola isat a guy that's really going to take control of a game the way Broberg has the potential too.

If were going purely off top end potential then I can agree that Broberg's is higher. I just don't see it all falling into place for him.

Broberg was on a better team at the u18 and he's more physically developed allowing him to feast on the u18 group. While Heinola was on a team that he was asked to do too much with a poor supporting cast. Didn't help that his D partner had an absolutely horrendous showing (Kokkonen).
 

phillytennis

Registered User
Mar 4, 2012
2,169
1,179
Broberg is not a puck moving defenseman. He his a big defenseman who plays a very north/south game. End to end rushes work on smaller, young players. That won't work in the NHL when he can't bulldoze through players.

Heinola played as the #1 D on a very poor Finland team this year. His IQ is his best attribute. Bad tournaments happen. Ty Smith got criticized for it last year. He followed it up with an amazing season in the WHL.

I disagree... Broberg is an intelligent player who knows when to carry up the puck....he picks his opportunities.
As well, Broberg would be a lot harder to play against in the NHL style of game than Heinola.
 
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Hfbsux

Registered User
Dec 22, 2012
2,603
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Mrbip....was the one who said he played well at the U18....proving once again that he is silly stupid.

Yeah, he was saying the truth. He did great at the U18, LAST YEAR! But I guess you weren't aware of that.
 

Janne Niinimaa

"Character"
Sep 28, 2017
1,409
1,109
Montreal
I disagree... Broberg is an intelligent player who knows when to carry up the puck....he picks his opportunities.
As well, Broberg would be a lot harder to play against in the NHL style of game than Heinola.
This is really just a generic comment based solely on size. Heinola is very similar to Heiskanen other than skating. If he was a better skater he'd be a top 5 pick.

The fact that Broberg has all these tools you mentioned and still isn't ranked in any top 5 and usually not even a definite top 10 should show you a lot about his hockey IQ. He's definitely not an intelligent player. He relies on his speed and size.
 

phillytennis

Registered User
Mar 4, 2012
2,169
1,179
Whatever.... most of what some of you say is total BS anyway.....btw...I watched highlights of Dorothy.... nothing that impressive....
 

Hfbsux

Registered User
Dec 22, 2012
2,603
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Sure....I can teach you a few things about the game....you appear to need it....lol:help:

I don't want to lower my IQ, thanks. You know what I can teach you? That not every 1st year eligible prospects for this draft could play in this year's U18. You were completely unaware that Dorofeyev couldn't participate in the tournament lmao.

This will give you a good base on how to view the tournament next year, for your 2nd time.
 

danyhabsfan

Registered User
Feb 12, 2007
8,224
3,036
Montreal
I wouldn't necessarily draft him 15th but I think Suzuki is underrated. (going 30th in our mock draft is an example)

He's very talented. Good hands, skates well and shoots well.



75 pts on this team is pretty good. (4th worst offence)
 

phillytennis

Registered User
Mar 4, 2012
2,169
1,179
I don't want to lower my IQ, thanks. You know what I can teach you? That not every 1st year eligible prospects for this draft could play in this year's U18. You were completely unaware that Dorofeyev couldn't participate in the tournament lmao.

This will give you a good base on how to view the tournament next year, for your 2nd time.

I was aware that Dorothy was not in the tournament.. I just enjoyed stringing you, Att and Mrb1p along...you got puked!!!
Man... that was fun!!!!....lol
 

Hfbsux

Registered User
Dec 22, 2012
2,603
1,947
I was aware that Dorothy was not in the tournament.. I just enjoyed stringing you, Att and Mrb1p along...you got puked!!!
Man... that was fun!!!!....lol

Enjoyed making stuff up in order to look like you don't know what you're talking about? Nah man, you legit didn't have a clue. Pretty sad, to tell you the truth.
 
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ProspectsFanatic

Registered User
Nov 13, 2012
3,699
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Another discussion we can have is about their shots. We agree that Caufield doesn't have ''the best release since Matthews'' which has sometimes been said of him. I would like his shot to be more powerful, but being so little and having such a little stick is not going to provide that for him. He's at a disadvantage to Kaliyev in this regard because Kaliyev can just lean into a 110 stick that's 6 inches longer and produce way harder shot.

However, I would like to challenge you on this point as well, to see your response mostly. I think it's not particularly relevant for the way that Caufield scores goals. Caufield's scoring is based on 3 things: frequency, accuracy, and quickness. He shoots an insane amount. He rarely misses the net. And he gets his shot off very quickly. His shot doesn't need to be heavy because 1.) goalies can't stop all of 'em, 2.) they have to, because he's not missing the net, even from a weird angle and 3.) they probably won't be perfectly on their angle when the shot comes.

Caufield's success, IMO, hinges on him being able to put around 300 pucks on net per year, not on how heavy his shot is.

If he is able to shoot around 300 pucks a year, I agree he will likely be successful, but the thing is that I am not so convinced he is going to be a 300 shots type of player. He is that type of player on the USDP team, but for reasons I previously mentioned, I don't think he will be able to replicate that in the NHL mainly because of the effect of playing versus better competitions, and with much worse linemates relative to the competition. For now, he shoots a lot because he is often set up in a position to shoot, remember that is shooting percentage was 22% and 29% in the USHL, you can't be shooting from all angles and still gets those type of shooting ratio. As he plays against better competitions, he will relies on others more and more but will find himself with less relative support.

Also, NHL goaltenders are much bigger and faster, it is very difficult to beat them with a square shot, the lack of power in his shot compared to the average NHL sniper will limit further how good of a goal scorer he can be at the NHL level since blasting one-timers is the way to go to be a desirable shooting option, which is also ideal for tips and rebounds. Otherwise, I don't think he is the second coming of Gallagher either, and again, he has further height deficit to be that type of player, so I don't see that happening. I just can't see him being a dominant force on the ice that scores 40 goals a year. You mainly want shooting power, set up skills and a screen on the PP, he won't be dominant in any of those roles (obviously he could be a decent shooter, but I don't project him as elite in that role, you probably want him closer range, but those implies higher risk plays); at 5 on 5, you ideally don't want 5'7 players for the 200-foot game unless he is extremely skilled, like a Gaudreau, I don't see Caufield being that skilled, his playmaking skills are unimpressive for what you would expect out of a player his size and his speed factoring his size won't be high enough to control the play; which is why I don't see him having the ice time and on-ice opportunities to shoot 300 times a year. Which again is why I see his chances to be successful as limited and his chance of busting as high for a player selected in that range.
 
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phillytennis

Registered User
Mar 4, 2012
2,169
1,179
Enjoyed making stuff up in order to look like you don't know what you're talking about? Nah man, you legit didn't have a clue. Pretty sad, to tell you the truth.


I got you hook, line and sinker.... that was a hoot....I feel your pain!!...lol:popcorn:
 

NotProkofievian

Registered User
Nov 29, 2011
24,476
24,599
If he is able to shoot around 300 pucks a year, I agree he will likely be successful, but the thing is that I am not so convinced he is going to be a 300 shots type of player.

Good. Then I guess the argument is mostly about why I think Cole could do that. But I'll respond to your other points as well.

He is that type of player on the USDP team, but for reasons I previously mentioned, I don't think he will be able to replicate that in the NHL mainly because of the effect of playing versus better competitions, and with much worse linemates relative to the competition. For now, he shoots a lot because he is often set up in a position to shoot, remember that is shooting percentage was 22% and 29% in the USHL, you can't be shooting from all angles and still gets those type of shooting ratio. As he plays against better competitions, he will relies on others more and more but will find himself with less relative support.

1.) Worse linemates relative to competition: if he plays on a first line, he'll always be playing against worse competition on average than his linemates. If he goes to Edmonton, he will literally always be playing with better linemates than his competition. But we're not Edmonton.

2.) But he does shoot from all angles, and again, he rarely misses. The goalie almost always has to make a save, and he's very capable of finding holes. This is where I think you are making a bit of an assumption, which I think is a bit unfair given your charity in the case of Kaliyev. The assumption here being that because Caufield played with Hughes he's just aiming at yawning cages all day. I would submit to you that this is actually more true of Kaliyev, but he doesn't attract QoT attention because he's playing with lower profile players.

And lastly, as for being set up in position to score all the time, doesn't he have to have really good positioning and timing for that to be true? Here's my question for you: how much of him floating around

Also, NHL goaltenders are much bigger and faster, it is very difficult to beat them with a square shot, the lack of power in his shot compared to the average NHL sniper will limit further how good of a goal scorer he can be at the NHL level since blasting one-timers is the way to go to be a desirable shooting option, which is also ideal for tips and rebounds. Otherwise, I don't think he is the second coming of Gallagher either, and again, he has further height deficit to be that type of player, so I don't see that happening. I just can't see him being a dominant force on the ice that scores 40 goals a year. You mainly want shooting power, set up skills and a screen on the PP, he won't be dominant in any of those roles (obviously he could be a decent shooter, but I don't project him as elite in that role, you probably want him closer range, but those implies higher risk plays); at 5 on 5, you ideally don't want 5'7 players for the 200-foot game unless he is extremely skilled, like a Gaudreau, I don't see Caufield being that skilled, his playmaking skills are unimpressive for what you would expect out of a player his size and his speed factoring his size won't be high enough to control the play; which is why I don't see him having the ice time and on-ice opportunities to shoot 300 times a year. Which again is why I see his chances to be successful as limited and his chance of busting as high for a player selected in that range.

Yeah, I don't think Caufield is going to be the first person since Hull to score 80 goals, so some discounting of his goal scoring coming to the NHL is not just reasonable, it's common sense. And defoes not the second coming of Gallagher.

But here's why I think he's going to shoot a lot. Like I suggest above, his understanding of where to be on the ice, and when to be there is as high as it can be. He is a perfect F3. Good passers need good options, and Cole always presents himself as one. Good F3s are actually really hard to stop, as well, because you're liable to take an interference penalty in so doing. You really can't accuse him of just being set up for easy goals all the time, without admitting this as a strength. Secondly, for all the talk of how much of a disadvantage his size is, there's one aspect where his size is actually an advantage, and that's in digging for pucks in scramble situations. He has such a small stick that when pucks are in people's feet, or in traffic, or coming off a rebound he's going to be first to that puck. He scores a lot of goals that way. And again, because his stick is so small, he almost always has an angle to shoot. He scores a lot of goals in tight from crazy angles this way, and I think the fact that he's small has a lot to do with it. Imagine if you were standing on the goal line and your only chance to score was in the top of the net short side. You would ideally have a youth stick if you wanted to do this.

His playmaking isn't as good as Brink, which I'll give you, but it's also not weak. He can't skate like McDavid but he's also a pretty good skater. I feel like saying that everything needs to be elite for a 5'7 player is just charging a prospect for the same things multiple times. IMO, one gets to ding a prospect for being 5'7 once.
 

ProspectsSTC

Registered User
Jul 12, 2014
3,474
2,021
Have you watched Broberg's talent on display? Ivan Hlinka, Allsvenskan and U-18s. The talent is there in the offensive zone, in a much more sustainable way than Heinola.

Broberg's speed, size, shot, vision, shot generation, gap control and reach make him far likelier to reach success in the NHL in some capacity.

Heinola's foot speed is average, has a great shot, good vision, but his positioning is more questionable than Broberg's, as is his player coverage and his decision making in the D zone. Heinola had a solid year in Liiga, no doubt, but this is projection based, not instant successes.

Heinola is easily 3 years away from the NHL, while Broberg can likely step in in 2020-2021.
Unless Broberg's vision comes from watching reflections of players as he looks down at the ice I can't see it being a positive for him
 

NotProkofievian

Registered User
Nov 29, 2011
24,476
24,599
Lawd almitee

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