So... Let's talk Konecny

[Larry44]

Huh...who would have guessed.

Pick me, pick me!

 

[deadhead]

TK can score, but that JVR - Giroux - TK was pretty awful overall, opportunistic but horrible at puck possession.

Hopefully, Gordon will keep Patrick and TK together, though I'd like to switch out Lindblom and Giroux.
Lindblom - Patrick - TK should play together for an extended period and hopefully develop some chemistry.

Same with Farabee/Ratcliffe - Frost - ??? (Allison/Laczynski/Hartman or a trade to be named later) in a year or two.
Build up two fast, dangerous young lines, and the old men will get easier matchups.

The one thing that absolutely drives me crazy about TK is his reluctance to shoot, he forces too many bad passes and blows up scoring chances when he has an open shot within 15" - just shoot the damn puck, get it where if the goalie makes a play, he'll leave a juicy rebound out there. TK needs to become more selfish and get greedy for goals.

The other thing is he's the worst breakaway player in the league, can't score on those opportunities or in the shootout - which is really weird, given his skill set.

 

[Striiker]

Giroux, Konecny, Couturer = good
Giroux, Konecny, Patrick = good
Giroux, Konecny, JVR = BAD AND ALL KONECNYS FAULT, HES NOT A REAL 1ST LINER

 

[usahockey22flyers]

They gave up a lot of chances but the chemistry was great, I would have been cool with JvR-Giroux-Konecny for the rest of the season.

 

[Tripod]

We need to lock him up long term and then watch as he jumps to a 60 point guy when our 2nd PP continues to get better and our team depth/scoring takes that next step.

This summer is an important one for Fletch to get right. We can be set up for decade if he makes the correct moves.

 

[Foggy14]

TK had a lot of jump last night.

I'm looking forward to our upcoming young, skilled D-corps

+

a coach who knows how to implement a system of fast zone breakouts.

Guys like TK, G, Frost and Panarin will flourish.

Should TK shoot more? Looking at his numbers, and watching him play, I'd say yes.

 

[Curufinwe]

The sniper: After full breakout season proves elusive,...

Travis Konecny’s usefulness at age 22 cannot be denied. He’s scored like a first-line forward at 5-on-5 for the better part of two seasons now, and he’s flashing the type of skills that earn a player the coveted “sniper” designation. His raw scoring totals may not have jumped from Year 2 to Year 3 as some anticipated they might, but his even-strength point production bona fides should be unquestioned at this point.

when Konecny functions as the “scorer” on a line with more responsible two-way threats, the trio tends to torch the opposition by every metric — and Konecny keeps racking up points. Yes, this means Konecny might not be a fit on every line. But on lines where he does fit, he provides enormous value, and shows no signs of being a statistical liability. Add in the fact that he’s held an elevated shooting percentage for two consecutive seasons now, and we’re talking about the perfect player to add to an otherwise defensively responsible line to give it an infusion of scoring pop.

 

[deadhead]

TK would be a perfect match for Lindblom and Patrick, solid two way players who can feed him the biscuit.
And AV will help, TK really regressed under Gordon, becoming one of the worst defensive players in the NHL.

No, he's not a 1st line guy until he develops a complete game, right now TK is more of a scorer (and needs to be more selfish) than anything else, but he has the potential to be a Marchand like player, has to develop some shake and bake (especially on O-zone entries), let the game come to him more, be more responsible on the back check (he's short but stout and has the speed to be both a top fore checker and disruptive back checker).

But hey, he'll be all of 22 next season, with "tough love" coaching he can take his game up a notch or two.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Saying he's not a first line guy when he has been a great first line player doesn't compute.


Is Voracek not a first line guy now?

 

[David St Hubbins]

Lehtera is a multi-line player.

 

[deadhead]

Saying he's not a first line guy when he has been a great first line player doesn't compute.


Is Voracek not a first line guy now?

Voracek isn't a first line guy either, below average defensively.
Couts and Giroux are our only 1st line caliber players right now.
TK has that potential if he learns to play both ways consistently.

Last three years - EV GAR
Couts 10.6, 18.3, 15.1
Giroux 0.2, 14.3, 11.7
TK 3.1, 10.2, 1.1
Voracek -3.3, 3.9, 0.8
Lindblom ---, 1.5, 5.0
Patrick ---, 0.4, 1.7
Laughton ---, -0.5, 1.4
JVR 8.3, 8.5, -0.3
Hartman 7.2, 2.0, 2.3

 

[Adtar02]

Just wow. Really poor analysis

 

[Beef Invictus]

Voracek isn't a first line guy either, below average defensively.
Couts and Giroux are our only 1st line caliber players right now.
TK has that potential if he learns to play both ways consistently.

Last three years - EV GAR
Couts 10.6, 18.3, 15.1
Giroux 0.2, 14.3, 11.7
TK 3.1, 10.2, 1.1
Voracek -3.3, 3.9, 0.8
Lindblom ---, 1.5, 5.0
Patrick ---, 0.4, 1.7
Laughton ---, -0.5, 1.4
JVR 8.3, 8.5, -0.3
Hartman 7.2, 2.0, 2.3

You don't know what first line players are, that's really the only possible conclusion here.

 

[bobbythebrain]

80 point player not a 1st line guy.

You know who else is not 1st line material. Patrick Kane. Spent most of his career on the 2nd and gets gross amounts of ozone starts. Below average defensively

How about Malkin. Hes definitely not 1st line material

 

[Beef Invictus]

80 point player not a 1st line guy.

You know who else is not 1st line material. Patrick Kane. Spent most of his career on the 2nd and gets gross amounts of ozone starts. Below average defensively

How about Malkin. Hes definitely not 1st line material

Today I learned that Alex Ovechkin, in the running for best at his position all-time, isn't a first liner.

 

[Appleyard]

Voracek isn't a first line guy either, below average defensively.
Couts and Giroux are our only 1st line caliber players right now.
TK has that potential if he learns to play both ways consistently.

Last three years - EV GAR
Couts 10.6, 18.3, 15.1
Giroux 0.2, 14.3, 11.7
TK 3.1, 10.2, 1.1
Voracek -3.3, 3.9, 0.8
Lindblom ---, 1.5, 5.0
Patrick ---, 0.4, 1.7
Laughton ---, -0.5, 1.4
JVR 8.3, 8.5, -0.3
Hartman 7.2, 2.0, 2.3

I mean... if Hayes signs they have six forwards who over the last 2 seasons are top 100 in the NHL in 5v5 P/60.

 

[deadhead]

That's because certain people around here focus on points scored and ignore the rest of the game.

Simmonds is a perfect example, he was below replacement at 5x5 yet had 24 goals and 46 points two years ago, which is why you separate ES from PP scoring, a player could be a good PP scorer but otherwise someone you need to shelter.

Voracek is a good PP point producer, at 5x5 he consistently scores points yet ends up looking barely above replacement on advanced metrics.
Now if he was an exceptional goal scorer you could claim he converts scoring opportunities at a higher rate than the average player (Ovechkin), so advanced metrics underestimates his value, but that argument doesn't apply to Voracek.

Voracek isn't a bad player, he's just not as valuable as his raw scoring stats would suggest.
And watching him it comes down to defense and turnovers, he is often MIA on defense and forces plays in the cycle, turning the puck over.
He simply isn't the same caliber player as Couts and a healthy Giroux.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Man I hope Voracek reads these boards and replies with another "Shut the f*** up Deadhead"

 

[Beef Invictus]

Jaromir Jagr and Pavel Bure, noted 2nd liners.

 

[Oskar Man]

I don't know what you hivers aren't grasping. He's a negative 5v5 linemate according to WB/BSSx60 (Weak Backchecker/Baby Shit Soft x 60mins for you ignoramuses) and is essentially an overpaid PP specialist.

Get a grip

 

[Appleyard]

Well if we are going off the underlying stats such as ExGF Rel, CF Rel etc then Lindblom is a 1st liner in those metrics and scored at 2nd line pace last year. As he is top 45 across the board since entering the NHL. Yet he is not a 1st liner.

I mean, going off GAR alone Andrew MacDonald was the 5th most valuable Flyer last year... GAR is a nice stat, but it also relies heavily on "measures of what happened" as opposed to expected results based off bigger, steadier samples. And it struggles to divide "effects" at times between team-mates who spend a lot of time together.

No single stat is perfect. Game score tells us Jake is a solid 2nd liner at 5v5, his production says 1st liner. There are not many guys in the NHL that all of GAR, GS and scoring itself will tell you are actual 1st liners, even if alone each says around 90.

And Lindblom is no-where near the player Jake is. And Jake is still a positive in those stats over the last few years as well.

There are like ~15-20 guys in the NHL who put up great scoring, relative underlying stats and raw underlying stats consistently.

Case in point, over the last 3 seasons here are the players over "1st line level" in all the following areas:

1.9 P/60
+2.00 CF Rel
+2.45 ExGF Rel

Leaves you with 30 players... without the raw stats included.

It is difficult to be good at everything in the best league on earth, and if you are you are not just a 1st liner, but a star, an elite player.

Jake is a 1st line player. It is quite clear overall.

 

[deadhead]

Man I hope Voracek reads these boards and replies with another "Shut the f*** up Deadhead"

I'd rather he decided to lay off Mama's cooking, get a trainer to "Provorov" him, and come out this season dedicated to playing 200 feet every night, the way he seemed to do at the WC.

Then he can tell me to "Shut the f*** up" with his play on his ice.
He has the talent to be an elite player, but up to now we've only seen flashes of greatness.

He's turning 30, that's the point at which a player has to decide to just cash paychecks or focus on building the legacy he'll live with for the rest of his life.

It's not like Voracek is the only athlete ever to face this cusp, listening to Embiid, he's starting to realize that "playing the clown prince" is fun, but if he wants to be remembered as a great player, he needs to dedicate himself to the game.

JJ Watt said it perfectly:

Right now my job is to watch film, work out and treat my body right. When I get done with football, then I can relax and drink as many beers as I want and hang out and be a regular guy. Right now, I am a football player and I will sacrifice whatever is necessary to be the best. ~ On lack of a social life

The way I look at it is that somebody in the world, no matter what your field is — teacher, violinist, football player — has to be the best. Why not me? If I dedicate all my time, if I cut out all the other crap from my life, if I give everything I have to this game for 10 or 12 years, maybe it is. And when I’m done, I’ll go sit on my front porch with my buddies, have a beer, and say, ‘That was pretty cool, wasn’t it? ~ On his dedication to being the best

 

[Appleyard]

You do not get to the level of player Jakub Voracek is in ANY sport without dedicating your life to it and working hard.

Yes, natural talent is involved, but Jake has had a career where he has been arguably a top ~20 winger or so in the NHL for a SEVEN year span. So few players in history can say that. And when all is said and done he should probably be in most peoples top 8 wingers ever to play for the franchise.

Not everyone can be Jaromir Jagr or Eric Lindros.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Buffalo fans and Briere would all be shocked to learn that in 06-07 when he scored 95 points and finished 10th in league scoring, he was actually a 2nd line player.

 

[David St Hubbins]

TK is a very good player. Most teams would kill to get him. The fact that he's not a "generational player" like McJesus or (insert random Leaf name) doesn't change that.