Value of: Slava Voynov’s rights

[Cobra Commander]

Nope, I think some of us just believe in the moral integrity of the league, but nice try!

You must not watch Football or Basketball then..

 

[mouser]

In this instance it will not, or I doubt it will be anything more than pro forma. I'm sure when Don Fehr is in a press conference during the next CBA negotiations/lockout, he's going to love getting questions from reporters about how the fate of wife beaters fits into what the PA is seeking.

It's the same way teacher's union won't put up much of a fight if one of it's members were caught diddling a student. Don't at me on the fact that they're not the same thing. The principle is the same.

The PA would put up a fight. Simply on the principle that it doesn’t want to allow a precedent to be set that the NHL can suspend a player for life. From the PA’s perspective it would be less about Voynov individually and more about union rights for other players going forward.

 

[mouser]

MOD: Does anyone actually want to discuss the value of Voynov’s rights?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

The PA would put up a fight. Simply on the principle that it doesn’t want to allow a precedent to be set that the NHL can suspend a player for life. From the PA’s perspective it would be less about Voynov individually and more about union rights for other players going forward.

The PA has to pick it battles though. Given the severity of the incident, a court or an arbitrator, whoever it ends up before, might actually give the league the power to do that, or something close to it.

The MLBPA, which is much more powerful than the NHLPA, accepted draconian penalties for PED use due to public outcry. I’m sure you’re well aware of what’s going on in the world regarding public opinion on issues such as domestic abuse.

Neither the PA nor the NHL want to deal with the Voynov issue if they can possibly avoid it. Bettman is a talented lawyer, so I think he’s working on a way to basically pocket veto his return.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

MOD: Does anyone actually want to discuss the value of Voynov’s rights?

I’ve said it before, his rights will be worth virtually nothing if he’s allowed back.

 

[Starat327]

MOD: Does anyone actually want to discuss the value of Voynov’s rights?

No, i think most people agree that his rights are worth nothing until he is granted reinstatement. Maybe someone offers a conditional pick (7th now, 2nd if he is reinstated type of deal), but otherwise, no this is a just a poop on wife beaters who can never redeem themselves fest.

 

[mouser]

The PA has to pick it battles though. Given the severity of the incident, a court or an arbitrator, whoever it ends up before, might actually give the league the power to do that, or something close to it.

Based on the CBA and past precendent in other major professional sports with CBA’s I think it’s impossible an arbitrator will agree the the NHL has the power to ban Voynov for life. The league can suspend/punish him and set further conditions on his reinstatement, but there’s no way a lifetime ban will fly once the PA files a grievance. Which is also why the NHL will not even consider the idea of a permanent ban should Voynov go through the steps required to be reinstated by the league.

 

[Spazkat]

You must not watch Football or Basketball then..

Football and basketball players do all sorts of things that hockey players wouldn't dream of. Football especially is accepting of some pretty extreme behaviors.

They hockey world on the other hand, collectively flipped out because Ho-Sang had some white decorations on his skates

 

[Claypool]

While I believe in 2nd chances I can also understand why a league like the NHL would take a stand against this.

Teams aren't going to want to have to answer questions about this repeatedly and especially players. Furthermore if you are a team that is struggling to accrue a fan base, bringing someone in who may turn people away, regardless of how you feel about him, is probably not a good business decision.

The reality is NHLers are open to the public more than they have ever been before through different social media outlets and having to deal with outcry by some fans against Voynov would be a PR nightmare for teams.

The fact is most people don't care about players' personal lives. They just want a winning hockey team.

If Dany Heatley literally killed someone and was welcomed back. Patrick Kane was charged with rape and the media pretty much swept it under the rug when the case was thrown out due to lack of evidence. The very same media voted him for MVP.

If Voynov is brought back it'll be a topic for a few weeks then no one will care anymore. It'll be far from a PR nightmare.

 

[LeapOnOver]

The fact is most people don't care about players' personal lives. They just want a winning hockey team.

If Dany Heatley literally killed someone and was welcomed back. Patrick Kane was charged with rape and the media pretty much swept it under the rug when the case was thrown out due to lack of evidence. The very same media voted him for MVP.

If Voynov is brought back it'll be a topic for a few weeks then no one will care anymore. It'll be far from a PR nightmare.

Such a broad narrative you are painting. Both situations you mentioned stand on their own and can't be just mingled in with each other. As far as "people"...not all "people" decide about Voynov's return to the NHL. It's the actual executives of the NHL that determine it. If you think bosses just forget when you eff up on the job, they don't.

 

[Starat327]

Such a broad narrative you are painting. Both situations you mentioned stand on their own and can't be just mingled in with each other. As far as "people"...not all "people" decide about Voynov's return to the NHL. It's the actual executives of the NHL that determine it. If you think bosses just forget when you eff up on the job, they don't.

Voynov didnt mess up on the job. He messed up horribly off of it.

He messed up off of it. The broad narrative youre painting has Voynov coming to work everyday and choking on the Kings Ice team, instead of him going home and having a miserable personal life and making terrible personal choices. You or I could beat our wives/husbands, if we had one (i wont assume), and our jobs would care. There are obviously optics to Voynov doing that, and im not downplaying them. But saying "bosses dont forget" is a terrible way to look at this.

 

[Claypool]

Such a broad narrative you are painting. Both situations you mentioned stand on their own and can't be just mingled in with each other. As far as "people"...not all "people" decide about Voynov's return to the NHL. It's the actual executives of the NHL that determine it. If you think bosses just forget when you eff up on the job, they don't.

The only reason Heatley isn't behind bars is the Snyder family decided against it for whatever reason. This is also the same league that allowed Todd Bertuzzi to return after ending someone else's career. Hell, Hockey Canada was dying to get Bertuzzi and Heatley on the Olympic roster.

If Voynov's wife has forgiven him (and by all accounts they are still together), then why shouldn't he be allowed back in? His incident had nothing to do with the NHL.

If the league is afraid to allow Voynov to explore returning to the NHL because of "optics" then their head isn't in the right place.

A league that allows its players to pummel each other in the face is now standing up to domestic violence above anything else? To me that's funny.

 

[Starat327]

The only reason Heatley isn't behind bars is the Snyder family decided against it for whatever reason. This is also the same league that allowed Todd Bertuzzi to return after ending someone else's career. Hell, Hockey Canada was dying to get Bertuzzi and Heatley on the Olympic roster.

If Voynov's wife has forgiven him (and by all accounts they are still together), then why shouldn't he be allowed back in? His incident had nothing to do with the NHL.

If the league is afraid to allow Voynov to explore returning to the NHL because of "optics" then their head isn't in the right place.

A league that allows its players to pummel each other in the face is now standing up to domestic violence above anything else? To me that's funny.

I'm a huge proponent of Voynov being given a fair shake at re-entering the NHL (if you hadnt noticed), but "the league lets players punch each other" is not a remotely plausible reason to allow him back in, given his original crime.

 

[Rhinorage]

If you are going to delete my post at least lock up the thread what is the point of keeping it going if people are going to argue about domestic abuse?

 

[Dustin]

The fact is most people don't care about players' personal lives. They just want a winning hockey team.

If Dany Heatley literally killed someone and was welcomed back. Patrick Kane was charged with rape and the media pretty much swept it under the rug when the case was thrown out due to lack of evidence. The very same media voted him for MVP.

If Voynov is brought back it'll be a topic for a few weeks then no one will care anymore. It'll be far from a PR nightmare.

Neither of those players had to leave the league because of their crimes. It's a different situation and a very different time. When you look at the things like what Roseanne and Gunn have had to go through recently and neither of them were convicted of anything.

The fact is there are not comparables for this situation and I can see and totally understand why teams would not be interested in Voynov. This is still very much an old boys club and it would not shock me in the least if no team was interested in bringing him in.

It could be swept under the rug or it could end up as some groups calling card to boycott the team and therefore get publicity for their cause. Who knows but I can certainly see why a team that does frequent visits to children's hospitals and events would not want to bring in a player with prior domestic violence charge.

Edit: Oh to answer the OP's question I find it hard to gauge the value here due to the players past crime. I think Voynov was/is a good hockey player but his value may be limited due to teams not interested in the hoopla that would surround him.

 

[Starat327]

Neither of those players had to leave the league because of their crimes. It's a different situation and a very different time. When you look at the things like what Roseanne and Gunn have had to go through recently and neither of them were convicted of anything.

The fact is there are not comparables for this situation and I can see and totally understand why teams would not be interested in Voynov. This is still very much an old boys club and it would not shock me in the least if no team was interested in bringing him in.

It could be swept under the rug or it could end up as some groups calling card to boycott the team and therefore get publicity for their cause. Who knows but I can certainly see why a team that does frequent visits to children's hospitals and events would not want to bring in a player with prior domestic violence charge.

Auston Watson says hi. Literally pleaded to the same crime, and the NHL hasnt punished him.

 

[Dustin]

Auston Watson says hi. Literally pleaded to the same crime, and the NHL hasnt punished him.

So he left the NHL because of his crime?

Edit: Also has the league made a statement in regards to the investigation they were doing?

 

[Starat327]

So he left the NHL because of his crime?

Edit: Also has the league made a statement in regards to the investigation they were doing?

So Auston Watson has faced the U.S legal system, and completed the requirements of his U.S legal system mandated punishment?

 

[StuckOutHere]

why aren't you calling for E.kane / P.Kane head then ?!

Because this thread is about Voynov.

 

[Dustin]

So Auston Watson has faced the U.S legal system, and completed the requirements of his U.S legal system mandated punishment?

Again didn't the league say they were investigating the situation themselves and will discuss with the NHLPA if further actions from the league will be given out?

Look I've already said that I believe in 2nd chances but for people to think that NHL teams don't think about what a player has done outside of hockey as a way to evaluate talent then I disagree. Hell I'm a Leaf fan and I've heard Babcock call his players "good person" dozens of times now.

As I said it wouldn't surprise me to see him get no offer Just as I guess it wouldn't surprise me to see him back in L.A.

 

[Claypool]

I'm a huge proponent of Voynov being given a fair shake at re-entering the NHL (if you hadnt noticed), but "the league lets players punch each other" is not a remotely plausible reason to allow him back in, given his original crime.

I'm not saying it's a reason. I'm saying it's funny because a league that actively promotes and allows fighting shouldn't be surprised when its players take that aggression home. This is the same league that looks the other way when it comes to drunk driving, rape allegations, manslaughter and career-ending sucker punches.

 

[Starat327]

I'm not saying it's a reason. I'm saying it's funny because a league that actively promotes and allows fighting shouldn't be surprised when its players take that aggression home. This is the same league that looks the other way when it comes to drunk driving, rape allegations, manslaughter and career-ending sucker punches.

EH, thats a slippery slope, and im apparently the "condoner of wife-beating" of HF. MMA fighters and Boxers dont kill their wives when they get home (usually?). As a former player myself, you channel your aggression in the right ways. Blaming it on the sport is not a viable excuse, imo.

 

[Starat327]

Again didn't the league say they were investigating the situation themselves and will discuss with the NHLPA if further actions from the league will be given out?

Look I've already said that I believe in 2nd chances but for people to think that NHL teams don't think about what a player has done outside of hockey as a way to evaluate talent then I disagree. Hell I'm a Leaf fan and I've heard Babcock call his players "good person" dozens of times now.

As I said it wouldn't surprise me to see him get no offer Just as I guess it wouldn't surprise me to see him back in L.A.

Oct. 20, 2014: Voynov is arrested in the early-morning hours at a Torrance hospital after domestic violence incident at Redondo Beach home that began at a team party. He is later accused of a felony and ordered to stand trial on charges of punching, kicking and choking his wife, Marta Varlamova.
Oct. 20, 2014: Voynov is suspended indefinitely with pay by the NHL, pending an investigation.

June 26, 2018: Watson was arrested in Franklin, Tennessee on a misdemeanour charge of domestic assault.
On July 24, 2018, Watson pleaded no contest to the domestic assault charge.

In between that month and a week, no NHL ruling was filed for Watson. Seems strange.

 

[Dustin]

Oct. 20, 2014: Voynov is arrested in the early-morning hours at a Torrance hospital after domestic violence incident at Redondo Beach home that began at a team party. He is later accused of a felony and ordered to stand trial on charges of punching, kicking and choking his wife, Marta Varlamova.
Oct. 20, 2014: Voynov is suspended indefinitely with pay by the NHL, pending an investigation.

June 26, 2018: Watson was arrested in Franklin, Tennessee on a misdemeanour charge of domestic assault.
On July 24, 2018, Watson pleaded no contest to the domestic assault charge.

In between that month and a week, no NHL ruling was filed for Watson. Seems strange.

Sure does. Although not the first time the league has done stupid things. Either way I'm not sure that helps Voynov's case. Whether Nashville or the league wants to support Watson or not doesn't change the fact that neither L.A. or the league wanted to for Voynov. For whatever reason Voynov was pushed to the outside and as of today doesn't have an NHL contract.

 

[Starat327]

Sure does. Although not the first time the league has done stupid things. Either way I'm not sure that helps Voynov's case. Whether Nashville or the league wants to support Watson or not doesn't change the fact that neither L.A. or the league wanted to for Voynov. For whatever reason Voynov was pushed to the outside and as of today doesn't have an NHL contract.

Agreed on the bolded.

My whole stance here is that while the league continues to absolutely mismanage the off ice behavior of it's employees, it makes it terribly difficult to go back and say "we cant allow this player back in the league because they have a domestic abuse thing in their past". You know when the best time to create a domestic abuse policy was? Yesterday. 10 years ago. Or at the very worst, the second every other league did it. You know when the NHL did it? Never.

Even after this whole Voynov debacle originally began, the NHL didnt deem it necessary to mandate a 'domestic abuse policy' for the league. Now, here we are, a few years later, with a similar charge, and the league pretty much has its hands tied. It 'should' suspend Watson - because A) its the right thing to do - abusing your partner is never ok - and B) they did for Voynov, immediately after the crime was announced. But they havent. And their bungling of this Watson case is going to be one of the major reasons Voynov gets his reinstatement.

The NHL Ethics committee, and their decisions - or whatever they have that would represent one - is literally worse than their "department of player safety and their decisions.