Value of: Slava Voynov’s rights

[KingCanadain1976]

First paint me a scenario...is he willing to sign here? And for how much?

The answers to those questions will determine my offer.

well I would think he would to get back to playing again It depends on the length u want to sign him to . I think a cheap show me u can still play in the nhl 2 million one year If u want to sign longer I would think less then the 4 million he was making makes sense to me but its purely a guess

 

[Starat327]

That’s kind if where I’m at.

I can see them reinstating him once visa issu es are settled.

Then no team touching him.

Isn’t that what happened to ray rice? I can’t remember now

Edit I shouldn’t say no team. There’s always one that’s desperate

Correct. Ray rice is allowed to play in the NFL. No one wanted to take the risk. I think someone will, but I think it's going to be limited, and his reinstatement will be heavily stipulated, i.e. additional suspension, mandated anger management/substance abuse classes and probably additional community service in women's shelters, etc.

 

[Liferleafer]

well I would think he would to get back to playing again It depends on the length u want to sign him to . I think a cheap show me u can still play in the nhl 2 million one year If u want to sign longer I would think less then the 4 million he was making makes sense to me but its purely a guess

If i knew he was signing a decent term and money deal, i would have no issue with 2nd+3rd+....maybe 2 2nds+prospect, not sure what the bidding would be...

 

[Invictus12]

Absolutely not , please demonstrate how him being a professional athlete doesn't factor in? You havn't produced an ounce of evidence to refute my point. There is a reason why people with martial arts training aren't treated the same as Joe Blow fighting someone. Biological differences matter and so does his ability to overpower her , especially as a professional athlete.

Maybe you should rethink why you are trying so hard to "forgive" this person. When everything he's done until now has been steps for him to return to the NHL and sweep his issues under the rug. All the stats show that most abusers will re-offend but in this one case because you have an incentive , all of a sudden we have to sing kumbaya.

Evidence to what point? There's a ghost over your head. Go ahead and prove me wrong!.. That's about as far as your point actually goes. Yeah, again, (and maybe you should start addressing this for once) HE DID HIS TIME! It's not up to your standards? Who the hell are you to set them? Oh and martial artists do get punished for being physically stronger and so did Voynov. Which I disagree on terms of morality if (Key word if) he imposed his physical strength without provocation. (Something you couldn't defend your views on once already.) Same goes to a martial artist. Or does a martial artist suppose to take punches to the head because he has training? Are you serious?

I'm not trying to forgive the person, (Yeah, this where I know that even you know your position is baseless) he is absolutely nobody to me and I have no relation to him whatsoever to forgive him. Just as you have none to punish him.

If he does re-offend, throw him in jail. (Mind you, the sentence will be longer because the system recognizes that the person did not get the messege.) After a due process. As it suppose to be. Not on your preemptive stat sheet. Thats besides the fact that him being in the NHL or not has no bearing on the matter whatsoever and yet, you keep at it.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

If i knew he was signing a decent term and money deal, i would have no issue with 2nd+3rd+....maybe 2 2nds+prospect, not sure what the bidding would be...

I can't see him signing for more then the 4 million that he was making when u left I think a 2 year 7 million would be the ideal for ur team It would let him sit out whatever suspension ( i am betting 30 games or so ) and play 50ish games to see what he can do in nhl Then a year of trying to earn the big bucks with a great year (so extra motivation) I will reask with 2 2nds and leivo

 

[CauZuki]

Evidence to what point? There's a ghost over your head. Go ahead and prove me wrong!.. That's about as far as your point actually goes. Yeah, again, (and maybe you should start addressing this for once) HE DID HIS TIME! It's not up to your standards? Who the hell are you to set them? Oh and martial artists do get punished for being physically stronger and so did Voynov. Which I disagree on terms of morality if (Key word if) he imposed his physical strength without provocation. (Something you couldn't defend your views on once already.) Same goes to a martial artist. Or does a martial artist suppose to take punches to the head because he has training? Are you serious?

I'm not trying to forgive the person, (Yeah, this where I know that even you know your position is baseless) he is absolutely nobody to me and I have no relation to him whatsoever to forgive him. Just as you have none to punish him.

If he does re-offend, throw him in jail. (Mind you, the sentence will be longer because the system recognizes that the person did not get the messege.) After a due process. As it suppose to be. Not on your preemptive stat sheet. Thats besides the fact that him being in the NHL or not has no bearing on the matter whatsoever and yet, you keep at it.

I understand that you aren't looking to be convinced and that's fine. However if you think just from a PR perspective that in 2018 it's reasonable to let a severe wife beater rejoin a company after beating his spouse at a party with his colleagues. I don't know where you the notion that ethics don't exist. He has to petition to rejoin the NHL. One can easily argue that there is no way of verifying that he actually met the conditions for his release once he left the country (and leading to the subsequent dismissal of his conviction).

He is obviously gaming the system to get back in because he is an Athlete and has the money to grease the right places.

I don't how as a fan you can argue he should be allowed a 2nd chance. Especially when it wouldn't bring positive press to the game and could potentially be a PR nightmare for the NHL. Not to mention like the only way your argument makes sense is that if you are trying to act like a lawyer attempting to get Voynov reinstated. I suppose you would need this type of logic to have a chance. It's insulting to dismiss serious crimes as if they are nothing , when he has done nothing to merit forgiveness

 

[Stimpythecat]

The NHLPA is legally bound by the duty of fair representation that they owe each and every one of its members. If Voynov is still a member, this absolutely includes him.

Under this duty, the NHLPA must act fairly, impartially, and without discrimination or ill will when pursuing grievances on behalf of a member. The union can't act arbitrarily or negligently when doing so.

Any failure of this duty gives a member a cause of action against the union. If the union acts as foolishly as suggested by some here, that would give Voynov grounds to sue the union and he would be extremely likely to win such a suit.

 

[greasysnapper]

I understand that you aren't looking to be convinced and that's fine. However if you think just from a PR perspective that in 2018 it's reasonable to let a severe wife beater rejoin a company after beating his spouse at a party with his colleagues. I don't know where you the notion that ethics don't exist. He has to petition to rejoin the NHL. One can easily argue that there is no way of verifying that he actually met the conditions for his release once he left the country (and leading to the subsequent dismissal of his conviction).

He is obviously gaming the system to get back in because he is an Athlete and has the money to grease the right places.

I don't how as a fan you can argue he should be allowed a 2nd chance. Especially when it wouldn't bring positive press to the game and could potentially be a PR nightmare for the NHL. Not to mention like the only way your argument makes sense is that if you are trying to act like a lawyer attempting to get Voynov reinstated. I suppose you would need this type of logic to have a chance. It's insulting to dismiss serious crimes as if they are nothing , when he has done nothing to merit forgiveness

^ This guy's never made a single mistake in his life. Everyone drop what you're doing and clap.


We live in a society that invokes the right for 2nd chances. We live in a society that has a justice system. A justice system that has a rehabilitation system in that after you pay for your crime, you are re-integrated into society because you paid for what you did. I know it's hard (it's not really) for some people to understand that in todays sjw/pc climate, but the real world doesn't revolve around fee fee's (read:feelings) and people are given second chances.

Chris Brown beat Rhianna. More public spotlight than Voynov will ever get. 45 mil+ instagram followers. Given a second chance.

XXXTenacion who everyone was so kind towards when he died, was charged with battery of a pregnant woman.

Nicolas Cage, Mr. Robot's Christian Slater, Emma Roberts, Steve Austin, Billy Dee Williams, even the man who saved the world from nuclear war, DENNIS RODMAN have all been involved or allegedly involved with violence against their partners, and all of them continue to find work in a more sjw/pc environment.

Abusing people is deplorable. It's mean and unjust. And for the most part it's illegal and punishable by law as it should be. No one is arguing that. These people, including Voynov have paid the price (including being called scum by people in this thread) however it is their right as human beings after they have paid that price to be allowed back into society.

Voynov deserves his chance.

 

[CauZuki]

^ This guy's never made a single mistake in his life. Everyone drop what you're doing and clap.


We live in a society that invokes the right for 2nd chances. We live in a society that has a justice system. A justice system that has a rehabilitation system in that after you pay for your crime, you are re-integrated into society because you paid for what you did. I know it's hard (it's not really) for some people to understand that in todays sjw/pc climate, but the real world doesn't revolve around fee fee's (read:feelings) and people are given second chances.

Chris Brown beat Rhianna. More public spotlight than Voynov will ever get. 45 mil+ instagram followers. Given a second chance.

XXXTenacion who everyone was so kind towards when he died, was charged with battery of a pregnant woman.

Nicolas Cage, Mr. Robot's Christian Slater, Emma Roberts, Steve Austin, Billy Dee Williams, even the man who saved the world from nuclear war, DENNIS RODMAN have all been involved or allegedly involved with violence against their partners, and all of them continue to find work in a more sjw/pc environment.

Abusing people is deplorable. It's mean and unjust. And for the most part it's illegal and punishable by law as it should be. No one is arguing that. These people, including Voynov have paid the price (including being called scum by people in this thread) however it is their right as human beings after they have paid that price to be allowed back into society.

Voynov deserves his chance.

Voynov deserves a 2nd chance to rebuild his life , he is not entitled to be a professionnal player in a league that is paid for by fans that don't generally condone this type of behaviour.

Love your examples as if 99.9% of the world even knows who xxxtancion was and even then that idiot will get no sympathies from me and from most logical minded people.

 

[Invictus12]

I understand that you aren't looking to be convinced and that's fine. However if you think just from a PR perspective that in 2018 it's reasonable to let a severe wife beater rejoin a company after beating his spouse at a party with his colleagues. I don't know where you the notion that ethics don't exist. He has to petition to rejoin the NHL. One can easily argue that there is no way of verifying that he actually met the conditions for his release once he left the country (and leading to the subsequent dismissal of his conviction).

He is obviously gaming the system to get back in because he is an Athlete and has the money to grease the right places.

I don't how as a fan you can argue he should be allowed a 2nd chance. Especially when it wouldn't bring positive press to the game and could potentially be a PR nightmare for the NHL. Not to mention like the only way your argument makes sense is that if you are trying to act like a lawyer attempting to get Voynov reinstated. I suppose you would need this type of logic to have a chance. It's insulting to dismiss serious crimes as if they are nothing , when he has done nothing to merit forgiveness

I'm a fan of the sport and I keep that separate from the views on social. (in this case, hysteria) It just so happens that this time the event involves a hockey player and it's summer after all.
A) You have yet to display anything ethical on the actual matter. Bias yes, ethics, no, not close.

B) Yeah, if he hasn't met the conditions for his release, you don't think that will be brought up by the immigration and the justice system when he tries to get back? Again, there are regulations at hand... Let them sort it out.

C) NHL might, if they deem it more profitable to let you folks have your 'pat yourself on the back' (for literally achieving nothing) day to tell Voynov to take a walk and that's their decision. At the end of the day though, you just made a big whole show for nothing. You didn't address the victims, you didn't stop him from being a wife beater (as your own statistical 'demonstration' would suggest) and all you did was have your ego boosted at his expense. And the expense of his wife and their child.... Go right ahead, show me where the ethics are!

D) Broken record much? I already explained my position as far a second chances go but you know what? Go on and explain to me why your, and publics opinion, should be taken above the justice system, above the prosecutor, above the judges and lawyers, all the people who actually looked at the matter much more extensively above the actual time served and very importantly, his wife? Go right ahead and show me those ethics.

You're not Jesus Christ, the matter has nothing to do with you that it needs your 'forgiveness.' Or your verdict....

 

[Invictus12]

Voynov deserves a 2nd chance to rebuild his life , he is not entitled to be a professionnal player in a league that is paid for by fans that generally condone this type of behaviour.

Love your examples as if 99.9% of the world even knows who xxxtancion was and even then that idiot will get no sympathies from me and from most logical minded people.

And you're not entitled to say what he gets to do for a living...

 

[greasysnapper]

Voynov deserves a 2nd chance to rebuild his life , he is not entitled to be a professionnal player in a league that is paid for by fans that generally condone this type of behaviour.

Love your examples as if 99.9% of the world even knows who xxxtancion was and even then that idiot will get no sympathies from me and from most logical minded people.

WOW! DISGUSTING. You're sick! No fans should CONDONE this type of behaviour. Oh wow did you make a mistake? Too bad. Get the hell off Hfboards we don't give second chances.


The second paragraph also also shows how oblivious you are to society. Just looking at basic reach metrics for articles, videos, and mentions, XXXTenacion was (and still is) without a doubt more popular and more known than Slava Voynov. Even people like Pewdiepie, one of the biggest influencers in all of modern media mentioned XXX.

 

[CauZuki]

I'm a fan of the sport and I keep that separate from the views on social. (in this case, hysteria) It just so happens that this time the event involves a hockey player and it's summer after all.
A) You have yet to display anything ethical on the actual matter. Bias yes, ethics, no, not close.

B) Yeah, if he hasn't met the conditions for his release, you don't think that will be brought up by the immigration and the justice system when he tries to get back? Again, there are regulations at hand... Let them sort it out.

C) NHL might, if they deem it more profitable to let you folks have your 'pat yourself on the back' (for literally achieving nothing) day to tell Voynov to take a walk and that's their decision. At the end of the day though, you just made a big whole show for nothing. You didn't address the victims, you didn't stop him from being a wife beater (as your own statistical 'demonstration' would suggest) and all you did was have your ego boosted at his expense. And the expense of his wife and their child.... Go right ahead, show me where the ethics are!

D) Broken record much? I already explained my position as far a second chances go but you know what? Go on and explain to me why your, and publics opinion, should be taken above the justice system, above the prosecutor, above the judges and lawyers, all the people who actually looked at the matter much more extensively above the actual time served and very importantly, his wife? Go right ahead and show me those ethics.

You're not Jesus Christ, the matter has nothing to do with you that it needs your 'forgiveness.' Or your verdict....

This is a forum where people have discussions, I am plainly entitled to bring my opinion without it being a considered an ego boost. It's about voicing what the fans want , you are saying , let the rich athlete play the system that was made for him to thrive and our opinions don't matter. Our opinion absolutely matters , the fans support the product which gives the athlete the platform to display his skill.

He beat his wife , plead down to a misdemeanor and agreed to leave the country. The prosecutor on the case strongly recommended that the judge shouldn't dismiss his conviction. As I mentioned no way of knowing if actually met the conditions set for his release.

Now you are claiming we should stand behind him because he might of changed , because he followed the "process". As if that changes the fact that we are talking about a scenario , where a person beat his wife bloody and was convicted of a crime which took place at a party with his work colleagues in attendance and was later terminated by the employer. In what world would that same person get their job back at that same company a couple years later?

 

[greasysnapper]

This is a forum where people have discussions, I am plainly entitled to bring my opinion without it being a considered an ego boost. It's about voicing what the fans want , you are saying , let the rich athlete play the system that was made for him to thrive and our opinions don't matter. Our opinion absolutely matters , the fans support the product which gives the athlete the platform to display his skill.

He beat his wife , plead down to a misdemeanor and agreed to leave the country. The prosecutor on the case strongly recommended that the judge shouldn't dismiss his conviction. As I mentioned no way of knowing if actually met the conditions set for his release.

Now you are claiming we should stand behind him because he might of changed , because he followed the "process". As if that changes the fact that we are talking about a scenario , where a person beat his wife bloody and was convicted of a crime which took place at a party with his work colleagues in attendance and was later terminated by the employer. In what world would that same person get their job back at that same company a couple years later?

Earth.

It happens a lot.
Chris Brown assaulted Rihanna in 2009 in a similar situation, however they weren't married only in a relationship.


His 2005 debut self titled album was produced by the SONY bmg Label.

In 2017, he released an album called Heartbreak On A Full Moon, and it was produced by the RCA label. Seems different right? Nah, RCA is a record label owned by Sony.


Corporate America and society are willing to give people second chances. It's what western society is built on.

 

[Jets4Life]

Earth.

It happens a lot.
Chris Brown assaulted Rihanna in 2009 in a similar situation, however they weren't married only in a relationship.


His 2005 debut self titled album was produced by the SONY bmg Label.

In 2017, he released an album called Heartbreak On A Full Moon, and it was produced by the RCA label. Seems different right? Nah, RCA is a record label owned by Sony.


Corporate America and society are willing to give people second chances. It's what western society is built on.

Chris Brown must be on his 12th chance by now lol. Money talks.

 

[CauZuki]

Earth.

It happens a lot.
Chris Brown assaulted Rihanna in 2009 in a similar situation, however they weren't married only in a relationship.


His 2005 debut self titled album was produced by the SONY bmg Label.

In 2017, he released an album called Heartbreak On A Full Moon, and it was produced by the RCA label. Seems different right? Nah, RCA is a record label owned by Sony.


Corporate America and society are willing to give people second chances. It's what western society is built on.

Exception to the rules explains the need for the rule...You can't use the marginal case to justify anything. I didn't imply that it never happens and hope the NHL does the right thing.

 

[greasysnapper]

Exception to the rules explains the need for the rule...You can't use the marginal case to justify anything. I didn't imply that it never happens and hope the NHL does the right thing.

In what way, rather, in what world is the Chris Brown assault case a marginal case? It's probably the most prolific and publicly known case in the world when it comes to situations like this. At least in the last 10+ years. You can literally look at thousands of other cases where people are given second chances, reintegrated not only into society, but back into the companies they worked for. Why? Western culture was founded on the idea of forgiveness and second chances. That's why we don't just hang offenders for any crime. It was also founded on the almighty buck, and if people can help make that moola, people are going to look passed things. That's the way the world works.

Also, You back-pedal a lot man. You literally said " In what world would" as if to say it doesn't happen on this world. Either way I'm done replying to you! Take care bud! I hope your feelings aren't hurt when Voynov takes the ice.

 

[Liferleafer]

I can't see him signing for more then the 4 million that he was making when u left I think a 2 year 7 million would be the ideal for ur team It would let him sit out whatever suspension ( i am betting 30 games or so ) and play 50ish games to see what he can do in nhl Then a year of trying to earn the big bucks with a great year (so extra motivation) I will reask with 2 2nds and leivo

I would do that...again, better than the other options.

 

[Invictus12]

This is a forum where people have discussions, I am plainly entitled to bring my opinion without it being a considered an ego boost. It's about voicing what the fans want , you are saying , let the rich athlete play the system that was made for him to thrive and our opinions don't matter. Our opinion absolutely matters , the fans support the product which gives the athlete the platform to display his skill.

He beat his wife , plead down to a misdemeanor and agreed to leave the country. The prosecutor on the case strongly recommended that the judge shouldn't dismiss his conviction. As I mentioned no way of knowing if actually met the conditions set for his release.

Now you are claiming we should stand behind him because he might of changed , because he followed the "process". As if that changes the fact that we are talking about a scenario , where a person beat his wife bloody and was convicted of a crime which took place at a party with his work colleagues in attendance and was later terminated by the employer. In what world would that same person get their job back at that same company a couple years later?

Yeah, first of all I never suggested that you can't have your view or opinion but since you do put it up on a public forum, you don't get to cry about it when I challenge yours, just as you're challenging mine. If you don't like that I call you out on something, either display how and why I'm wrong or accept that you can't or accept that I'm right. Or throw a fit, however you deal with it...

How did he play the system? Pleading down is allowed, no? You think only rich do that? The prosecutor can recommend whatever he wants, the judge gets to decide whether the prosecutor is correct in his assessment or not. One of the reason such a process exists (the reason why there is a judge) is that it's well recognized that prosecutors (and lawyers) do have their own agenda and their own name at stake. So for all you know, the prosecutor was over-zealous.

He was released no? He had to meet the criteria set by the justice system in order to be released.... What are you arguing exactly? Conspiracy? He escaped jail? Seriously, whats in your head here?

Go back and re-read what I said... You keep hammering the point yet no base from which to hammer it on. Where did I or anyone suggested you or anyone else stand behind him. And even if some fan does decide to do so, it's that persons right. Given that you're big on having your own rights respected. Maybe you should start respecting other's rights. Including Voynov.

 

[StuckOutHere]

"Moral intergity"

Killed a teammate due to reckless driving and admitted to drinking before the incident occurred

Doug Gilmour commited statutory rape by having sex with a 14 yearold

O'Reilly could have killed someone driving his truck into a Tim Hortons while Craig MacTavish openly killed someone while driving and received charges for vehicular homicide.

Evander Kane, Varlamov and possibly Austin Watson depending how the case goes all have track records of domestic abuse and are still in the league but their actions have been glossed over hard by the general public at this point.

This notion that Voynov would be the one bad apple in the league if he were to be re-allowed in to play is pretty disturbing when there is plenty of players and execs in the league with black marks on their character and history. Theres more players than just Voynov who dont uphold the moral integrity of the league.

Just because the NHL has proven that it lacks the will to do what's right doesn't mean fans should be just as morally blind. I don't buy this argument that because we have failed before means we can't succeed now. We aren't still hitting rocks together.

 

[Invictus12]

Just because the NHL has proven that it lacks the will to do what's right doesn't mean fans should be just as morally blind. I don't buy this argument that because we have failed before means we can't succeed now. We aren't still hitting rocks together.

Yeah and again, people are missing the point. You don't actually care about 'whats right'. It's more to display the fact that your motivations have nothing to do with ethics and morality. And in Heatley's case, as in Voynov's, when Snyder's parents decided not to press charges, that was their choice. Either way, it was their decision. Thankfully the social warriors don't pretend to care about DUIs and therefore didn't stick their nose into the matter.

 

[Starat327]

In what way, rather, in what world is the Chris Brown assault case a marginal case? It's probably the most prolific and publicly known case in the world when it comes to situations like this. At least in the last 10+ years. You can literally look at thousands of other cases where people are given second chances, reintegrated not only into society, but back into the companies they worked for. Why? Western culture was founded on the idea of forgiveness and second chances. That's why we don't just hang offenders for any crime. It was also founded on the almighty buck, and if people can help make that moola, people are going to look passed things. That's the way the world works.

Also, You back-pedal a lot man. You literally said " In what world would" as if to say it doesn't happen on this world. Either way I'm done replying to you! Take care bud! I hope your feelings aren't hurt when Voynov takes the ice.

I should've warned you that you'd be wasting your time here based on this posters responses from the thread last night. Sorry I didnt see this earlier.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I would do that...again, better than the other options.

Nice to see it is possible to make a fair deal with a fan of leafs i kid of course

 

[nickdawg95]

Nope, I think some of us just believe in the moral integrity of the league, but nice try!

why aren't you calling for E.kane / P.Kane head then ?!

 

[Dustin]

While I believe in 2nd chances I can also understand why a league like the NHL would take a stand against this.

Teams aren't going to want to have to answer questions about this repeatedly and especially players. Furthermore if you are a team that is struggling to accrue a fan base, bringing someone in who may turn people away, regardless of how you feel about him, is probably not a good business decision.

The reality is NHLers are open to the public more than they have ever been before through different social media outlets and having to deal with outcry by some fans against Voynov would be a PR nightmare for teams.