Confirmed with Link: Skinner traded to Buffalo for 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and prospect

[Lempo]

Mean Girls was originally conceived as a sex comedy but once they got the squeaky-clean Lindsey Lohan on board they cleaned the script up.

Sometimes roles change.


Svech is still going to happen though.

 

[Ole Gil]

That's implying that Skinner vs Svechnikov was an either-or proposition. It wasn't.

We went in to this season with a clear hole in our top 6, whether at center or at LW.
Lindholm -> Svechnikov
Ryan -> Necas
Stempniak -> Ferland
Nordstrom -> Foegele or whoever, they won't be as big a black hole
Zykov -> LW Hole

We basically opened that LW hole back up because... why? I mean I just don't get it. It might make sense if we go out and sign Rick Nash or if we trade Faulk for Saad or Galagher+ but if we don't go out and fill that roster hole? Is Jeff REALLY that much of a negative value that replacing him with Saarela or Maenalaenen is a good idea?

Almost everything else they've done this summer has made at least some sense to me: letting Ryan walk because we have Necas coming in, bringing in de Haan after trading Hanifin, even taking a flyer on Mrazek on a one-year deal. The two things that haven't at all are trading Skinner without getting back a replacement and not buying out Scott Darling off the worst season any goalies has had in the league this decade.

I said it earlier, Jeff Skinner is the answer to "How desperate are you for goals?" When Derek Ryan is your 3C and getting PP time, things are pretty desperate. They just aren't anymore. We don't need one guy who tries to do everything at the expense of everything and everyone else. However you want to juggle the names, the Canes are going to have some real skill on the 3rd line. The team no longer needs a gimmick.

As for the hole at LW in the top 6, it wasn't going to be Skinner, so that doesn't really have anything to do with him leaving. But Rod has 8 very good options for the top 9, with Rask/Zykov/Foegele/Saarela/Manealaenen/Wallmark/Roy/Kuokkenen/PDG/Gauthier and probably a couple others needing to fill 1 spot. Rask has scored 20 in the NHL. Zykov/Foegele/Saarala all just had big years in the AHL. Gauthier is coming into his 20yo season.

If the Canes knew they were getting decent goaltending, I can't imagine being pessimistic going into this season.

 

[Svechhammer]

Yes. Yes he did. One of the first public statements he made was "I'm going to spend whatever it takes to make this team competitive again."

He said he would spend to compete, but it would be for the right players. Skinner wasn't a part of that equation.

Maybe it was mentioned before, but with the Skinner trade, every player drafted in the top 10 of the 2010 draft, with the exception of Granlund, has now been traded. Kind of bizarre.

I don't think it's bizarre. I think it's completely indicative about how poorly our first round pick selections have gone the last decade.

 

[Highest Boss]

Mean Girls was originally conceived as a sex comedy but once they got the squeaky-clean Lindsey Lohan on board they cleaned the script up.

Sometimes roles change.


Svech is still going to happen though.

On Wednesdays we wear... whatever that new logo is.

 

[rainband]

I don't understand any narrative that starts with "Last September everyone thought we were a playoff team for the foreseeable future and look now, our team is awful." How can anyone argue that our skaters aren't better than last year? We iced Ryan, Stempniak, Nordstrom, Jooris, Kruger, PDG, etc. and had a 2nd pairing of Hanifin-Faulk with Dahlbeck getting quite a few games. The notion that we were a likely playoff team at the start of last season was built on one completely faulty premise: Scott Darling was going to be an above-average starting goaltender. The reason we've gone from "the rebuild is finally over!" to "why are we starting a new rebuild?" is simply a realistic appraisal of our goaltending situation. Our goaltending will almost certainly not be worse than last year (in actuality, not in late-summer dreamland) and our skaters getting the majority of the icetime look to be objectively much better (even if you are a Skinner fan, which I have ceased to be over the years).

 

[the halleJOKEL]

did i just step into the upside-down version of hfcanes?? did you all trade accounts or something while i wasn't looking

wish traverse city and training camp were starting soon so we would have something to talk about that wasn't whatever the past 5 pages were.

 

[Svechhammer]

And I have still yet to see anyone propose any way the goaltending could have been fixed during this wringing of hands. The best name on the market that was talked about in here was Grubauer, a career backup with all the same qualifications that Khudobin, Lack, and Darling had. We would have had the same questions going into next year with him that we do with Darling and Mrazek. And nobody else was willing to part with anyone halfway decent. The crop of FA goalies was routinely posted and derided in here last year when anyone would say "well, at least we might be able to fix this in the off-season" and when that crappy crop happens, we're now saying Waddell and Dundon are tanking the franchise. Francis gambled on Darling, gave him a big contract he hadn't earned, it blew up in our face, and now we are dealing with the consequences.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

There was no "fixing" the goaltending, true. But we've somehow made it worse. A Ward/Darling duo is better than a Darling/Mrazek one. Because out of the three of them, Ward is the least likely to shit the bed in horrendeous ways on any given night.

We've gone from "Well, if Darling really is that bad, at least we've got a goaltender that's going to give the team a chance to win every night" to "Well, if Darling really is that bad, better hope Mrazek doesn't repeat last year as well!"

 

[WreckingCrew]

And I have still yet to see anyone propose any way the goaltending could have been fixed during this wringing of hands. The best name on the market that was talked about in here was Grubauer, a career backup with all the same qualifications that Khudobin, Lack, and Darling had. We would have had the same questions going into next year with him that we do with Darling and Mrazek. And nobody else was willing to part with anyone halfway decent. The crop of FA goalies was routinely posted and derided in here last year when anyone would say "well, at least we might be able to fix this in the off-season" and when that crappy crop happens, we're now saying Waddell and Dundon are tanking the franchise. Francis gambled on Darling, gave him a big contract he hadn't earned, it blew up in our face, and now we are dealing with the consequences.

I agree that we really had few options with goalies...I think most were expecting us to do a 0ackage trade around Skinner/Faulk for a 3rd goalie option. As we're seeing though, maybe their down years really did tank their value, and it's hard to shake loose a decent goalie, especially a starter or a solid, cheapish backup-with-starter-potential. Maybe DWTD and crew are waiting to see if an option drops to waivers for our 3rd option? I could see us taking a swing at whichever of McBackup or Sparks hits waivers from Toronto, otherwise we were kinda lied to about the 3 competing goalies thing. That said, with Ned/Booth/Helvig do we have room for another goalie? (I guess we could loan one out)

 

[Stickpucker]

RE people talking about playoffs...

In our division I think it's obvious both NY teams are taking a step back. Some people said they think NJ is a better team. I think they are a team due for regression. Last year Schneider wasn't very good and Kinkaid bailed them out. I'm not sure how long that can go on for. I'm also not impressed with their defense at all. I think we can be better than them. The Flyers are also a really young team that doesn't have a good goalie like us. I like their forwards more but our defense more I don't think we should be closer to them.

Pitts
Wash
CBJ - UFA Bob & Panarin could change their outlook a lot
Flyers/Canes/Devils
NYR
NYI

Some people mentioned they thought Buffalo had a shot at being as good as us next year? I don't see it at all....they lost ROR and added a bunch of mediocre depth forwards and Skinner who will probably be on their 3rd line too by season end. The Atlantic just isn't very good other than 3 teams and I think we have a shot this year....it's really hard to say because we have....like....10 X factors. So much has changed and we have so many young players that we don't know what to pencil them in for it's really going to be a crazy year.

Will McGinn hit 10 posts?
I don't see how Svechnikov won't be at least a 20g 30a player....have you seen that guy play? His hands, his vision, his speed, his physicality?....the guy has like no weaknesses.
Will Necas be better than Victor Rask?
Hell will Rask heal from his shoulder surgery and be a 20g 30a player again? ....that is worth a lot more than Ryan at 3C
Will Aho continue to grow? I'd bet yes
Will TT still want to not be shown up by Aho? I'm guessing yes
Will RBA be a decent HC? I have no clue
Will Mrazek be good? I have no clue but he was damn good as a start in Detroit I think most of his problems now are mental.
Will Mrazek have a beastly season and then become our new bought out warrior poet? No clue....that could be bad
Will all these new Dmen we brought in mesh? No clue
Why didn't we trade for ROR....something around Skinner and futures? No clue...
Will Zykov play as well to start the season as he did ending in the NHL? I think so....he has a very NHL style game to be the next Holmstrom or Hornqvist for us which is a 20g 30a player (basically what Skinner was while being more useful on the PP and bigger and meaner)
WTH will we get out of Ferland?

The point being....we have had a ton of change in the last few months and I don't have a clue what to expect which is much nicer than the improve by 1" at a time while others are improving by 10". We went up 9" down 6 up 3 down 5 up 4....etc....ad nauseum.

On topic...I wish we had a deal around ROR and Skinner with Buffalo instead of Pu. I'm really starting to get excited for Zykov this season.

 

[WreckingCrew]

And I have still yet to see anyone propose any way the goaltending could have been fixed during this wringing of hands. The best name on the market that was talked about in here was Grubauer, a career backup with all the same qualifications that Khudobin, Lack, and Darling had. We would have had the same questions going into next year with him that we do with Darling and Mrazek. And nobody else was willing to part with anyone halfway decent. The crop of FA goalies was routinely posted and derided in here last year when anyone would say "well, at least we might be able to fix this in the off-season" and when that crappy crop happens, we're now saying Waddell and Dundon are tanking the franchise. Francis gambled on Darling, gave him a big contract he hadn't earned, it blew up in our face, and now we are dealing with the consequences.

I agree that we really had few options with goalies...I think most were expecting us to do a 0ackage trade around Skinner/Faulk for a 3rd goalie option. As we're seeing though, maybe their down years really did tank their value, and it's hard to shake loose a decent goalie, especially a starter or a solid, cheapish backup-with-starter-potential. Maybe DWTD and crew are waiting to see if an option drops to waivers for our 3rd option? I could see us taking a swing at whichever of McBackup or Sparks hits waivers from Toronto, otherwise we were kinda lied to about the 3 competing goalies thing. That said, with Ned/Booth/Helvig do we have room for another goalie? (I guess we could loan one out)

 

[Stickpucker]

dbl post

 

[Stickpucker]

The personnel decisions this offseason seem a little odd, unless the system is going to be more conservative. The team needed to add more skill to the lineup up front to take a step forward in the Bill Peters’ system; the attacking, speed-based game the team has played in recent years hasn’t translated to anything other than good fanalytics. It works for Tampa and Pittsburgh because of their skill level.

A more conservative system that sees a less aggressive forecheck and saggier gaps by the defensemen in the NZ may better insulate the goalies. That would result in more shot attempts against and worse advanced stats, but limit the rush chances that lead to the breakdowns that result in GA. A below average offense, but with a strong defense can work. The difference in talent level between the Canes and say the Blues before the Tarasenko breakout is not significant.

To nitpick I don't think the Canes had an aggressive "forecheck" they had a very big cycle game but the second they gave up the puck they flew the zone and didn't pressure the puck carrier much. Almost the opposite of a Lavi system.

 

[geehaad]

As for the hole at LW in the top 6, it wasn't going to be Skinner, so that doesn't really have anything to do with him leaving.

I agree with what you're saying, but I'd posit that the fact that Skinner wasn't a LW in the top 6 had much to do with his departure. Had he been able to play on the 1st or 2nd line's LW, he would've been worth the north-of-$5M salary his stats command. Regardless of the particular aspect that kept him out of the top 6 -- his defense, his effort, his lone maverick playing style, or any other characteristic of Jeff Skinner -- suffice it to say that he simply wasn't, and a north-of-$5M 3rd-line LW is a problem for a budget/rebuilding team that needs to be solved. Therefore, it had everything to do with him leaving. (I'm probably being pedantic or whatever, but I just couldn't quell my urge to be That Guy...probably because I'm an asshole)

Beyond that, folks can then be unhappy with the return, but that's a separate gripe...Jeff Skinner had to go, therefore the goal-scoring has to come from somewhere else now. You may not believe management has addressed that problem yet, or fret that they won't, but there's nothing wrong with vacating a spot first before filling it. If they don't add a forward to pointedly take Skinner's place, it could mean that management is making room for a currently-held player that they believe slots into the 3rd line LW spot, and Skinner's 24 goals will be filled by currently-held players (as others here have posited with sensible accounting of the goal-scoring potential of the new guys). It's entirely possible that they are using their expertise in hockey in making this decision, and we have no basis yet for whether or not to trust that.

I think the mistake would be in making wholesale decisions about your fandom by placing huge amount of weight on the initial decisions this entirely-new management group makes.
Requiring that they do something miraculous this upcoming season (make the playoffs) in order to prevent you from walking away is a bit...drastic. They will make mistakes -- that's a given -- so I see it as unwise because you're nearly guaranteeing that this season will be your last as a fan of this team. I can see not renewing season tickets...totally understandable. It's the completely walking away piece that doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[geehaad]

(double-post, please delete...HFBoards was having some problems earlier, obviously)

 

[geehaad]

(double-post, please delete...HFBoards was having some problems earlier, obviously)

(and apparently still is...!)

 

[CandyCanes]

I’ve never seen so many essays written on this board before. I’m hungover and about 15 pages behind on this thread, don’t think I’ll be catching up.

Who wants to fill me in on what happened? I’m guessing the world is still falling and a few more Pu Pu jokes have been made? And a couple of we will miss you Skinner post too ay?

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

I’ve never seen so many essays written on this board before. I’m hungover and about 15 pages behind on this thread, don’t think I’ll be catching up.

Who wants to fill me in on what happened? I’m guessing the world is still falling and a few more Pu Pu jokes have been made? And a couple of we will miss you Skinner post too ay?

It’s been a lot of mostly pointless bickering. You didn’t miss much.

 

[Stickpucker]

I would've been fine with Faulk + Skinner for ROR and I think Buffalo would've been down since they also could use a RD and had the cap space. I think we lose on value but it fills a hole and leaves us in a better situation than we are now.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I’ve never seen so many essays written on this board before. I’m hungover and about 15 pages behind on this thread, don’t think I’ll be catching up.

Who wants to fill me in on what happened? I’m guessing the world is still falling and a few more Pu Pu jokes have been made? And a couple of we will miss you Skinner post too ay?

 

[Stickpucker]

did i just step into the upside-down version of hfcanes?? did you all trade accounts or something while i wasn't looking

wish traverse city and training camp were starting soon so we would have something to talk about that wasn't whatever the past 5 pages were.

Even you have flipped roles senor.

You're supposed to say something unrelated out of the blue in broken english:

ahem: "Shoot goal win gaem good skater big strong"

 

[Stickpucker]

And I have still yet to see anyone propose any way the goaltending could have been fixed during this wringing of hands. The best name on the market that was talked about in here was Grubauer, a career backup with all the same qualifications that Khudobin, Lack, and Darling had. We would have had the same questions going into next year with him that we do with Darling and Mrazek. And nobody else was willing to part with anyone halfway decent. The crop of FA goalies was routinely posted and derided in here last year when anyone would say "well, at least we might be able to fix this in the off-season" and when that crappy crop happens, we're now saying Waddell and Dundon are tanking the franchise. Francis gambled on Darling, gave him a big contract he hadn't earned, it blew up in our face, and now we are dealing with the consequences.

I would've prefered to buy out Darling and ice Lehner - Mrazek. Lehner is consistently average and Mrazek has all the talent in the world if he can get his shit together. A lot of people might not see that as an upgrade but I would've been comfortable seeing league average goaltending from that tandem.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

sorry for the off brand posting i will try better next post

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I don't think it's bizarre. I think it's completely indicative about how poorly our first round pick selections have gone the last decade.

I think you misunderstood my post. I wasn't talking about OUR picks. I'm saying that Hall, Seguin, Gudbranson, Johansen, Neiderreiter, Connolly, Skinner, Burmistrov and McIlrath have all been traded. Not left because of being a UFA as Tavares did, they were all traded which I think is a bit odd. Maybe it's because there were no "generational" talents, but I still found it interesting especially looking at other drafts around that one

2005: Crosby, Price, Bourdon (death)
2006: Toews, Backstrom, Okposo
2007: Kane, Alzner, Couture, Hickey (waivers)
2008: Stamkos, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Bailey
2009: Taveres, Hedman, OEL, Kadri, Glennie
2010: Granlund
2011: RNH, Landeskog, Hurberdau, Scheifele, Couturier, Brodin
2012: Murray, Rielly, H. Lindholm, Dumba, Trouba, Koekkoek
2013: MacKinnon, Barkov, Monahan, Nurse, Ristolainen, Horvat, Nishuchkin

EDIT: Check that, I think Burmistrov may have been claimed off waivers and not traded. I recall WPG trying to trade him, but not sure how he moved.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

dear hcanes please start playing hockey soon so we can bitch about real bad things instead of pretend bad thing

 

[tarheelhockey]

I agree with what you're saying, but I'd posit that the fact that Skinner wasn't a LW in the top 6 had much to do with his departure. Had he been able to play on the 1st or 2nd line's LW, he would've been worth the north-of-$5M salary his stats command. Regardless of the particular aspect that kept him out of the top 6 -- his defense, his effort, his lone maverick playing style, or any other characteristic of Jeff Skinner -- suffice it to say that he simply wasn't, and a north-of-$5M 3rd-line LW is a problem for a budget/rebuilding team that needs to be solved. Therefore, it had everything to do with him leaving. (I'm probably being pedantic or whatever, but I just couldn't quell my urge to be That Guy...probably because I'm an *******)

Beyond that, folks can then be unhappy with the return, but that's a separate gripe...Jeff Skinner had to go, therefore the goal-scoring has to come from somewhere else now. You may not believe management has addressed that problem yet, or fret that they won't, but there's nothing wrong with vacating a spot first before filling it. If they don't add a forward to pointedly take Skinner's place, it could mean that management is making room for a currently-held player that they believe slots into the 3rd line LW spot, and Skinner's 24 goals will be filled by currently-held players (as others here have posited with sensible accounting of the goal-scoring potential of the new guys). It's entirely possible that they are using their expertise in hockey in making this decision, and we have no basis yet for whether or not to trust that.

I think the mistake would be in making wholesale decisions about your fandom by placing huge amount of weight on the initial decisions this entirely-new management group makes.
Requiring that they do something miraculous this upcoming season (make the playoffs) in order to prevent you from walking away is a bit...drastic. They will make mistakes -- that's a given -- so I see it as unwise because you're nearly guaranteeing that this season will be your last as a fan of this team. I can see not renewing season tickets...totally understandable. It's the completely walking away piece that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Because at some point it really does become a Stockholm Syndrome-ish relationship where every move can be defended one way or another.

“We moved out one of our most talented players and got nothing back, but maybe we’re making room for someone already in the system!” <— there’s no valid argument against this because it’s based on blind faith on something that may or may not exist.

“Those core young players from a previous rebuild were a bunch of disappointments. We couldn’t win with those guys! It’s time to cut bait and move on to THIS group of core young players!” <— the mantra of a team that has multiple failed rebuilds in a row. There’s no way to argue against it because again, it’s based in blind faith that the next batch of draft picks is somehow more special than the last one (which was sold as being just as special when they were drafted).

“Yeah, the goalie situation is ****ed beyond all recognition, but we’ve already fired the guy responsible for that. The new guy can’t be held to blame for old mistakes.” <— this is why CEOs get replaced after 5 years. Stockholders have a bottomless pool of patience as long as they see people getting fired and replaced.

“Sure the roster looks bad, but this head coach may be able to get way more out of them than we see on paper. He has no track record whatsoever, so the only way to find out is to give him 3 years to implement his system and grow the young guys into it” <— this can be repeated endlessly if your coaching hires are Muller, Peters, Brind’Amour, etc.

“Look at all the money we’ve saved! As soon as we get better players, we’ll have all the flexibility in the world to hold onto them forever.” <— presumes that we will actually get better players at some point, and that this batch of young talent won’t be branded LOSERS and dumped at the end of their RFA contracts just like the last batch. Again, blind faith in promises of an uncertain future outcome.


These exact same arguments have been circulating on this board like **** in a toilet bowl for a full decade. It’s a waste of our time and our resources to rehash it again for another 5 years while the braintrust figures out what a winning hockey team actually looks like. Despite what some people seem to think, the organization literally does OWE this fanbase a better product than this. We held up our end of the bargain for 10 years. Now it’s the Carolina Hurricanes’ turn to hold up theirs. To do their jobs, do what they need to do to put up a playoff-worthy roster. I don’t care if Dundon has to spend $10 million to do it. That’s the annual cost of one good player nowadays. If he doesn’t want to do that, he shouldn’t own a god damned NHL team and he certainly shouldn’t be running his mouth about culture changes.