Confirmed with Link: Skinner traded to Buffalo for 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and prospect

[AeroFishOne]

In this particular conversation, I wasn't the one who brought that up. That was brought up by Aero last page. But that being said, some of the moves (or lack thereof) and statements from Waddell are a bit wonky in that regard.

Waddell had no interest in the job "until we won the lottery." He made a statement that they probably wouldn't have traded Skinner if we hadn't drafted Svech. And failing to address either weakness of last season (and likely making the offense worse) doesn't scream "playoff push."

I really hope they don't take a step back and decide to blow it up again. It's a stupid idea. But I don't trust Waddell or Dundon enough to believe it's not within the realm of possibility.

What part of the conversation. I’ve never said they are doing or should do a full rebuild. A full rebuild is dumping Skinner, Hanifan, Lindholm, Aho and Teravainen for picks and prospects and not signing a top 4 defenseman to 4.5 mil for 4 years. Just because i don’t think last years team wasn’t going anywhere in the playoffs also doesn’t mean I advocate a full rebuild. There’s a difference between a full rebuild and a retool. This team needed a retool. This team really hasn’t been through a complete full rebuild.

 

[Moosetache]

What’s REALLY eating at me about the trade is Buffalo sitting on three first rounders THIS YEAR....and we gave them a 30 goal Kane replacement they had admitted to NEEDING to replace. We gave them an Eichel linemate. Who freaking ASKED to go to Buffalo if he couldn’t go to Toronto. Who asks to go to Buffalo? And no first rounder when they had three. That will lead to me referring to this moment five years from now.

Tough to ask for much if Buffalo was the only place he would go. If he said, "I'll only waive to go to Toronto or Buffalo" and we all know Toronto doesn't have the cap space, what are you supposed to ask for???

 

[Ole Gil]

And is going to be relying on at least 3-4 rookies to do so?

If you had to pick between having Svechnikov or Skinner in the lineup for just next year, who would you go with?

Or Necas vs. Derek Ryan?

Or Zykov vs. Stempniak?

Or Foegele vs. Nordstrom?

Yes, they're rookies, but only Svechnikov is replacing someone that's more than an NHL plug. And it's not like Skinner is reliable. He put up 18g 13a a few seasons ago. Everybody worrying about losing Skinner is assuming magical 30+g Skinner which you can't do. Because bad 24 goal skinner we got this year, or disastrous 18 goal (31point) skinner from a few years back are just as likely.

 

[Moosetache]

Overall, I’d say it’s been a D off-season which comes up to a C+ because we added Svechnikov. This is entirely contingent on the idea that he’s the next Eric Staal-caliber talent for this organization.
.

You've got to be kidding me..... Before this trade it was a B+ offseason...after this trade its back to a B....I actually think the Canes are better without Skinner, but was also hoping for more of a return.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

If you had to pick between having Svechnikov or Skinner in the lineup for just next year, who would you go with?

Or Necas vs. Derek Ryan?

Or Zykov vs. Stempniak?

Or Foegele vs. Nordstrom?

.

For next season?

Ryan over Necas, based on on-ice play. But not at the contract he got. I think Necas is super skilled, but I’m worried about him getting the Brandon Sutter treatment, and getting thrown to the wolves before he’s physically ready.

The other two easily go for the kids. I don’t know if you compared those specific players on purpose, but Zykov score as many goals in 10 games as Stempniak did in 37. Foegele scores twice in two games, Nordstrom scores twice in 75, and I’m pretty sure one of those was an empty netter.

 

[Canes]

Necas has really bulked up this year so I think it'll be difficult to give him the Brandon Sutter treatment. Sutter still looks like a gaunt beanstalk to this day. Not to mention Necas is a more talented player than both Ryan and Sutter already. That doesn't necessarily mean he'll be as productive as either right away but I'm not worried about his physique quite as much anymore.

 

[Moosetache]

For next season?

Ryan over Necas, based on on-ice play. But not at the contract he got. I think Necas is super skilled, but I’m worried about him getting the Brandon Sutter treatment, and getting thrown to the wolves before he’s physically ready.

The other two easily go for the kids. I don’t know if you compared those specific players on purpose, but Zykov score as many goals in 10 games as Stempniak did in 37. Foegele scores twice in two games, Nordstrom scores twice in 75, and I’m pretty sure one of those was an empty netter.

I mean this with the utmost respect and care and I am sure you are a wonderful person who would be great to have a beer with.........

but you should be banned from posting for a month for saying that.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

I mean, I’d love nothing more than to be wrong on that one, and I think Necas will wind up a better player as soon as 19-20, I’m just pessimistic as hell given our overall results over the last decade.

I realize they aren’t entirely similar, given that Necas has a couple seasons playing in a pro league and Sutter got thrown to the wolves basically right out of junior, but excuse the hell out of me for thinking the guy who’s got a decade of college/pro experience might have a better season then a skinny rookie. If Necas can match Ryan’s point totals from this past season we should all be thrilled.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

I’m blown away by the negativity in this thread. Or, I guess, the overall outlook by some posters. Posters I agree with quite frequently.

I think the team is better as a result of this offseason. Yeah, some of it is unproveable.... but they’re better .

 

[tarheelhockey]

You've got to be kidding me..... Before this trade it was a B+ offseason...after this trade its back to a B....I actually think the Canes are better without Skinner, but was also hoping for more of a return.

How the hell is it a B+ off-season when you do nothing to address your two huge, glaring weaknesses?

They made a decent trade and a decent UFA signing. Nice job. They also ended up with an even worse goalie tandem and lost one of the highest ES goal scorers in the league for nothing current, while deciding that a rookie is the solution at center. If that’s a B+, what’s a D? Relocation?

 

[My Special Purpose]

I’m blown away by the negativity in this thread. Or, I guess, the overall outlook by some posters. Posters I agree with quite frequently.

I think the team is better as a result of this offseason. Yeah, some of it is unproveable.... but they’re better .

I was just coming here to post exactly this. It's really stunning to me. Andrei Svechnikov is a better hockey player than Jeff Skinner *right now*. Martin Necas is a better hockey player than Derek Ryan *right now*. It may not translate to counting numbers directly, but we will win more hockey games with Svech/Necas than with Skinner/Ryan. And the only reason Foegele and Zykov aren't more proven is that Francis/Peters kept 'em down too long. Our defense is stunning, and I know our goalies were awful last season, but we're far from the only team in the league with questionable goaltending.

The negativity is crazy. It's not like we're messing with something that worked. As Einstein said, we can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. We're getting rid of guys who were on cruise control in favor of guys who are going to go through walls. That, in and of itself, is a win in my book.

 

[My Special Purpose]

How the hell is it a B+ off-season when you do nothing to address your two huge, glaring weaknesses?

IMO, you're making way, way too much of the "two huge, glaring weaknesses." The *team* is better. The attitude is better. The work ethic is better. The accountability is better. The overall talent level is higher. This isn't Strat-O-Matic. We don't match up center vs. center and goalie vs. goalie. We put 20 guys out against 20 other guys with their own set of issues (many of which are goaltending).

 

[DaveG]

If you had to pick between having Svechnikov or Skinner in the lineup for just next year, who would you go with?

Or Necas vs. Derek Ryan?

Or Zykov vs. Stempniak?

Or Foegele vs. Nordstrom?

Yes, they're rookies, but only Svechnikov is replacing someone that's more than an NHL plug. And it's not like Skinner is reliable. He put up 18g 13a a few seasons ago. Everybody worrying about losing Skinner is assuming magical 30+g Skinner which you can't do. Because bad 24 goal skinner we got this year, or disastrous 18 goal (31point) skinner from a few years back are just as likely.

That's implying that Skinner vs Svechnikov was an either-or proposition. It wasn't.

We went in to this season with a clear hole in our top 6, whether at center or at LW.
Lindholm -> Svechnikov
Ryan -> Necas
Stempniak -> Ferland
Nordstrom -> Foegele or whoever, they won't be as big a black hole
Zykov -> LW Hole

We basically opened that LW hole back up because... why? I mean I just don't get it. It might make sense if we go out and sign Rick Nash or if we trade Faulk for Saad or Galagher+ but if we don't go out and fill that roster hole? Is Jeff REALLY that much of a negative value that replacing him with Saarela or Maenalaenen is a good idea?

Almost everything else they've done this summer has made at least some sense to me: letting Ryan walk because we have Necas coming in, bringing in de Haan after trading Hanifin, even taking a flyer on Mrazek on a one-year deal. The two things that haven't at all are trading Skinner without getting back a replacement and not buying out Scott Darling off the worst season any goalies has had in the league this decade.

 

[My Special Purpose]

We basically opened that LW hole back up because... why? I mean I just don't get it. It might make sense if we go out and sign Rick Nash or if we trade Faulk for Saad or Galagher+ but if we don't go out and fill that roster hole? Is Jeff REALLY that much of a negative value that replacing him with Saarela or Maenalaenen is a good idea?

This take just completely shocks me. I expect this from others, but not you. If we go out and sign Nash it makes sense?!?!? What?!?! Signing Nash so we can write his name into our top-6 is roughly equivalent to lighting cash on fire. He's been a shell of his former self for several seasons, now, and he's *not even sure he wants to play the game anymore!* Seriously, step back from the keyboard, Dave.

You don't win in this league with names. And I don't have to tell you this. Skinner was a name. Did we watch the same hockey games last season? To say the guy was one-dimensional is to give him the benefit of the doubt. He was ineffective. Period. He wasn't a good hockey player. He was a lousy example for young players. He was *not* a leader. He was *clearly* part of a problem that has this franchise struggling for relevance.

And Rick Nash isn't going to fix that. Jeez. What the he!! is going on here?

 

[Canes]

How the hell is it a B+ off-season when you do nothing to address your two huge, glaring weaknesses?

They made a decent trade and a decent UFA signing. Nice job. They also ended up with an even worse goalie tandem and lost one of the highest ES goal scorers in the league for nothing current, while deciding that a rookie is the solution at center. If that’s a B+, what’s a D? Relocation?

I can't believe that I'm actually becoming somewhat of an apologist for Waddell, someone who I was clearly unhappy with being hired, but I'm not sure how we could have really solved the goaltending or center (or acquiring a 30 goal winger to replace Skinner) situation without giving up assets that just replace one weakness with another. We apparently tried to get Grubauer, but Washington wanted to trade him out of the division. And even as a Skinner fan, I understand why some are underwhelmed with the return but he was either going to leave in UFA or be extremely overpaid for what he brings (his consistency and defensive weaknesses are REAL problems going forward if he's going to command 6-7+ million dollars long term). His NTC royally screwed us on a potential return as well, thanks to Rutherford. Also having Darling and Rask's albatross contracts (thanks Ron Francis), along with several young players due to get paid soon screwed us financially as a budget team.

The thing I am most disappointed in is our goalie situation but that's one of the most difficult things to improve upon. There is no easy solution. I wish we could have got a better return on Skinner and had the financial flexibility to spend money to bring in a top forward or goalie but unfortunately the previous two GMs kinda screwed us on those things. We gambled on Darling big time and unfortunately that might be the main thing holding us back until we can fix it. Trading Skinner for poor value and not bringing a replacement is nothing compared to that, IMO.

 

[tarheelhockey]

IMO, you're making way, way too much of the "two huge, glaring weaknesses." The *team* is better. The attitude is better. The work ethic is better. The accountability is better. The overall talent level is higher. This isn't Strat-O-Matic. We don't match up center vs. center and goalie vs. goalie. We put 20 guys out against 20 other guys with their own set of issues (many of which are goaltending).

I’ll believe this when I see them actually go out and play better hockey as a team. On paper, this team’s “talent level” is higher in the sense that we look at guys like Svechnikov, Necas, Zykov and Foegele and assume that they must be on their way to a better showing than a Derek Ryan or Lee Stempniak. We assume that Ferland and Martinook must be harder to play against than a Nordstrom or Lindholm. But odds are, we’re wrong about at least a couple of those guys. Odds are, by the end of the season we’re looking at a couple of those roster slots as “holes” in need of a solution halfway through the season. That’s how this always goes, every year. Hardly ever does any team bat 1.000 with new players, and new players make up close to half our lineup at the moment.

The X factor is coaching. We have absolutely no idea how Brind’Amour is going to be as a head coach, because he’s never done it before. But common sense tells you a guy who has never been a HC at any level is probably not going to be even an average HC in his first season. So again, odds are the coaching is not going to save this team from itself. We’re in a situation where barring a Vegas-like outcome where RBA somehow gets maximum output from everybody, this team actually is not any better than they were last year. That’s just the harsh reality of this situation, as has been borne out in the past several seasons when we throw young players and rookie coaches in there with a naive belief that they’re going to just Attitude their way to success.

If I’m another team in this division, my mouth is watering at every CAR date on the calendar. This is clearly the worst team in the division on paper, other than maybe the Islanders. Again, I’ll be happy to eat my crow if these guys pull a playoff season out of their ass, but that is incredibly unlikely for a team that doesn’t even know who’s playing 1C, has horrible goaltending, is leaning on U20 players to lead their offense, and has a rookie head coach.

 

[bleedgreen]

I actually think the moves this off season aside from the return from this trade are pretty good. If you were going to trade Hanifin and Lindy, you needed at least a player like Hamilton coming back. It addresses a need imo and doesn’t come off as “change for the sake of change”. The DeHaan signing is well done in my eyes, and completes the sentence created by the acquisition of Hamilton - and addresses the other half of the same need.

The Skinner return is obviously disappointing to me. They had three first rounders and they needed a guy like Skinner. I don’t think Patches was on their radar so this was a game of chicken. We blinked because we just want it over with and the return had gotten into the bottom range of what they wanted. This move to me DOES feel like “change for changes sake”, which has been what Waddell has been prattling on about how they won’t do. They wanted Skinner out for the sake of change and took what they could instead of waiting for a better return maybe later.

I am disappointed overall about the way things have gone, but I don’t view anything that’s happened as a really bad move.

I agree with Tarheel though, especially on goaltending. It’s an obvious hole and they haven’t fixed it, making it seem like a potentially wasted season. To be fair, I think Darling can improve and Mrazek has raw talent.

 

[AeroFishOne]

I’ve heard Rick Nash multiple times come up but he’s most likely retiring or going some where he has a high chance to win or right back to Columbus is one thought. If he was willing to sign at a good price, I’d take a chance but the dudes last really good year was in 2014-2015 when he had 69 points and has since averaged in the mid 30s in points since that time. He’s also has only played in more than 70 games twice in 6 seasons since he was traded from Columbus. He’s a good but declining player but Concussion issues was what was making him think about retiring.

I don’t understand why we keep rehashing the Scott Darling buyout. Throwing money at everything is not going to solve this teams goalie problem during the 2018 and most likely 2019 off season. If there was a clear cut number one on the market willing to sign with us (big if considering how in demand they are by more attractive destinations) You absolutely cut Darling. Since no clear #1 on the market you save your millions and and try again next year, hope that he turns it around or hope that someone’s rookie steps up and a team makes their number 1 available. Didn’t appear to many teams were willing to do that this year.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I’ll believe this when I see them actually go out and play better hockey as a team. On paper, this team’s “talent level” is higher in the sense that we look at guys like Svechnikov, Necas, Zykov and Foegele and assume that they must be on their way to a better showing than a Derek Ryan or Lee Stempniak. We assume that Ferland and Martinook must be harder to play against than a Nordstrom or Lindholm. But odds are, we’re wrong about at least a couple of those guys.

Give me an example. Who among Svechnikov, Necas, Ferland and Martinook are going to be less effective hockey players than Derek Ryan, Lee Stempniak, Joakim Nordstrom ... (i.e. three of the 10 least effective players in the NHL last season based on win shares)?

 

[tarheelhockey]

If we need an injection of positive vibes, two things I think aren’t a total **** fest at this point:

1) McGinn could possibly take a big step offensively. I’m not holding my breath but the potential is there for him to contribute a lot more, and that would help offset the loss of Skinner.

2) They could still trade Faulk for something that helps address the gaping holes in the roster. Granted that puts McKeown or Fox in the lineup, but at least maybe we get a C or a real goalie and can proceed from the standpoint of having a complete starting lineup to put on the ice.

 

[DaveG]

This take just completely shocks me. I expect this from others, but not you. If we go out and sign Nash it makes sense?!?!? What?!?! Signing Nash so we can write his name into our top-6 is roughly equivalent to lighting cash on fire. He's been a shell of his former self for several seasons, now, and he's *not even sure he wants to play the game anymore!* Seriously, step back from the keyboard, Dave.

You don't win in this league with names. And I don't have to tell you this. Skinner was a name. Did we watch the same hockey games last season? To say the guy was one-dimensional is to give him the benefit of the doubt. He was ineffective. Period. He wasn't a good hockey player. He was a lousy example for young players. He was *not* a leader. He was *clearly* part of a problem that has this franchise struggling for relevance.

And Rick Nash isn't going to fix that. Jeez. What the he!! is going on here?

Don't get me wrong, Nash wouldn't be the preference. And no, I wouldn't have him in the top 6. He'd be 3rd line, Ferland or McGinn takes the top 6 spot and hopefully runs with it. The Faulk trade return is still my preference if it's any kind of roster player capable of producing (Saad, Gallagher+, Johnson type return)

And you're right, it's possible that Skinner doesn't bounce back next season and proves to be ineffective again. On the other hand we know how effective a motivated Skinner can be and I have to think a Skinner in a contract year is going to play like he gives a shit.

Maybe it's just the specter of breaking the NHL record for amount of seasons without the playoffs messing with me but frankly if I had to choose between making the playoffs this coming season followed by Skinner Tavaresing us, or breaking that record, I take the playoffs even if it were to result in us getting absolutely slaughtered by Tampa, Pittsburgh, Washington, or Toronto in the first round.

Last thing I want is for us to continue down the shitfest path we've been going down and are seemingly pointed down without any kind of respite. I had 2 decades of that shit following the Pirates, don't need it in anything else I follow.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Give me an example. Who among Svechnikov, Necas, Ferland and Martinook are going to be less effective hockey players than Derek Ryan, Lee Stempniak, Joakim Nordstrom ... (i.e. three of the 10 least effective players in the NHL last season based on win shares)?

What I’m saying is we can argue this into the dirt in the off-season, but the odds are pretty heavily slanted against 100% of our new players coming in and succeeding. That doesn’t happen, and especially when you’ve got a ****load of transition and uncertainty happening at every level and the new guys are having to carve out roles for themselves rather than just stepping in with a clearly-defined job to do.

If I had to guess for the sake of conversation? Ferland is unlikely to look as good offensively on this team, which would make him another late-career Ruutu type. Martinook is a 4th line grinder whose impact is likely to be negligible no matter what happens. I choose not to project bad outcomes onto Svechnikov or Necas because I don’t want to even think about what this roster looks like if one of those guys struggles.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I did a player vs. player breakdown for us vs. New Jersey. I think this is useless, but you guys seem to be intent on comparing lineup spot to lineup spot and not taking the entire picture into account.

The Devils are a consensus playoff team right now, despite being the only team with a lower payroll than us. So tell me, how are we so much worse than they are?

Taylor Hall vs. Sebastian Aho (edge NJ)
Nico Hischier vs. Andrei Svechnikov (edge CAR)
Kyle Palmieri vs. Teuvo Teravainen (edge even)
Marcus Johansson vs. Martin Necas (edge NJ)
Pavel Zacha vs. Valentin Zykov (edge NJ)
Jesper Bratt vs. Micheal Ferland (edge CAR)
Travis Zajac vs. Jordan Staal (edge CAR)
Blake Coleman vs. Brock McGinn (edge even)
Stefan Noesen vs. Justin Williams (edge CAR)
Brian Boyle vs. Victor Rask (edge NJ)
Miles Wood vs. Warren Foegele (edge NJ)
Joseph Anderson vs. Jordan Martinook (edge even)
Forward: NJ 5, CAR 4, even 3

Sami Vatanen vs. Dougie Hamilton (edge CAR)
Andy Greene vs. Jaccob Slavin (edge CAR)
Will Butcher vs. Justin Faulk (edge NJ)
Damon Severson vs. Brett Pesce (edge CAR)
Mirco Mueller vs. Calvin de Haan (edge CAR)
Steven Santini vs. Trevor van Riemsdyk (edge CAR)
Defense: CAR 5, NJ 1

Keith Kinkaid vs. Scott Darling (edge NJ)
Cory Schneider vs. Petr Mrazek (edge NJ)
Goaltending: NJ 2, CAR 0

Total: CAR 9, NJ 8, even 3

Sure, the difference in goal looks huge. But NJ owes Schneider (who seems to have lost his starters job to Kinkaid) $24 million over the next four seasons. Kinkaid was .913, 2.77 last season. Schneider was .907, 2.93. They also have the absolutely horrid Eddie Lack under contract in the NHL for a grand total of $7.9 million for goalies. Their 5-on-5 save pct. last season was .917, good for seventh worst in the league. Do you think they're excited about Kinkaid/Schneider/Lack this coming season? What do you think the chances are that the same two guys, plus Lack, improve on the seventh worst 5-on-5 save percentage in the league this year?

But the Devils are a clear playoff contender and we're not.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Maybe it's just the specter of breaking the NHL record for amount of seasons without the playoffs messing with me but frankly if I had to choose between making the playoffs this coming season followed by Skinner Tavaresing us, or breaking that record, I take the playoffs even if it were to result in us getting absolutely slaughtered by Tampa, Pittsburgh, Washington, or Toronto in the first round.

This is implying that making the playoffs depends a lot more on Skinner than it really does. I honestly don't see how trading Jeff Skinner affects our chances to make the playoffs all that much. He's just not that good. And to tell the truth, I'm not sure how you can even argue that we're more likely to make the playoffs with Skinner than without when he's been here eight seasons and has yet to play in a playoff game. We're making it out like we cashed in our chips by trading Jeff Skinner and I just cannot see how that's the case. Skinner has not yet made a difference in this regard and I sincerely doubt he's going to start now.

 

[AeroFishOne]

I’ll believe this when I see them actually go out and play better hockey as a team. On paper, this team’s “talent level” is higher in the sense that we look at guys like Svechnikov, Necas, Zykov and Foegele and assume that they must be on their way to a better showing than a Derek Ryan or Lee Stempniak. We assume that Ferland and Martinook must be harder to play against than a Nordstrom or Lindholm. But odds are, we’re wrong about at least a couple of those guys. Odds are, by the end of the season we’re looking at a couple of those roster slots as “holes” in need of a solution halfway through the season. That’s how this always goes, every year. Hardly ever does any team bat 1.000 with new players, and new players make up close to half our lineup at the moment.

The X factor is coaching. We have absolutely no idea how Brind’Amour is going to be as a head coach, because he’s never done it before. But common sense tells you a guy who has never been a HC at any level is probably not going to be even an average HC in his first season. So again, odds are the coaching is not going to save this team from itself. We’re in a situation where barring a Vegas-like outcome where RBA somehow gets maximum output from everybody, this team actually is not any better than they were last year. That’s just the harsh reality of this situation, as has been borne out in the past several seasons when we throw young players and rookie coaches in there with a naive belief that they’re going to just Attitude their way to success.

If I’m another team in this division, my mouth is watering at every CAR date on the calendar. This is clearly the worst team in the division on paper, other than maybe the Islanders. Again, I’ll be happy to eat my crow if these guys pull a playoff season out of their ass, but that is incredibly unlikely for a team that doesn’t even know who’s playing 1C, has horrible goaltending, is leaning on U20 players to lead their offense, and has a rookie head coach.

We assume that Ferland and Martinook will be harder to play against because we’ve actually seen all four play over several years. They have established history in the league. You can’t say Ferland and Lindholm play the same style of game. The only times Lindholm looked physical was by accident. Carolina has lacked gritty players capable of scoring for several years. Whether it was the system or the players we had, we never seemed to be one of the teams that had guys crash the crease. They were also too scared to get themselves dirty by getting in there. That was one thing I liked about Ryan’s Smyth.
Your right some of the rookies might not have the greatest year but burying them in the minors when several have proven ready for a shot is not the answer. You assume things about players every year. Even established players can come out and crap the bed.

To focus on your last paragraph, that’s what I’m hoping for. I’m sure every team was salivating at every calendar date that had the initials VGK. Carolina was also promised to be the worst of the bunch during 05-06. Not saying this team is that because I’m not expecting to make the playoffs. I still think they will be more competitive as I’ve stated multiple times. I could be wrong but atleast there’s a good possibility I won’t watch the same heartless play most of a season.

Rod is a wild card and I don’t expect him to jump in and be a savior. Wasn’t my favorite decision but it’s whatever, it’s not like the guy just jumped into a HC position from a front office. You would hope he wasn’t just sitting on the bench knocking his pud and actually watched and learned some of the fundamentals to coaching and has been thinking and planning a system.