Should have let Nylander sit or traded him for defense.

[dubplatepressure]

We're pretty good at getting to the net. Think it's funny that the hopeless perimeter player Nylander is tied for third in the league in slot shots this month. Makes you think, doesn't it?

Edit: Didn't mean to make the picture quite so large.
Edit2: Used the tweet instead.

Very interesting. Especially seeing Willy up there - validates the eye test of late. Thanks for posting this.

 

[DarkKnight]

Cough....what stats? Stats when Marner was 19 and 20 years old? Nylander has played 46 games this season. He should be up to speed and Marner still shows better performance.There is nothing anyone can say that would make a convincing argument that Nylander is in any way comparable to Marner. Marner is improving and Nylander has regressed yet the bias people bring with them is that Marner has somehow hit his peak and Nylander will show numbers far higher than he ever has.
Give this up already. Willy will get better but so will Marner.

Well put, the logic doesn't even make sense, so I just chalk it up to inability to drop the old bias. Pragmatism.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Very interesting. Especially seeing Willy up there - validates the eye test of late. Thanks for posting this.

So you're saying our star players lack finish?

I fail to see that as a good thing...

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Very interesting. Especially seeing Willy up there - validates the eye test of late. Thanks for posting this.

I think its extremely hard to ignore how good they've been... Crazy to me that people still want to see Nylander traded because of the holdout. He's finally back to that elite level and we should just enjoy having nice things

 

[dubplatepressure]

So you're saying our star players lack finish?

I fail to see that as a good thing...

I see it as a good sign that Willy's getting a ton of scoring chances - the finish will come. Whatever you see it as is your prerogative.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

So you're saying our star players lack finish?

I fail to see that as a good thing...

Those two have put up 15 points in the last 7 games... What lack of finish? They've dominated lately.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Those two have put up 15 points in the last 7 games... What lack of finish? They've dominated lately.

Ah... real points I can get behind.

When I go on the main boards, I just don't see other fanbases clinging to weird bullshit like "zone entries" and "shots from the slot." No. They point to REAL stats. They say "Yeah, our player has 40 f***ing real goals. 100 f***ing REAL points. That's f***ing right"

It seems only leaf fans are clinging to obscure nonsense to try and rationalize our players. It's like we all know as a fact they're underproducing based on pay... so we're trying to rationalize it any way we see fit. We'll cling to anything but the actual real stats that matter.

 

[Placid Perspicuity]

So that explains how Matthews has largely played better this season when away from Nylander??

Oh, you think that the hot start to his season this year was because he wasn't being slowed down by Nylander? I see...

If you feel that Nylander isn't helping Matthews, that's fine. To suggest he was slowing him down is another argument entirely. I don't agree with either of those points, but that's fine. Ultimately, I believe that we are both wanting the same thing; for the Leafs to win the Cup. If we have different views of how to get there, it's understandable.

 

[Spirit of 67]

If you feel he estimated everything correctly than there is no cause for concern.

Well first of all, I have no control over how much they get paid so I don't concern myself with it.
Secondly, I really don't offer opinions on things that haven't happened yet. For instance, as much as I thought the Zaitsev contract seemed terrible, I was fully prepared to see how it played out before condemning it.
(Not meant in any way other than that's just how I am.)

Also, I do know, I don't know everything management knows. Which also means I have a hard time venturing an opinion on what someone is thinking when I don't know first hand.

I know, it's not very fun of me but it's just how I am. Hot takes and fake outrage just aren't my thing.

 

[egd27]

So you're saying our star players lack finish?

I fail to see that as a good thing...

Well played

 

[nuck]

so the sum total of this drivel is you think he is $360K overpaid?

He's overpaid by at least $500k which might be the difference in resigning Ennis versus him walking or in getting a deal done with AJ or Kap. Its never only $360k, because they are carrying some truly bad deals that unlike Willie, aren't easily movable. $360k on three bad deals is a million bucks. Based on Ehlers and Pasta there is a reasonable argument for $6.5M which would have an AAV of something like $6.2M if you aren't paying him for the time he didn't play.

If they don't have Matthews and Marner or if Marleau and Zaits were coming of the books this summer it makes no difference but that isn't the case. If they end up moving players they want to keep because they can't find $1M in AAV or they are trading assets to move cap out it all means something.

 

[Matthews34]

Amen to that....hate the cap!

I know, right! I can't believe the NHL has become socialist. The league should it's name to the NSHL the National Socialist Hockey League.

 

[ACC1224]

Well first of all, I have no control over how much they get paid so I don't concern myself with it.
Secondly, I really don't offer opinions on things that haven't happened yet. For instance, as much as I thought the Zaitsev contract seemed terrible, I was fully prepared to see how it played out before condemning it.
(Not meant in any way other than that's just how I am.)

Also, I do know, I don't know everything management knows. Which also means I have a hard time venturing an opinion on what someone is thinking when I don't know first hand.

I know, it's not very fun of me but it's just how I am. Hot takes and fake outrage just aren't my thing.

Why did you quote my post in the first place then?

 

[MyBudJT]

Oh, you think that the hot start to his season this year was because he wasn't being slowed down by Nylander? I see...

If you feel that Nylander isn't helping Matthews, that's fine. To suggest he was slowing him down is another argument entirely. I don't agree with either of those points, but that's fine. Ultimately, I believe that we are both wanting the same thing; for the Leafs to win the Cup. If we have different views of how to get there, it's understandable.

I didn't say Nylander slows Matthews down...

 

[Spirit of 67]

Why did you quote my post in the first place then?

You said he under estimated how much they'd cost.

I asked how you knew that.

Near as I can tell, you have no idea how much he thought he'd have to pay. Or, on what he was basing how much he'd have to pay.

 

[ACC1224]

You said he under estimated how much they'd cost.

I asked how you knew that.

Near as I can tell, you have no idea how much he thought he'd have to pay. Or, on what he was basing how much he'd have to pay.

Yes, it was my opinion. I doubt it's a rare one. (That's also my opinion)

 

[ITM]

Ah... real points I can get behind.

When I go on the main boards, I just don't see other fanbases clinging to weird bull**** like "zone entries" and "shots from the slot." No. They point to REAL stats. They say "Yeah, our player has 40 ****ing real goals. 100 ****ing REAL points. That's ****ing right"

It seems only leaf fans are clinging to obscure nonsense to try and rationalize our players. It's like we all know as a fact they're underproducing based on pay... so we're trying to rationalize it any way we see fit. We'll cling to anything but the actual real stats that matter.

Mmm...I think more Leafs fans (here) cling to nonsense to deform our better players’ worth. Even when plainly good reasons are provided to temper derision.

And nothing proves that point than the immediacy with which situations need to change...until the next win or winning streak.

 

[Mess]

Because everyone keeps telling me that "internal cap structures" are what matter most. The leafs players will use other signed leaf players as benchmarks for what they should get paid. When they do that with Nylander, they'll cite the officially listed 45 mil over 6 seasons. They won't care about the money Nylander lost for sitting out.

That is his official contract filed with the NHL so its hard to dispute reality.

WILLIAM NYLANDER #29
COMPARE THIS CONTRACT

LENGTH: 6 YEARS
EXPIRY STATUS: UFA
SIGNING TEAM: Toronto Maple Leafs
VALUE: $45,000,000
C.H.%

: 12.93
SIGNING DATE: December 1, 2018
SOURCE: @CapFriendly

 

[Placid Perspicuity]

I didn't say Nylander slows Matthews down...

You mentioned that Matthews does better without Nylander, citing his improved statistics this season. I think that a more likely explanation would be things like growth from Matthews or increased PP opportunities at the beginning of the year. However, if you're citing the lack of Nylander on his line as "proof" that Matthews doesn't benefit from him, then it's a logical conclusion to draw from your statement that Nylander drags down Matthews.

I'm not trying to get into an argument here. Like I said in my previous post, we both want the Leafs to win. We just have different views about some of the players.

 

[IPS]

Ah... real points I can get behind.

When I go on the main boards, I just don't see other fanbases clinging to weird bull**** like "zone entries" and "shots from the slot." No. They point to REAL stats. They say "Yeah, our player has 40 ****ing real goals. 100 ****ing REAL points. That's ****ing right"

It seems only leaf fans are clinging to obscure nonsense to try and rationalize our players. It's like we all know as a fact they're underproducing based on pay... so we're trying to rationalize it any way we see fit. We'll cling to anything but the actual real stats that matter.

So why don't you acknowledge that TOI is a real stat and has a very real impact on production then?

 

[MyBudJT]

You mentioned that Matthews does better without Nylander, citing his improved statistics this season. I think that a more likely explanation would be things like growth from Matthews or increased PP opportunities at the beginning of the year. However, if you're citing the lack of Nylander on his line as "proof" that Matthews doesn't benefit from him, then it's a logical conclusion to draw from your statement that Nylander drags down Matthews.

I'm not trying to get into an argument here. Like I said in my previous post, we both want the Leafs to win. We just have different views about some of the players.

I guess I could have worded that better.

I was suggesting the first part of the season prior to iniury Matthews was playing he best hockey of his career. He did this without Nylander. This is hardly even debatable.

I don't agree that Nylander makes Matthews better... But he MIGHT help him produce a little more... But he doesn't increase the quality of player Matthews is.

Conversely, I think Matthews makes Nylander play better. Nylander needs Matthews to produce at a near 7 mil level. He has show he can't when away from him.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

So why don't you acknowledge that TOI is a real stat and has a very real impact on production then?

I still don't ever see other fanbases talk like this.
I still see it. Johnsson's and Kapanen's stats are prorated to if they had more ice time and PP time. And that's apparently how Dubas has to pay them.
Other fanbases just don't seem to do this.

It's a slippery slope. Do we have to prorate every nhl players stats to if they had 20 minutes of ice time a game, and 4.5 pp minutes per game? Or just leaf players?
Why do we prorate Matthews stats to if he had 20 minute per game and 4.5 pp minutes... but not say, Ennis?
Ennis in on pace for 20-ish goals/82 with 10 minutes toi per game and amost no PP time. If we double his toi and give him 4 minutes of PP time a game, is it outrageous to say he'd at least double his goal totals? So do we have to pay him as a 40 goal player now?

 

[Menzinger]

I'm wondering how long or what its going to take for the GM to come to the conclusion that moving Nylander and his $7 mil cap hit from forward to defense?

Wonder if a 1st round loss will reinforce the need to improve the defense or if the Marner contract will turn on a light bulb that 4 X forwards eating up 1/2 a cap is too much investment and hurts the defense cap allotment.

Well, for one it’s not an either or situation.

There are plenty of assets that can also be moved

 

[BlueForever75]

Stop the talk of Nylander being traded or not worth his contract. The Matthews-Nylander combo has been more threatening then Tavares-Marner the past week. Those 2 combos will be Leafs for a very long time. Problem is Babcock not seeing that it was the best way to go since Nylander came back.

 

[FraumBallard]

He's overpaid by at least $500k which might be the difference in resigning Ennis versus him walking or in getting a deal done with AJ or Kap. Its never only $360k, because they are carrying some truly bad deals that unlike Willie, aren't easily movable. $360k on three bad deals is a million bucks. Based on Ehlers and Pasta there is a reasonable argument for $6.5M which would have an AAV of something like $6.2M if you aren't paying him for the time he didn't play.

If they don't have Matthews and Marner or if Marleau and Zaits were coming of the books this summer it makes no difference but that isn't the case. If they end up moving players they want to keep because they can't find $1M in AAV or they are trading assets to move cap out it all means something.

I hope they don't have $ to sign
Johnsson/Kap/Ennis.
We don't need all these one dimensional tiny guys.
Good riddance.