Should have let Nylander sit or traded him for defense.

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SwaggySpungo

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Oct 18, 2018
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He's literally been of no value to the team this season. Actually, you could argue he's been of negative value, as the Leafs offense has dried up since he returned and they are on the cusp of being a wildcard team (missing the playoffs also isn't out of the picture). I imagine you could have found a fairly good defenseman for a $7 million cap hit.

Not only do they give the guy a monster long-term contract, but they also promise not to trade him. Why? The guy held you up for more money. Why have a shred of loyalty to someone who does that?

He didn't care about the well-being of the team; only about his personal well-being. I'm OK with that - it's a business. But that business goes both ways. Leafs should have just dealt him, for draft picks if necessary. Why should the Leafs show loyalty to someone who has no loyalty to them?
 

WickedPegJets

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Feb 12, 2017
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He's literally been of no value to the team this season. Actually, you could argue he's been of negative value, as the Leafs offense has dried up since he returned and they are on the cusp of being a wildcard team (missing the playoffs also isn't out of the picture). I imagine you could have found a fairly good defenseman for a $7 million cap hit.

Not only do they give the guy a monster long-term contract, but they also promise not to trade him. Why? The guy held you up for more money. Why have a shred of loyalty to someone who does that?

He didn't care about the well-being of the team; only about his personal well-being. I'm OK with that - it's a business. But that business goes both ways. Leafs should have just dealt him, for draft picks if necessary.
It's my understanding that Nylander can't be traded by the February 26, 2019 deadline, but he can be traded over the Summer.
 
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Duke16

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Apr 14, 2015
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I am going to agree for different reasons. I know that Nylander is an awesome player, but I think the calibre of D brought back would have been of greater use long-term. I think a good partner for Rielly is far more important than our 4th best forward no matter how you put it.
 

Stamkos4life

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Oct 25, 2018
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Should've let him sit unless an amazing trade came up.

After signing tavares to 11 mil we dont need to be giving 7 mil to a winger who cant drive a line on his own.

Especially with marner and matty coming up
 

SwaggySpungo

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Oct 18, 2018
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Pretty sure Nylander is not the reason the whole team stopped scoring goals.

He has 1 goal in 20 games.

A forward who scores for an average of 4 goals over an 82 game season is not an NHL caliber player. Such a player devalues his line and brings down everyone he plays with. His turnovers certainly don't help either.

If you put a 4 goal scorer on each of the top 3 lines, of course the team's offense will sink like a stone. Hockey is a team sport.
 

SwaggySpungo

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Oct 18, 2018
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It's my understanding that Nylander can't be traded by the February 26, 2019 deadline, but he can be traded over the Summer.

I think Dubas made a handshake deal with him for longer than that. His reputation is shot if he goes back on that. But maybe I'm wrong about the promise Dubas gave him.
 

WickedPegJets

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Feb 12, 2017
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He has 1 goal in 20 games.

A forward who scores for an average of 4 goals over an 82 game season is not an NHL caliber player. Such a player devalues his line and brings down everyone he plays with. His turnovers certainly don't help either.

If you put a 4 goal scorer on each of the top 3 lines, of course the team's offense will sink like a stone. Hockey is a team sport.
Hockey is truly a team sport yet players are paid according to their goals and assists production.
 

WickedPegJets

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Feb 12, 2017
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Should've let him sit unless an amazing trade came up.

After signing tavares to 11 mil we dont need to be giving 7 mil to a winger who cant drive a line on his own.

Especially with marner and matty coming up
When Dubas caved into Nylander's outrageous salary demand, Dubas didn't think Nylander would be this rusty.
 

SeaOfBlue

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Aug 1, 2013
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I think Dubas made a handshake deal with him for longer than that. His reputation is shot if he goes back on that. But maybe I'm wrong about the promise Dubas gave him.

I think the handshake deal lasts until July 1st, when a good chunk of his bonus money has been payed and he only makes like 4.9 mill per year in real dollars. That does not mean he is gone 100%, but at that time if the Leafs get a good enough deal for him, he's out of here. That was the agreement Nylander made in order to get more money on his deal from us, but both parties wanted him here for the rest of this year for the playoff run.

Unfortunately, Nylander has been the worst forward in pretty much every game he's played in... So they may need to keep him longer than originally expected.
 

SeaOfBlue

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The offense was starting to dry up before he signed. Take the blinders off people.

No, the Leafs were still doing pretty well up until Christmas, even with Nylander and Matthews (occasionally) struggling. After that, it all went downhill and Nylander just got worse while Matthews has been inconsistent.
 

diehardleafsfan9878

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Mar 9, 2015
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No, the Leafs were still doing pretty well up until Christmas, even with Nylander and Matthews (occasionally) struggling. After that, it all went downhill and Nylander just got worse while Matthews has been inconsistent.
The Leafs play of late has been going on a lot longer than people think. They haven't played well since the beginning of November. Just because their shots were going in doesn't mean they were playing good.
 
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JamieG19

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Dec 8, 2017
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Kinda crazy that the team really hit the tank when he came back. Real weird

It happens a lot actually. A team rolls along without one of their top players. He comes back. Everyone thinks they'll be unstoppable but instead things stall. Guys are in different roles.
 
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Popeye7735

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Jan 4, 2018
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I am going to agree for different reasons. I know that Nylander is an awesome player, but I think the calibre of D brought back would have been of greater use long-term. I think a good partner for Rielly is far more important than our 4th best forward no matter how you put it.
Well said and agreed 100%. The problem is: with his dismal production to date, can he return a decent d-man in a trade?
 

Nalens Oga

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Jan 5, 2010
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The problem with him is probably a mental one in his game right now. He's faster than he was before, his stick handling is good, he's stronger, etc. He just isn't getting in the right positions to score or the timing is off or whatever. The team's shitty system from defense going to offense to their shit cycle doesn't help either.

Let's be honest, the only two players that have clicked in terms of chemistry the whole season have been Tavares and Marner and even those two are relying more on individual talent than actual chemistry.

Even if Dubas overpaid Nylander, what did he overpay him by at most.....$1M? He couldn't really trade him without signing, we would not have gotten good value. If he was planning to trade him then the best option was to sign him, wait for Nylander to score like he did last season, and then trade him. He couldn't have predicted that Nylander's offense would've dried up so quickly. And even I, a Babcock hater, couldn't predict that other teams would exploit Babcock so well either.
 

SeaOfBlue

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Aug 1, 2013
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The Leafs play of late has been going on a lot longer than people think. They haven't played well since the beginning of November. Just because their shots were going in doesn't mean they were playing good.

So essentially they have not been playing well the entire season and have just been lucky?

First 10 games (until October 24th): 7-3
Next 10 games (until November 16th): 7-3
Next 10 games (until December 8th): 6-3-1
Next games until Christmas (7 games): 5-1-1
Since Christmas (11 games): 4-7.

Don't get me wrong, they need to tighten up even when they do win. However, they have not been getting lucky this entire season. They have put up 28 GF and given up 34 GA in that 11 game stretch. Averaging 2.5 GPG and giving up over 3 is not a recipe for success. Before that, 140 GF and 105 GA in 37 games: 3.78 GF, 2.84 GA. Actually, giving up 3 GPG is not even that terrible, if you consider that it would be under 3 if you take out empty netters. It's not amazing, but they'd have a record similar to their previous stretches if they put up more goals (like 6-5 at least). They definitely would have beat Florida and Arizona...

The offense has not been working, and Nylander is getting paid a lot of money to be a main contributor to our offensive success. It may be pure coincidence, but things have dried up since he has started playing, and his production/overall play tell the same story.
 

Sniper99

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Jan 12, 2011
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I think Dubas made a handshake deal with him for longer than that. His reputation is shot if he goes back on that. But maybe I'm wrong about the promise Dubas gave him.
If Dubas did actually say that, if he got some sort of offer for Nylander that caught his eye wouldnt he at least want to go back to Nylander and say "hey I got this offer, I know what I said earlier but...." Life tough, he doesnt have a NTC reputation or not life sucks.
 

I Believe

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Mar 5, 2011
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Pretty sure Nylander is not the reason the whole team stopped scoring goals.
Pretty much. I think we have a tendency to pick 1 person and throw all of the teams problems on them.

Willie has to be better though. Players get injured for months and come back and contribute right away. No way Willie should be struggling this much.
 
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Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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A promise of not trading him should not have been made.

If no D was available, we sign him (which we did). If his season/playoff play is of a level that can’t be replaced by a D, you keep him.

If it is not or a super deal presents itself that makes us a better team, you trade him.
 

Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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It's interesting that when I make the argument that Nylander gets no cheap points due to someone else doing the work, I get accused of putting the blame on others. However, it's somehow perfectly acceptable to blame him for other people not scoring, even players who are never on the ice with him.

That our forwards are not scoring is on them all as a group, not on one player. If it was, this team is so mentally fragile that we might as well just rebuild the whole team.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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It's interesting that when I make the argument that Nylander gets no cheap points due to someone else doing the work, I get accused of putting the blame on others. However, it's somehow perfectly acceptable to blame him for other people not scoring, even players who are never on the ice with him.

That our forwards are not scoring is on them all as a group, not on one player. If it was, this team is so mentally fragile that we might as well just rebuild the whole team.
Eventually he needs points. That’s just the bottom line for someone getting paid as an offensive player.

That being said, my issues are with the coach’s use of the words compete and urgency. Also getting placed in the 4th line. How many 22 year olds that just signs a big deal see 4th line duty? These things aren’t acceptable.

If Nylander is driving play hard but a Connor Brown cannot for the life of him finish anything, that’s a much different story. You can tell the difference.

Zone entry is great. What happens after that? Is it a Nylander issue, a coaching issue? Core players have to take a load of the responsibility. Just as Matthews should at the moment.
 
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