Player Discussion Shea Weber: The Big C

[Habs Halifax]

For who? Prospect? Would you accept 15 defeats in arrow like Detroit are on it? Lol thats ridiculous

Trading Weber for the return we want is easier said than done. Nobody trades Blue chip prospects and how many teams have the cap space to fit him in? Retaining on Weber is very risky IMO.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Every time I think about that Weber wrap around I think of the Chara ballerina goal from back in 2013. Chara was nearly 36 at the time.

Bruins missed the playoffs in 2015 and 2016. Didn't trade Chara to a "contender" for magic beans. Weird.

That is a very good point, so true! Same goes for Giordano when he passed 30 and Calgary was not a playoff team.

 

[TT1]

Berkshire 2016:. Worst trade in Habs history
Berkshire 2019: Weber occasionally gusting into best player territory.

Analyzing Shea Weber's recent dominance and how much can be sustained - Sportsnet.ca

what a clown

 

[BaseballCoach]

I remember when Weber trade was made. Bergevin took a lot of bad talk on here. Turns out he made right move. Shows why GMs are GMs and fans are fans.

Well, you can't really say that because Poile is also a GM so if MB was smart, then Poile was dumb.

Unlike many others at the time, I said that it was a toss-up and I could see both sides, but just because I would not condemn the trade, I was put by some posters into a pro-MB camp, which was ridiculous. I'm not.

The true lesson is not that GMs are always right and fans are always wrong. The true lesson is that what looks lopsided and yet happens anyway may not be as lopsided, necessarily.

 

[Toene]

I remember when Weber trade was made. Bergevin took a lot of bad talk on here. Turns out he made right move. Shows why GMs are GMs and fans are fans.

I'm eating a lot of crow because of how it turned out, but I'll always maintain that at the time of the trade it WAS a bad move. Though, since it happened, Subban had a couple good years and a really good playoff run, but now has regressed massively. Weber was good for a couple seasons, but since the last two seasons has reached another gear.

At the time, there was no arguments based on on-ice factors that could possibly justify this trade as anything more than a lateral move. Things have now changed... But please dont sell this as a shrewd move by MB, especially since the deal was short-sighted. Let's remember that shortly after, he went after Drouin and Alzner, stating that he had constructed "the best defence" since he began his tenure. We all know how it turned out. Yikes. The trade is okay, fine even, but in the large scheme of things, was quite dumb. We now know we shouldve traded Subban for futures and prospects.

So MB was a visionary that accurately predicted Subban's decline, but couldn't see that the defence he built was atrocious ? He couldnt foresee finishing at the bottom of the standings, which led the team to acknowledge the need to add talent through the draft ? Nah... He was in "win-now" mode and it blew up in his face.

 

[1909]

We should trade him while his offense is this good.

I hate those trade's suggestions.

Edmonton should trade McDavid and Draisaitl too, I guess.....

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm eating a lot of crow because of how it turned out, but I'll always maintain that at the time of the trade it WAS a bad move. Though, since it happened, Subban had a couple good years and a really good playoff run, but now has regressed massively. Weber was good for a couple seasons, but since the last two seasons has reached another gear.

At the time, there was no arguments based on on-ice factors that could possibly justify this trade as anything more than a lateral move. Things have now changed... But please dont sell this as a shrewd move by MB, especially since the deal was short-sighted. Let's remember that shortly after, he went after Drouin and Alzner, stating that he had constructed "the best defence" since he began his tenure. Then, not long after, we were heading for a retool towards youth... Yikes. The trade is okay, fine even, but in the large scheme of things, was quite dumb. We now know we shouldve traded Subban for futures and prospects.

So MB was a visionary that accurately predicted Subban's decline, but couldn't see that the defence he built was atrocious ? He couldnt foresee finishing at the bottom of the standings, which led the team to acknowledge the need to add talent through the draft ? Nah... He was in "win-now" mode and it blew up in his face.

Not a bad move but a questionable move. A very good RD for a very good RD who was 4 years older. You feel it was bad cause of the 4 years right? But some doubled down on the 4 year age gap and how Weber was going to decline while Subban was getting better.

It's not over yet believe it or not so don't eat the crow yet! . I'm still a fan of both players and lots of people writing off Subban this year like they did with Weber when he was injured. I'd swap Subban for Petry right now today, no problem at all. Watch the comments I get for saying this.

The only issue I have with Subban is he is overpaid. You give me Subban for the next 3 years from 30-32 at $6M cap hit and I'd take him! Fans are so trendy

 

[1909]

Not a bad move but a questionable move. A very good RD for a very good RD who was 4 years older. You feel it was bad cause of the 4 years right? But some doubled down on the 4 year age gap and how Weber was going to decline while Subban was getting better.

It's not over yet believe it or not so don't eat the crow yet! . I'm still a fan of both players and lots of people writing off Subban this year like they did with Weber when he was injured. I'd swap Subban for Petry right now today, no problem at all. Watch the comments I get for saying this.

The only issue I have with Subban is he is overpaid. You give me Subban for the next 3 years from 30-32 at $6M cap hit and I'd take him!

PK is done... Unless he re-focused a lot on the game and get in better shape. And MB will NEVER re-acquire him. And certainly not at 9M $ a season.

 

[1909]

Not a bad move but a questionable move. A very good RD for a very good RD who was 4 years older. You feel it was bad cause of the 4 years right? But some doubled down on the 4 year age gap and how Weber was going to decline while Subban was getting better.

It's not over yet believe it or not so don't eat the crow yet! . I'm still a fan of both players and lots of people writing off Subban this year like they did with Weber when he was injured. I'd swap Subban for Petry right now today, no problem at all. Watch the comments I get for saying this.

The only issue I have with Subban is he is overpaid. You give me Subban for the next 3 years from 30-32 at $6M cap hit and I'd take him! Fans are so trendy

Being overpaid is NOT the only issue with PK.

 

[Habs Halifax]

PK is done... Unless he re-focused a lot on the game and get in better shape. And MB will NEVER re-acquire him. And certainly not at 9M $ a season.

Nope, I'm not on that bandwagon. It's possible he is who he is right now today and it stays that way. But I've been around and using small zoomed in sample sizes is premature and there are variances when you look big picture

Same was said about Giroux when he was 28/29.

I'd engage in getting both Hall (sign/trade) and Subban (retention) for Petry+++. Not because I don't like Petry but because I would value Subban with a similar cap hit to Petry more for the next 3 years. I'd love to see both Weber and Subban on our team. But yeah, doubt Bergevin does this.

Devils owner is surely not happy right now with the July bonus money they would have to pay Subban. Pretty sure the owner/management though the ticket revenue would come with a more exciting team with Subban, Hughes, and a healthy Hall. But last I checked, they have 14k of average attendance. That $6M of July money for two more years is a problem for them for sure.

 

[1909]

Nope, I'm not on that bandwagon. It's possible he is who he is right now today and it stays that way. But I've been around and using small zoomed in sample sizes is premature and there are variances when you look big picture

Same was said about Giroux when he was 28/29.

I'd engage in getting both Hall (sign/trade) and Subban (retention) for Petry+++. Not because I don't like Petry but because I would value Subban with a similar cap hit to Petry more for the next 3 years. I'd love to see both Weber and Subban on our team. But yeah, doubt Bergevin does this.

Devils owner is surely not happy right now with the July bonus money they would have to pay Subban. Pretty sure the owner/management though the ticket revenue would come with a more exciting team with Subban, Hughes, and a healthy Hall. But last I checked, they have 14k of average attendance. That $6M of July money for two more years is a problem for them for sure.

Have you seen him play this season ? Man, oh man, He is bad.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Have you seen him play this season ? Man, oh man, He is bad.

I'd take advantage of it. If he comes with some retention and we can swap Petry for Subban and get Hall with a new contract? Sign me up! Subban for 3 years from 30-32 at $6M - $7M is a risk I would take for sure!

Your being influenced by Subban playing on a bad team IMO. I do think he is not the player he was 2 years ago but I'm not on the bandwagon that thinks he is as bad as you think

 

[1909]

I'd take advantage of it. If he comes with some retention and we can swap Petry for Subban and get Hall with a new contract? Sign me up! Subban for 3 years from 30-32 at $6M - $7M is a risk I would take for sure!

Your being influenced by Subban playing on a bad team IMO. I do think he is not the player he was 2 years ago but I'm not on the bandwagon that thinks he is as bad as you think

Who are you gonna give for a re-signed Hall ? Petry is worthing PK now. And even more. hall gonna demand 8-10 M $ + PK at too many $$$ = catastrophy.

If you would go around the league and offer PK or Petry to play on their D, I would say most teams would select Petry, and not only because of his lower salary cap.

 

[1909]

I'd take advantage of it. If he comes with some retention and we can swap Petry for Subban and get Hall with a new contract? Sign me up! Subban for 3 years from 30-32 at $6M - $7M is a risk I would take for sure!

Your being influenced by Subban playing on a bad team IMO. I do think he is not the player he was 2 years ago but I'm not on the bandwagon that thinks he is as bad as you think

Good, exceptional players are producing in any environment and are helping their team to be better.

Habs and Preds have both came to this conclusion.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Who are you gonna give for a re-signed Hall ? Petry is worthing PK now. And even more. hall gonna demand 8-10 M $ + PK at too many $$$ = catastrophy.

If you would go around the league and offer PK or Petry to play on their D, I would say most teams would select Petry, and not only because of his lower salary cap.

I forget the actual proposal but I did post it on the trade thread maybe a week or so ago? The approach would be to include Subban and Petry in the Hall (sign/trade) negotiations. We would be offering them to unload Subban and the majority of his July bonus money while they get Petry. They could keep Petry or flip him for more futures (their choice).

 

[1909]

I forget the actual proposal but I did post it on the trade thread maybe a week or so ago? The approach would be to include Subban and Petry in the Hall (sign/trade) negotiations. We would be offering them to unload Subban and the majority of his July bonus money while they get Petry. They could keep Petry or flip him for more futures (their choice).

Keep dreaming.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Good, exceptional players are producing in any environment and are helping their team to be better.

Habs and Preds have both came to this conclusion.

I think we get very good value in the 3 year term with Subban if the cap hit came under $7M. The guy would show up if he wears a Habs jersey again and It would be a great story. I don't see much difference in on ice production between Subban and Petry in the 2/3 year term

 

[Habs Halifax]

Keep dreaming.

Not dreaming or drooling over it. Just an idea. And I don't believe Subban is as bad as some are pretending it to be

 

[Chili]

Weber now has 213 regular season goals tied with Brad Park for 18th all time.

Only 8 dmen in NHL history have hit 250 goals, all Hall of Famers (Bourque, Coffey, MacInnis, Housley, Potvin, Murphy, Orr, Lidstrom).

Interested to see how high he climbs the list before he hangs 'em up.

NHL Defensemen ‑ All-Time Goals Leaders

 

[Treb]

Weber now has 213 regular season goals tied with Brad Park for 18th all time.

Only 8 dmen in NHL history have hit 250 goals, all Hall of Famers (Bourque, Coffey, MacInnis, Housley, Potvin, Murphy, Orr, Lidstrom).

Interested to see how high he climbs the list before he hangs 'em up.

NHL Defensemen ‑ All-Time Goals Leaders

Probably makes it to the top 15 this year. Very good chance to makes it to top10 by the end of his career. Could see him getting as high as Murphy, but no way he gets past Potvin.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Will Shea break Souray's habs pp goal record for dmen?

Or Lapointe's goal record?

 

[BaseballCoach]

I'm eating a lot of crow because of how it turned out, but I'll always maintain that at the time of the trade it WAS a bad move.

It was not a bad move at the time. It was a hockey move that did not yield the results expected because an overall plan was not properly designed and executed.

Some of us saw at the time that Subban had passed his peak years, and Weber as well, but the problem was NOT what we got for PK, nor for Pacioretty later, but rather how we did not get over the hump when we HAD a Norris Calibre D, a Vezina calibre G, and a top 5 scorer.

Though, since it happened, Subban had a couple good years and a really good playoff run, but now has regressed massively. Weber was good for a couple seasons, but since the last two seasons has reached another gear. At the time, there was no arguments based on on-ice factors that could possibly justify this trade as anything more than a lateral move. Things have now changed

Weber is playing more offensively but he still is not the player he was at 26-29. That's ok, in and of itself. He helps the team more than he hurts it, and is better value at $7.85M cap hit than Subban was even last year at $9.0M. But the real problem is that the GM, despite inheriting three really great players, could never put it together. It's embarrassing that he is still here trying to fix his own messes. If Molson Breweries had such a bumbling fool for a leader, they would not keep him on to do a 10-year "turnaround".

... But please dont sell this as a shrewd move by MB, especially since the deal was short-sighted. Let's remember that shortly after, he went after Drouin and Alzner, stating that he had constructed "the best defence" since he began his tenure. We all know how it turned out. Yikes. The trade is okay, fine even, but in the large scheme of things, was quite dumb. We now know we shouldve traded Subban for futures and prospects.

Trading Subban for futures would nave been ridiculous, no one does that with a 27 year old star player. No, it's BERGEVIN who should have been traded. He just does not have what it takes to assemble a complete team and never has.

So MB was a visionary that accurately predicted Subban's decline, but couldn't see that the defence he built was atrocious ? He couldnt foresee finishing at the bottom of the standings, which led the team to acknowledge the need to add talent through the draft ? Nah... He was in "win-now" mode and it blew up in his face.

Exactly.

 

[BaseballCoach]

We’ve been hearing since he got here that he’s gonna slow down, he’s gonna slow down......the only player that’s slowed down is the player he was traded for who gets paid more.

this contract is Honey, Weber’s play will allow him to play well into his late 30’s, if anything, he’s getting better.

Weber is putting up points but it is true he is not as good defensively as his first season here. Still, it's not an issue overall having him here. His contract is not preventing us from assembling a winner. It's a lack of talent at GM that is holding us back.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Good, exceptional players are producing in any environment and are helping their team to be better.

Habs and Preds have both came to this conclusion.

then the only exceptionnal player the Habs have is Price.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Not dreaming or drooling over it. Just an idea. And I don't believe Subban is as bad as some are pretending it to be

He has less points and less goals than Victor Mete and is on pace for -40. And he is earning $9M. I predict he will retire within 12 months, after being bought out. He'll say his back gave out, and maybe it did in fact.

But I really think he's done, and it's a shame.