Player Discussion Shea Weber Part II

[WhiskeySeven*]

for the intangibles, you think some posters might be having a little fun with it?

You have a point. I've started to detect as much too.

I dunno about NJD, I just assumed that EDM was worse because it's EDM.

 

[jaffy27]

ECWHSWI.

That’s who I thought

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Hahaha god you are full of it.

My guess is that you have never watched either of these guys play

Yeah I'm the one full of it. You claim Weber is the best defender in the world though. It's hilarious.

 

[Agalloch]

Yeah I'm the one full of it. You claim Weber is the best defender in the world though. It's hilarious.

Who's the best defender in the world ?

 

[Habs Icing]

Leonidas is a weird one. Not gonna ask.

As for Weber - we can talk about his leadership when the Habs lost in the first round to a truly mediocre Rangers. The Habs couldn't look less capable with the puck. Maybe they lacked some leadership.

The Preds the year before crashed out against the Sharks in game 7. Weber was on the ice for how many goals against - I think five. His aura must've been delayed at the airport.

I don't want him to be done or cooked or to decline. I want him to thrive. I think he is a great player. I don't think it's necessary to loudly try to convince oneself and other fans that he's a modern-day Achilles who will thrive until his late 30s. Plenty of evidence to the contrary. The game has changed a fair bit too. You lose a step, and he's already lost a half-a-step, you might not be able to recover. Dany Heatly was a truly elite goal scorer and he washed out very hard. Weber is a great dman today, can we enjoy him without having to endure exaggerated praise?

Let me ask you. Do you think McDavid is one of the top 5 players in the league right now? Why isn't he able to carry the Oilers? Maybe last year there was so much wrong with the Habs that nothing and no one could help.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Loved this trade since day 1, I was a huge Weber fan since his junior days. Hated Subban's indiscipline and careless play in his own zone and while being the last guy back.

I'm surprised there are still people out there that doubt him. It's not like he started his career with the habs, the guy was a stud and one of the most respected defenseman for years before he became a habs. Most importantly, he is respected by his opponents, which wasn't the case for Subban. The opponent team would even take advantage of Subban's indiscipline... I know the facebook group I'm in are pretty quiet about the trade now, I've been arguing with them for years, I have to selfishly admit that it feels damn good right now.

This is a Weber thread, not the other guy. Enough already about him and his real and alleged flaws.

Every player has flaws, even Crosby.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Who's the best defender in the world ?

That's obvious.

Serge Savard. Did you see that play he made on Rick Middleton that led to Lambert's OT goal in game 7 of the 1979 SF?

 

[CDN24]

So, one player per decade is your proof that plenty of players thrive until they're 40? Is that really your argument? lol

Was Matheiu Schneider thriving in his late 30s, is that the level you want from Weber? A slow, unreliable, non-physical slapshot?

You asked for a few, not all of them. I chose guys that have something in common with Weber,
big shot (Macinnis, Chara, and to a lessor degree schenider)
Physical Chelios/Chara/Harvey/Robinson
High hockey IQ Lidstrom/chelios/Robinson/Harvey.

Schneider is an example of a guy who lasted to 40 with one attribute on Weber's and you jump right on the worst Dman on the list.

Want a few more d-men who played until 40 many in an era where they did not have todays conditioning

Mark Howe, Larry Murphy, Fetisov, Timonen, Ray bourque, Rob blake, Teppo numinnen, Patrick, Gonchar

And even a one dimensional 39 year old Schneider still put up 32 points in 64 games as a 39 year-old.

 

[Agalloch]

That's obvious.

Serge Savard. Did you see that play he made on Rick Middleton that led to Lambert's OT goal in game 7 of the 1979 SF?

No.

 

[Cobra Commander]

I love Weber...but he has to continue like this for many more years for this trade to be considered even. Whats funny, is that I have a weird feeling (probably just me), that with the way Subban plays, he may even slow down before Weber.

The way he eats too, he’s heavy for his height, could be leaner and faster. Still a great player and would take him back over Weber. But this debate is supposed to be over in here. We’ve been warned many times. Weber is our Captain and he’s the best “Defender” in the world to many of us. Also has one hell of a slap shot. Who will decline faster and harder? We don’t know, how old is Seabrook/Keith?

Go talk about Subban in the out of town thread.

 

[Jack Skellington]

Holy f*** the last few pages of this thread is the worst thing I’ve ever seen

 

[Cobra Commander]

Yeah I'm the one full of it. You claim Weber is the best defender in the world though. It's hilarious.

Who is better at defending? Make a list instead of inventing things.

We are waiting.

 

[DangerDave]

Can you name a few? I want to be enlightened. Why is that? On the ice he had another great year and was in Norris contention until the wheels flew off and the Habs sold at the deadline. If you mean "off the ice" then I'd like to be enlightened too, thanks.

Pronger Blake Chara

 

[Cobra Commander]

Holy **** the last few pages of this thread is the worst thing I’ve ever seen

It’s because of this Hemlock77 guy

 

[FrankMTL]

The way he eats too, he’s heavy for his height, could be leaner and faster. Still a great player and would take him back over Weber. But this debate is supposed to be over in here. We’ve been warned many times. Weber is our Captain and he’s the best “Defender” in the world to many of us. Also has one hell of a slap shot. Who will decline faster and harder? We don’t know, how old is Seabrook/Keith?

Go talk about Subban in the out of town thread.

Ya obviously it's not meant to discuss what Subban has done this year...just to back track a little and discuss how both these players careers will progress. Does a bigger, more positionally sound defencemen have a longer shelf life then a free wheeling, balls out type of defenceman? I'm asking this generally and not specifically related to Subban, just that type of defenceman.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Who's the best defender in the world ?

You prove it.

Let me ask you. Do you think McDavid is one of the top 5 players in the league right now? Why isn't he able to carry the Oilers? Maybe last year there was so much wrong with the Habs that nothing and no one could help.

I'm not the one claiming that a good player must have an intangible aura. In fact I'm arguing against it!

 

[Cobra Commander]

Ya obviously it's not meant to discuss what Subban has done this year...just to back track a little and discuss how both these players careers will progress. Does a bigger, more positionally sound defencemen have a longer shelf life then a free wheeling, balls out type of defenceman? I'm asking this generally and not specifically related to Subban, just that type of defenceman.

Who knows, both players are unique specimens.

In general it’s a toss up as well.

 

[Agalloch]

You prove it.

What ?

It's really possible that is not Weber. Who do you think it is, sincerely?

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Ya obviously it's not meant to discuss what Subban has done this year...just to back track a little and discuss how both these players careers will progress. Does a bigger, more positionally sound defencemen have a longer shelf life then a free wheeling, balls out type of defenceman? I'm asking this generally and not specifically related to Subban, just that type of defenceman.

I think I agree with the concept but not sure PK is a freewheeling, balls out defenceman. Who is? Mike Green was. Even Big Buff is good defensively. Josi is more of a roamer than PK. The game has changed a lot, I'm not sure who will last and who won't. But I won't bet on any player being a top pairing dman until they are 40.

 

[Hfbsux]

I love Weber...but he has to continue like this for many more years for this trade to be considered even. Whats funny, is that I have a weird feeling (probably just me), that with the way Subban plays, he may even slow down before Weber.

Agreed. Subban relies on his speed a whole lot and you can lose your quickness after your prime... Subban is a freak athlete, but still something to keep an eye on.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

You asked for a few, not all of them. I chose guys that have something in common with Weber,
big shot (Macinnis, Chara, and to a lessor degree schenider)
Physical Chelios/Chara/Harvey/Robinson
High hockey IQ Lidstrom/chelios/Robinson/Harvey.

Schneider is an example of a guy who lasted to 40 with one attribute on Weber's and you jump right on the worst Dman on the list.

Want a few more d-men who played until 40 many in an era where they did not have todays conditioning

Mark Howe, Larry Murphy, Fetisov, Timonen, Ray bourque, Rob blake, Teppo numinnen, Patrick, Gonchar

And even a one dimensional 39 year old Schneider still put up 32 points in 64 games as a 39 year-old.

Why did you even name Schneider? He wasn't a top dman for the last five or so years of his career.

You're writing names but all but a handful of them were playing reduced roles or in exceptional positions (offensive starts, PP) for the most part. Most didn't make it till 40, btw.

 

[Vachon23]

Just stop responding to the 2 trolls who are sad that Subban been traded against him.They could win the Cup and Weber scorers 13 goals in the playoff and they will fine a way to hate him.. sad life

 

[Hfbsux]

This is a Weber thread, not the other guy. Enough already about him and his real and alleged flaws.

Every player has flaws, even Crosby.

Hey it's a Weber thread, not a Crosby thread here.

 

[Mrb1p]

I didn't say that. I'm saying that it's silly for Habs fans to praise getting an inferior player back and then claim his aura is in fact magical when the results are the opposite. But yes, I don't think Weber has the same impact on the ice as more mobile dmen and it hurts the transition game, ie possession, a lot. Having a couple of two-way studs at D allows the Preds to enjoy a dynamic approach. Weber was trending downright down in his last season for the Preds - they were moving in a different (better) direction without him. It's clear to see.

Why don't you ask this guy if he seriously believes Weber is the best defender in the world? Go ahead I'll wait.


Prove it and I'll eat my words. I'm sure the stats are there, D-zone starts, Fenwick, or whatever. Best defender. Okay, that should be easy to prove. Go ahead.

Shit, at this point, Weber is probably more mobile than Subban, so I don't even know what to tell you.

I said at the time of the draft that we lost the trade, not in talent or quality of player, but in years. Weber is four years older, that is a fact. The other fact is that both are still top 10 Dman in the league and they've suffered some injuries. Year one, Weber got the better end of it, year two, Subban got the better end of it, and now it looks like it's squared, until Weber plays more games. Maybe next year Subban takes the cake again ?

Trying to differenciate the difference in these two players is incredibly asinine and useless, its been proven time and time again that these two players match up really well year in and year out.

But you seem to be incredibly biased, as usual, and can't see passed your veil.

 

[Habs Icing]

You prove it.

I'm not the one claiming that a good player must have an intangible aura. In fact I'm arguing against it!

You are claiming different things in different posts. A player can have an intangible aura and still not carry his team to the Cup. They are not necessarily inclusive things. As Jaffy pointed out to you Gretzky led no team to a Cup in the last 11 years of his career. At least 3 or 4 of those years he was still The Great One.