Player Discussion Shea Weber Part II

Discussion in 'Montreal Canadiens' started by montreal, Oct 23, 2018.

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  1. DangerDave

    DangerDave Suzuki's Sidekick

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    Yeah has Weber ever lost a board battle lol? The only time I remember is with Zetterberg when he just smashed his face into the boards lol.
     
  2. cphabs

    cphabs It complels you!

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    After Zetts checked him from behind... watch the complete sequence. In any case, Weber is one of the few defensive players in the NHL that can make an opposing team wish they played “nice” after contributing offensively.
     
  3. japhi

    japhi Registered User

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    So whats the over under on even strength goals against? I think he has been on for two In 4 games. Maybe 30 more all year?

    To me thats his super power, its ridiculous to play 25 mins with a plug like Kulak and go multiple games without being scored against. It will never be a popular opinion but a goal prevented is the same as a goal scored.
     
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  4. donghabs98

    donghabs98 Moderator

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    Its really apparent the difference between having Weber as your number 1 vs Petry both in terms of offense and defense. Weber is always a threat out there and is one of our only defenseman who seems to be able to get a good shot off from the point.
     
  5. Scriptor

    Scriptor Registered User

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    Weber is truly all that and more. He coughed up the puck in our own zone (ant OTT failed to score) early on in the first period, but I quickly forgot about it based on his subsequent play.

    weber is NOT perfect, but he's one of the D sin this league that comes close to it.
     
  6. WhiskeySeven*

    WhiskeySeven* Expect the expected

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    He had a good season in his first year as a Hab. He was red hot for 6 weeks and then played well.

    I'm not turning sour on Weber. I was sour on him because we lost a much better player to get him but since then I've been neutral toward the guy. He had a good season his first year as a Hab but it wasn't anything we haven't seen before, Subban had a better year just the season prior, before our very eyes - so it was a direct downgrade.

    But as a player, outside of the context of the trade, he's a fine player. Excellent in his own zone. Mean when he wants to be. That rocket slapshot is awesome, it's very sexy. He's great, he's good, he's fine - I dunno what you want me to call him. He's a 1D. Elite? Ehh.

    My bad, I seriously thought it was until he's 42. His bday is Aug 1985, so his contract ends right toward the end of his 40th year.

    Zetterberg had an allegedly debilitating back injury and Hossa had an allegedly debilitating skin condition. I don't believe it for a second but if more of these players start to claim that toward the end, I think the league will crack down on it. I hope it doesn't turn out to bite the Habs.

    Just because you want to say it is BS doesn't make it so. Plenty of good players hit a wall in their 30s. The NHL is more geared toward speed than ever before. The real problem isn't that he's signed for those 1m years 37-40, it's how he'll play from 34-37 at a 7.85m caphit. For the last few years of his deal we all assume he'll retire or go on LTIR, fine, but what if his play deteriorates prior to that? Oh well, he used to have an aura! You should've seen that time he might've maybe broken part of a goalie's stick with his slapshot that missed the net in a 3-1 home loss... stuff of legend right there!!

    We disagree on this so I'm not going to dig a trench and keep repeating myself but for every "Ron Hainsey" (lol, if Weber plays like Hainsey we're screwed) there is a "Jay Bouwmeester" or a "Brent Seabrook". Their games weren't based on speed either but once they lost a bit of speed they turned into bottom3-at-best d-men. Having a 8m bottom3 d-man signed for 5 more years is horrible.

    edit: that said, if he remains excellent defensively I think we can accept that only slightly bitter pill. I think you Weber fans are suggesting that it's impossible for him to decline because of how well he plays defensively. I don't understand that, as hockey is a mobile and dynamic game, but I see how some would think that about Shea. If anyone can slow down and still be smart defensively it would be him. I don't think he's made of adamantium or has mutant genes though, he will decline.

    Okay. His tally is still literally within the margin of the winner and runner-up. 33 journalists clearly didn't think much of his qualifications to win the Norris. If you want to celebrate not-winning, or "winning" 6th place you'd fit right in with the current Habs pro-management crowd if you're not in already.
     
  7. LyricalLyricist

    LyricalLyricist Retired

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    You’ve missed the point. He played good enough to rank 6th.

    If a player scores 50 goals but doesn’t win rocket does it mean his performance was meaningless?

    Weber was not close to a Norris win, I never suggested he was. I’m just saying he played well enough to be among top D men in the league. That’s a good thing.
     
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  8. WhiskeySeven*

    WhiskeySeven* Expect the expected

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    Scoring 50 is an objective measure. Slobs like Engles voting Weber in their top3 is a subjective measure. It's clear he was under a lot more scrutiny following the trade, it's also clear he won the October Norris so many voters had their impression already made. Weber could very well have been the 6th best d-man that year but it's an essentially meaningless rank. By that tally, he was closer to being the 90th best d-man than even 3rd (or 4th).
     
  9. LyricalLyricist

    LyricalLyricist Retired

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    Subban finished 3rd last year but closer to 90th than 1st. All pointless!

    Sounds ridiculous. The voting system rewards 1st overall ballots more which is fine but Weber still finished 6th.

    I am unsure why you’re acting so petty about it. I never said he was challenging for the Norris. You just imply he might as well have been 90th since it was so close to that. It’s a pointless and childish argument. 33 top 5 votes ain’t bad. 6th place ain’t bad. It’s not the winner but I’d be happy our player received some recognition for his work.
     
  10. Subbanned

    Subbanned Registered User

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    Been a beast. In some alternate universe we have Subban AND Weber...we can dream
     
  11. Kriss E

    Kriss E Registered User

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    Never. He's never lost a board battle. He can also make the puck miss the net just by staring at it from the bench.
     
  12. WhiskeySeven*

    WhiskeySeven* Expect the expected

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    These are your words:
    Most people recognize the Norris finalists. It's a consensus tally. Generally the top2 are consensus Norris picks with a 3rd "darkhorse". If you follow hockey closely you'd recognize this and not argue that 6th place Norris finalist is at all celebrated or even mentioned by anyone but us hockey obsessed weirdos.

    After the top2 or 3 it's generally a crap shoot, a single vote for 1st skews the tally greatly. We all know Weber was not the 1st best d-man that year, so that vote is silly and likely from some MTL-based homer - that single dumb vote is worth a full tenth of Weber's tally. Finishing 6th is like finishing 10th is like finishing 20th. I wouldn't mind if someone said Weber was the 20th best d-man, I'd even argue he'd fit somewhere in the top20-top10 for the season off the top of my head. BaseballScout cited the Norris as if Weber belonged in that discussion and he clearly didn't and the glut of votes reflect that. His Norris vote tally was literally in the margin.

    Speaking of petty and pointless, I never mentioned Subban in this discussion and even then, Subban at 3rd finished with over 5 times as many Norris points last year as Weber did when he finished 6th. Subban's vote tally wasn't in the margin between 1st and 2nd and most people would acknowledge that he didn't deserve to win it but was certainly in the discussion for the Norris last year. Quite petty of you bring it up.

    His aura makes it so
     
  13. The Great Schlemko

    The Great Schlemko "The Food Will Be Better"

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    I have to admit that he is much better than I thought when we got him. Bergevin should have still got good assets back due to the age and contract difference.
     
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  14. WhiskeySeven*

    WhiskeySeven* Expect the expected

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    Honestly, I'd sign this and admit as much too. Totally agreed. He's better than he was in his last year with Nashville for sure. I hope he continues on without major injuries and we enjoy him for years to come. I wouldn't trade him, his value to the Habs (even the rebuilding Habs) is higher than his value on the market.
     
  15. Kriss E

    Kriss E Registered User

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    I wouldn't look at it that way.
    Will the Habs contend in the next couple of years? If not, to me, they're better off trading him.
    I don't think we will be contenders in the next 2-3 years at least, so I'd move him without question.
     
  16. WhiskeySeven*

    WhiskeySeven* Expect the expected

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    This year the Habs are a low-level pretender. If the defense tightens up and Price plays like an NHL goalie and the offense continues, the Habs are a playoff team. I'll never advocate selling key players in a playoff year. It hurts morale and hurts youngsters more than the return - and often key players sold for a package are greater than the sum of their (counter)-parts. Pacioretty trade being a shocking exception.

    What do you think happens if the Habs sputter out this year? Will they try to compete again next year or will they sell-off to increase their odds of getting Alexis Lafreniere?

    What do you think happens if the Habs lose in the first round this year? The second round? If the Habs make a deeper run, I think they will sign FAs in the off-season. Anything below that is hard to determine. I have no idea what goes on in Bergevin's head or Molson's for that matter.
     
  17. GSP2018

    GSP2018 Registered User

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    So glad we got rid of PK for this monster. Love Shea
     
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  18. BaseballCoach

    BaseballCoach Registered User

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    This whole discussion about Subban is pointless. We made the trade, it was a gamble like all trades involving big name players.

    In two years, if Galchenyuk scores 30, plays a killer C and the Coyotes make the playoffs, should fans here start denigrating anything Domi achieves?

    If Domi finishes 6th among forwards in Hart voting, will our own home fans put him down for this and say that it's not really that many votes? Come on!
     
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  19. ECWHSWI

    ECWHSWI bought a MB jersey

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    Everyone's expectations has been so low for the Habs this season MB will use it to tell everyone they were a pleasant surprise and this season was a sign of great things to come....

    meaning the selling of Weber, Byron, Petry or any other valuable vet will be postponed.



    And I can predict majority of fans will be very happy with it, I mean, it took what, 2W to see a "are we the new Vegas" thread or something, so yeah...

    as another poster said (don't remember who), the lowering of the bar...
     
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  20. Kriss E

    Kriss E Registered User

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    What has ''fighting for the POs'' gotten us in the past 25 years? I don't care about making the POs for the sake of it. As I said many times before, it's all depends on the situation. Not every team is in the same boat.
    The Stars for instance, they made the POs twice in 10 years. The Flames, twice in 9. The NYI have 3 appearances in last 6 but before that they missed 5 years in a row, so that's 3 in 11.
    For teams like that, makes sense for them to retain their guys and make a push. Even worse off teams like Carolina, who have not made the POs in 9 years, they would desperately welcome a PO appearance.
    The Habs? Nah man. Despite us missing them 2 in last 3, we've steadily made the POs over the past 10-15 years. We aren't starving for spring hockey, we are starving for contention and a cup.
    So do I care if moving Weber means us missing the POs this year? Hell no. Actually, I rather we missed them even with Weber. We need high end young power way more than we do Weber.

    Depends. We drafting Hughes? Did we sell Weber? Petry? Byron? What is the return?
    How's Kotka, Domi, Tatar, Drouin all playing in the 2nd half of the season?
    Who are the free agents?
    I really do not mind if we didn't make big moves next summer and possibly tank for AL either.
    If we end up with Hughes, AL, Kotka...I mean...hell facking yea! Sign me the hell up.
    Was this supposed to be a turn off bro? lol

    Nothing. Nothing will happen. Just as it hasn't the past 25 years.
     
  21. BaseballCoach

    BaseballCoach Registered User

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    The chances of getting Lafreniere and him turning out to be a generational difference making player are less than 5%. Maybe 10-12% if we limit our hope to 1st line winger.

    Not a good gamble at all.

    Please don't say that "nothing else has worked". That's like counselling a young person to quit their job and put their faith in a Vegas trip to get rich, because "working for a living hasn't got you rich yet".

    If they lose in the first round respectably and not embarassingly, it will be a good year considering where we came from the last three years.

    If we lose in the second round, Habs fans should do cartwheels.
     
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  22. BaseballCoach

    BaseballCoach Registered User

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    I understand where you are coming from but considering that in two of the past three seasons, the team literally did not "fight" for anything at all in their games, embarrassing this franchise and its loyal fans to no end, hustle and pride and fight is a most welcome improvement! Without that fight and pride, all the top draft picks in the world will get you nowhere.
     
  23. groovejuice

    groovejuice Without deviation progress is not possible

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    As Habs fans, we've been fortunate to enjoy some notable exceptions.

    GMH112195448_high.jpg
     
  24. Kriss E

    Kriss E Registered User

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    Meh, that's cinderella talk man.
    I agree, the team was dull. The team isn't now, which is great, doesn't mean we have to become dull again if we trade away Weber for a top 5 pick. But even if it did, I don't care if that is part of the plan in getting us high end talent.
    Nothing is acheived without some hardship. So if we have to suck a couple of more years so we can end up a legit contender. So be it.
     
  25. BehindTheTimes

    BehindTheTimes Registered User

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    Problem is your very unlikely to get a team with a top 5 pick interested in Weber. Easier said then done.
     
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