Player Discussion Shea Weber Part II

[Habs Halifax]

On top of that lets hope it's a player that's worth that $$ and not someone we have to overpay because the stars don't want to sign with the Habs.

I don't mind overpaying (slightly) if the player is what we need. Imagine having Radulov in the mix at lets say $7.5M? Too bad we didn't overpay for him when he decided to bolt to the no state tax city in Dallas.

Imagine if we lost only 1 of Markov, Beaulieu, and Emelin instead of all 3? Imagine not putting ourselves in a situation where we had to sign Alzner at LD? We could have Radulov in the mix and also have about $6M to spare. Unload Schlemko and we would still have the same $8 - $9M cap space we have today to use.

Alzner has not affected our cap yet but it might very soon if we want to improve our team through trades or UFA.

 

[Agalloch]

We are?

We suck. Worst team in the league and Weber is slow and his contract is a burden. Fire Bergevin and Julien.

 

[Kriss E]

We suck. Worst team in the league and Weber is slow and his contract is a burden. Fire Bergevin and Julien.

So we are a pretty good defensive team you're saying?

 

[Agalloch]

So we are a pretty good defensive team you're saying?

I said the opposite.

 

[Kriss E]

I challenge the ASSumption that the team must have overachieved to get to the final 8 teams.

We already are overachieving. The only reason we are where we are is because Domi, specifically, is producing at 1ppg pace.

I challenge the ASSumption that we will likely get lesser results the following season.

I will actually give REASONS for my beliefs.

First, with a young team, there are more guys on the upswing than the downswing. Might Price and Weber slip a bit every year? Maybe, though that is not a sure thing, given the type of players they are. But let's say yes, slightly. And maybe Byron and Tatar each score 2 less goals. Now, what about guys who might improve?

What about them? It's like people still can't see the Habs have been a .500 team for the vast majority of the year.

It starts with Kotkaniemi. If he finishes with 40 points this year, and his potential is 75 points or more, would that not drive the team significantly upward more than downward? Look at what getting Weber back has done for the team, moving other players into the right chairs. Domi as 2C and Danault as 3C or 4C changes the whole dynamic of the team!

Ya, sure, or maybe he has the very common sophomore year.
Habs are 3-2 since Weber is back, and the three wins come versus teams that are pretty much in tank mode. But yes, Weber....this mythical being has brought back such stability to our blueline. Come on man.
Are you expecting Kotkaniemi to become a legit #1 center for us next season potting in close to 70pts? I'm not. You are describing a best case scenario, which is not realistic expectations.

Lehkonen will be 24, why couldn't he score more goals during the following 3-4 years than this year? Juulsen and Mete are surely players who can get better, MUCH better in fact. Poehling or Evans should be an improvement over Chaput or Peca.

Lek, and I've said this for a while, I just don't see becoming more than a 3rd liner 15g guy.
Juulsen and Mete ''can get much better''...ya...so could Tinordi and Beaulieu. That doesn't mean anything man. We can say this every year about every prospect.
Poe and Evans...there's a better chance they don't play in the NHL next year vs them being significant improvements for us.

Then there is Josh Brook. He might be able to replace Petry, so that we can use Petry in a hockey trade for a similarly talented LD.

I'm willing to bet much of anything that Brook won't effectively replace Petry next season. Dude...come on man, you're freaking reaching.

Finally, there is a strong chance Nick Suzuki could come in and provide 20-30 goals in relatively short order.

Again...everything is best case scenario for our prospects with you.
Kotkaniemi..Juulsen...Mete..Poe...Evans...Brook..Suzuki...ya man, don't forget Fleury, oh and Lek and every 24 and under will improve..Price and Weber..ya, maybe they drop but just a bit..
Tatar..he's on a 10pt career higher pace, but okay let's say he just scores 2 less points...

You're not being objective in the least.

Nothing is magical, nothing is automatic. Agreed. But if the Habs are in the mix somewhere between #5 and #16 this year, with one of the youngest rosters in the league, and Brook, Suzuki and Poehling in the wings, and the additional talent that $10M in cap space can fetch, I think the "likelihood" is more towards going up than down.

You're not considering how a bunch of guys are producing at big career high pace. You think Domi is a legit ppg player? I don't.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

We are?

We have been since he’s returned, yes. Whether was can sustain it, who knows, but Juulsen should help as well.

 

[BaseballCoach]

You're not being objective in the least.

You're not considering how a bunch of guys are producing at big career high pace. You think Domi is a legit ppg player? I don't.

That's fair, and we might slip if our best players produce less.

But that is not what we are discussing now. We are discussing what happens if we maintain the pace, we don't slip, we win the first round and get to the final eight, with a young team that did not sacrifice assets at the trade deadline.

In THAT situation, there is good reason to believe that over the next 2-3 years, not only just one year, we will more likely improve than regress. Kotkaniemi could very well be that 1C in 2-3 years, etc., etc.

It's certainly not a fair assumption or foregone conclusion that we would automatically regress.

A Final 8 result this year would be phenomenal. I'm not saying it will happen, but if it did...... why get depressed over it?

 

[BaseballCoach]

I'm willing to bet much of anything that Brook won't effectively replace Petry next season. Dude...come on man, you're freaking reaching.

Not right away, not to full potential, but if Thomas Chabot can break out, so can Josh Brook.

More importantly, read what I wrote. If we trade Petry for an equivalent LD, then Brook only has to be better than Benn or Schlemko.

It's not "reaching" to hope for that!!

 

[Vachon23]

Not right away, not to full potential, but if Thomas Chabot can break out, so can Josh Brook.

I really like Brooks but he's not Thomas Chabot

 

[BaseballCoach]

I really like Brooks but he's not Thomas Chabot

Even 75% of Chabot is a HUUUUUUGE improvement over Benn and Schlemko.

 

[Vachon23]

Even 75% of Chabot is a HUUUUUUGE improvement over Benn and Schlemko.

Not saying he can't replace Benn or Schlemko but Petry ? Not know

 

[BaseballCoach]

Not saying he can't replace Benn or Schlemko but Petry ? Not know

My idea is to trade Petry for a similar quality LD, because with Weber Juulsen and Brook, our right side is solid. There is Fleury for depth too.

So Brook does not need to replace Petry in the hierarchy, just Benn or Schlemko.

 

[habsfan909]

I don't mind overpaying (slightly) if the player is what we need. Imagine having Radulov in the mix at lets say $7.5M? Too bad we didn't overpay for him when he decided to bolt to the no state tax city in Dallas.

Imagine if we lost only 1 of Markov, Beaulieu, and Emelin instead of all 3? Imagine not putting ourselves in a situation where we had to sign Alzner at LD? We could have Radulov in the mix and also have about $6M to spare. Unload Schlemko and we would still have the same $8 - $9M cap space we have today to use.

Alzner has not affected our cap yet but it might very soon if we want to improve our team through trades or UFA.

Imagine we never had MB as GM...

 

[Agalloch]

Imagine we never had MB as GM...

We would call our players Mr. Price, Mr. Gallagher....

 

[Tourist]

I love the stability he brings to the defence. The few games before his comeback Habs looked like a tire fire without the puck. Now the group seems more calm and collected, with most defenders playing a role more suited to them.

Weber's presence seem to help the overall game tilt in the Habs favor. Interesting how a player of his profile, one that is not that of a pure puck mover, can have such an impact. Good defence can help the offense. His ability to break up plays, clear the net, and win board battles ensures the Habs spend less time in their zone. This means more time on the attack for the Habs and more momentum on their side instead of the other way around.

Hope this keeps up against the better teams.

 

[Scintillating10]

4-1 since his return. 5 losses in the 5 games before his return. Definitely made a big difference. Man mountain is one of best players in game.

 

[Kriss E]

We have been since he’s returned, yes. Whether was can sustain it, who knows, but Juulsen should help as well.

Definitely didn't look like it versus the Sharks..but hey..play a couple of tanking team and things can change quickly I guess.

 

[Kriss E]

4-1 since his return. 5 losses in the 5 games before his return. Definitely made a big difference. Man mountain is one of best players in game.

Actually we are 3-2 not 4-1.
We lost to the Canes and Sharks, won versus the Rangers+Sens.

 

[Kriss E]

Not right away, not to full potential, but if Thomas Chabot can break out, so can Josh Brook.

More importantly, read what I wrote. If we trade Petry for an equivalent LD, then Brook only has to be better than Benn or Schlemko.

It's not "reaching" to hope for that!!

Just stating trading Petry for an equivalent hopeful isn't a reach, of course. It's when you add all of your ''possibilities'' together that it becomes a complete reach and unrealistic.
You love to talk about odds when speaking of drafting a top 5 talent and whether or not he becomes elite...Yet you're now telling me Brook can become like Chabot? Be consistent, and Chabot is in his sophomore year. We were discussing how the team would perform next year if they made it to the 2nd round this season.

 

[Kriss E]

That's fair, and we might slip if our best players produce less.

But that is not what we are discussing now. We are discussing what happens if we maintain the pace, we don't slip, we win the first round and get to the final eight, with a young team that did not sacrifice assets at the trade deadline.

In THAT situation, there is good reason to believe that over the next 2-3 years, not only just one year, we will more likely improve than regress. Kotkaniemi could very well be that 1C in 2-3 years, etc., etc.

It's certainly not a fair assumption or foregone conclusion that we would automatically regress.

A Final 8 result this year would be phenomenal. I'm not saying it will happen, but if it did...... why get depressed over it?

No man. I'm saying that THIS season, making it to final 8 is overachieving. This team has mostly been .500 team all year, so yes, making the POs and getting through the first round would be overachieving. Most people had them at the bottom of the standings.

Should we improve over the next 3 years? Well ya...I sure as hell hope so, as we add more talent the team will improve. But if we keep status quo, should we expect this team to be an ECF next season? Hell no.

I wouldn't be depressed. POs are a time to set all differences aside and just stupidly cheer your team on. It's a fun time. But in the end it will accomplish nothing.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I wouldn't be depressed. POs are a time to set all differences aside and just stupidly cheer your team on. It's a fun time. But in the end it will accomplish nothing.

I disagree and think a final 8 this season, provided we don't "cheat" to get there, accomplishes a good deal. But I'll respect your opinion while we both cheer!

 

[Foltronic]

Hey is this the negativity/ flagelle myself thread or the Man Mountain one?

His mere presence on the blue line has such a positive effect on the team it's astounding, makes everyone around him better. Couldn't be happier to have him as Captain.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Just stating trading Petry for an equivalent hopeful isn't a reach, of course. It's when you add all of your ''possibilities'' together that it becomes a complete reach and unrealistic.
You love to talk about odds when speaking of drafting a top 5 talent and whether or not he becomes elite...Yet you're now telling me Brook can become like Chabot? Be consistent, and Chabot is in his sophomore year. We were discussing how the team would perform next year if they made it to the 2nd round this season.

I'm not discussing only one more year. I'm assessing if a final 8 result is likely to improve over the next few years or not.

I feel that with Suzuki, Poehling and Brook, we have the equivalent of three first rounders coming on board next year

With respect to Brook, if Chabot is actually a 65-70 pt D over a full season (his production is only 1 pt ahead of Domi's), and Brook could be 75% of that (48-52 pts), this would be a MASSIVE upgrade over Benn or Schlemko.

 

[Kriss E]

I disagree and think a final 8 this season, provided we don't "cheat" to get there, accomplishes a good deal. But I'll respect your opinion while we both cheer!

What has our 2nd rd appearances accomplished for us over the past 25 years?

This team is not ready to contend. Expecting Kotka, Poe, Evans, Juulsen, and Suzuki to come in and put us over the top is just fan talk. Everything would have to go our way for this to happen.

 

[Kriss E]

I'm not discussing only one more year. I'm assessing if a final 8 result is likely to improve over the next few years or not.

I feel that with Suzuki, Poehling and Brook, we have the equivalent of three first rounders coming on board next year

With respect to Brook, if Chabot is actually a 65-70 pt D over a full season (his production is only 1 pt ahead of Domi's), and Brook could be 75% of that (48-52 pts), this would be a MASSIVE upgrade over Benn or Schlemko.

Well that's what I was talking about mate, next year.

If you want to talk about further down the line..ya, we have some prospects that can help us. That's great. Never denied that. How good we will be in 3 years depends on various things.