Online Series: She-Hulk Disney+

[Jussi]

 

[Guardian17]

I really enjoyed the homage to the old Hulk TV Show intro.


There rest of the episode fell flat.


After having a sexual encounter released publicly, I cannot understand how Jen could be arrested, Hulk or not.

Then, at the end of the episode, she is magically exonerated when it's not clear why she was arrested in the first place.


The attempt to label anyone who dislikes any aspect of the show as a "men who hate women" is both sexist and insulting.


K.E.V.I.N. should have been Mojo, which would have made the wackiness of that scene more palatable.


Tatiana Maslany deserved better writing and did the best with what she was given.


I'm not sure what Disney/Marvel was attempting with this show, but, it came across as pandering, rushed and taking the fans for granted.

 

[Jussi]

My only complaint, should have played this during the credits:

 

[sdf]

Porn industry should pay attention on this CGI options

 

[Jumptheshark]

I grew up watching the OG hulk in the 70's so it goes without saying I loved the opening and do not get me started on the cameos--you may need to watch it a few times to catch them all

 

[Jussi]

"The visual FX team has moved on to other projects" *Wakandan drums beats*

 

[Power Man]

 

[Guardian17]

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Missed opportunity to take the show in a more meaningful direction following the slut-shaming.

Like most, loved the intro. For the rest, just glad it's over.

 

[Garo]

After having a sexual encounter released publicly, I cannot understand how Jen could be arrested, Hulk or not.

Then, at the end of the episode, she is magically exonerated when it's not clear why she was arrested in the first place.


The attempt to label anyone who dislikes any aspect of the show as a "men who hate women" is both sexist and insulting.

Sometimes in the real world, women are prosecuted - even successfully - for assaulting their rapist. In some countries, the State executes them even if they don't retaliate. And here we are talking about a sex tape, which is tragically still severely underprosecuted or understood even in the places that actually try the most to act against them. On the opposite of that, you have a giant monster thing that destroyed a building over what is generally a fairly minor crime. Said giant monster also provided the easiest way out for law enforcement earlier in the show. Honestly, I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about any of this?

And like, are they not allowed to poke fun at an extremely silly criticism that they obviously predicted? Why is doing that meaning they are being sexist and insulting? I'm sorry but, what? This is surreal to read.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Sometimes in the real world, women are prosecuted - even successfully - for assaulting their rapist. In some countries, the State executes them even if they don't retaliate. And here we are talking about a sex tape, which is tragically still severely underprosecuted or understood even in the places that actually try the most to act against them. On the opposite of that, you have a giant monster thing that destroyed a building over what is generally a fairly minor crime. Said giant monster also provided the easiest way out for law enforcement earlier in the show. Honestly, I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about any of this?

And like, are they not allowed to poke fun at an extremely silly criticism that they obviously predicted? Why is doing that meaning they are being sexist and insulting? I'm sorry but, what? This is surreal to read.

I thought the fact she was arrested (while none of the regular cape crusaders get in trouble for the damage they cause) was going the right way, showing a woman just, you know, couldn't. Guardian is right though that the fact that it's in the end just brushed aside is pretty silly. It goes with the rest of the show's "look, look, this show has a discourse", but it's again pretty lame.

I didn't mind the reflexivity and distanciation, it was better used than in previous episodes (at least more unexpected, but the writing was again terrible, IMO), but the attention given to the toxic male fans (that were indeed very much predictable) makes the whole thing very petty. I mean, I get that these clowns must be frustrating for the creators (and especially for the actresses who take on these roles), but making a show to flash them the finger? Why not, I guess...

Anyway, the only thing I take away from the whole thing is how lame they've made Murdock. Let's hope they've got better writers to fix this for his own show, he was such a great character on Netflix.

 

[Guardian17]

Sometimes in the real world, women are prosecuted - even successfully - for assaulting their rapist. In some countries, the State executes them even if they don't retaliate. And here we are talking about a sex tape, which is tragically still severely underprosecuted or understood even in the places that actually try the most to act against them.

This show takes place in the United States.

I have never heard of a woman in the United Stated be prosecuted for assaulting their rapist.

I have never heard of a woman in the United States be executed for being raped.

On the opposite of that, you have a giant monster thing that destroyed a building over what is generally a fairly minor crime. Said giant monster also provided the easiest way out for law enforcement earlier in the show. Honestly, I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about any of this?

That is a perfect example of the poor writing.

The vast majority of police officers are good people.

This woman just had her sexual encounter released publicly.

In the real world, those creeps at the gala would be arrested and she would be taken home.

Also, she is a celebrity.

In the real world, she would be given the benefit of the doubt compared to a regular woman.

I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about any of this?

And like, are they not allowed to poke fun at an extremely silly criticism that they obviously predicted?

They are not just poking fun at "extremely silly criticism" they are poking fun at "any" criticism.

Why is doing that meaning they are being sexist and insulting? I'm sorry but, what? This is surreal to read.

It's sexist because all the people in the group were men.

There are plenty of women who have criticized this show, but, the writers pretend it's only men.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

Well, that was... different.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

There are plenty of women who have criticized this show, but, the writers pretend it's only men.

Criticizing the show and criticizing the show because the lead is a woman is two very different things. I've posted a few comments by women who didn't appreciate the manhandling (pun intended) of feminist themes, but they were never reacting to the fact that it was a show about a She. These clowns exist, and there's plenty of them. It's been the same for the other women vehicles, it's been the same for Star Wars (another fanbase full of sad geeks).

Making a joke about them, no problem with me. They sure should be mocked in my view. I just think it's aiming very very low to make that the main point of your finale. Let's just say this one's a miss.

 

[Garo]

This show takes place in the United States.

I have never heard of a woman in the United Stated be prosecuted for assaulting their rapist.

I have never heard of a woman in the United States be executed for being raped.



That is a perfect example of the poor writing.

The vast majority of police officers are good people.

This woman just had her sexual encounter released publicly.

In the real world, those creeps at the gala would be arrested and she would be taken home.

Also, she is a celebrity.

In the real world, she would be given the benefit of the doubt compared to a regular woman.

I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about any of this?



They are not just poking fun at "extremely silly criticism" they are poking fun at "any" criticism.



It's sexist because all the people in the group were men.

There are plenty of women who have criticized this show, but, the writers pretend it's only men.

- So a woman was jailed to force her testimony against her rapist. Another had her rape kit used against her. Both stories were written last month. I'm now very confident the United States will always do the best thing possible for sexual assault victims.

- "In the real world" the victim doesn't turn into a giant monster that destroys property and assaults people that objectively did nothing. This has nothing to do with "cops being good people" or whatever talking point. Damage Control being aggressively preemptive was also noted in the MCU previously. Well, I guess they were also badly written, which is... convenient. It's just a bit odd to dimiss continuity as poorly written, to instead use real world examples that just have little meaning here because, again, giant monster.

- So is A Streetcar Named Desire sexist? The villain is a specific group of trolls online that, well, are a thing, and happened to be mostly men. I'm just very baffled at the leap going from "specific group of people being targeted for ridicule" to "every criticism is sexist because of the focus on this group". And I mean, there was plenty of women in that writers group that she was harshly criticizing... Unless those don't count I suppose, but you could easily see someone ranting about how She-hulk believes women can't write based on that scene.

Making a joke about them, no problem with me. They sure should be mocked in my view. I just think it's aiming very very low to make that the main point of your finale. Let's just say this one's a miss.

I get that but you also criticized the stakes from her slut-shaming being dropped - for the record, I do agree that this was a big time missed opportunity - which would have still led you to those same people.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

- So a woman was jailed to force her testimony against her rapist. Another had her rape kit used against her. Both stories were written last month. I'm now very confident the United States will always do the best thing possible for sexual assault victims.

Yeah, going for the "in the US of A, we're brighter than that" argument was doomed.

I get that but you also criticized the stakes from her slut-shaming being dropped - for the record, I do agree that this was a big time missed opportunity - which would have still led you to those same people.

As I said after the previous episode: The slut-shaming wasn't really it for me: even if a little more relevant, the Intelligentsia stuff is too much in extension of the "ew, men" facilité and isn't in itself bringing much more. It's what came after that could have been interesting, her reaction to this attack on her intimacy, and society not being able to manage that reaction (why I said her jailing was going the right way).

Anyway, we agree they should have aimed at higher stakes.

 

[Satans Hockey]

Anyway, the only thing I take away from the whole thing is how lame they've made Murdock. Let's hope they've got better writers to fix this for his own show, he was such a great character on Netflix.

His fight scenes were fantastic and reminded me of the Netflix series. I liked the banter between Jen and him. Hard to tell at all what the series is gonna be like with him from this to me.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Missed opportunity to take the show in a more meaningful direction following the slut-shaming.

Like most, loved the intro. For the rest, just glad it's over.

They did.. but realistically in a 30 minute episode how much quality could they get in?

Credit to going in a different direction and originality to the ending completely shattering the fourth wall. IMO they tried to be a bit too funny with that which led to an anti-climatic ending. But I guess that was kind of the point that every Marvel movie had these sort of wild finishes and this wasn't one of those. Landing was a bit sloppy.

But the Hulk twist at the end was a fun bombshell.

Lots of fun easter eggs overall in a show that was filled with fun easter eggs. I guess the next question is for the new Daredevil reboot, will we see She-Hulk and in a different tone?

 

[Babe Ruth]

And like, are they not allowed to poke fun at an extremely silly criticism that they obviously predicted? Why is doing that meaning they are being sexist and insulting? I'm sorry but, what? This is surreal to read.

Hi.. I don't think anyone has said She-Hulk critics were off-limits from criticism. I think it's more the tone of how they were attacked (not poked fun at). The depiction of the male critics was a perfect storm of mean-spirited, negative stereotypes.. there was nothing good natured about the show's satire. I think it was about an insecure show trying to demolish their critics. I'm not a hardcore comic book fan, but I don't dismiss comic book fanatics as 'clowns' and 'sad geeks' like Pranzo has posted. The finalé made She-Hulk critics out solely as frustrated, chauvinistic incels. There was no nuance. And they have a creative right to do that. But why pretend that it was good-natured ribbing, etc. And it seems unwise to be so harsh on what I assume is a large segment of their audience. This show doesn't seem to be something that transcends the comic book genre. /peace

 

[Garo]

I'm not a hardcore comic book fan, but I don't dismiss comic book fanatics as 'clowns' and 'sad geeks' like Pranzo has posted. The finalé made She-Hulk critics out solely as frustrated, chauvinistic incels. There was no nuance. And they have a creative right to do that. But why pretend that it was good-natured ribbing, etc.

Honestly this is why I fail to get a handle on your whole post, because who you are characterizing is a bit all over the place. Let's recap: this show's villain has always been that very specific part of the "manosphere". Their characterization of it, on the whole, has been pretty much on point. But that's not really comic book fanatics, or more generally critics. I'm pretty sure Pranzo was also talking about these people as well... I think we both hated the last Star Wars movie because, holy frick, and I would agree with him that there was a bunch of very sad people that showed their colours in their criticism there. I just still don't get how that translates to all criticism of the show.

I don't really think the tone was good-natured throughout either, but after seeing way too much of the manosphere for a lifetime... I woudn't want it to be good natured much. It definitely could have been way harsher on it, but it maintained the tone of a fairly light comedy, sometimes again to its actual detriment. If anything then I see the tone as too positive for its subject matter, considering how alarming the spread of those ideas through social media actually is. As it's one of the most popular shows right now to touch on it, that is for sure a missed opportunity.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Hi.. I don't think anyone has said She-Hulk critics were off-limits from criticism. I think it's more the tone of how they were attacked (not poked fun at). The depiction of the male critics was a perfect storm of mean-spirited, negative stereotypes.. there was nothing good natured about the show's satire. I think it was about an insecure show trying to demolish their critics. I'm not a hardcore comic book fan, but I don't dismiss comic book fanatics as 'clowns' and 'sad geeks' like Pranzo has posted. The finalé made She-Hulk critics out solely as frustrated, chauvinistic incels. There was no nuance. And they have a creative right to do that. But why pretend that it was good-natured ribbing, etc. And it seems unwise to be so harsh on what I assume is a large segment of their audience. This show doesn't seem to be something that transcends the comic book genre. /peace

Just to be clear, I don't equate comics fans, or SW fans, to sad losers. I watch myself everything from these universe, and I am quite enjoying Andor at the moment. One just has to admit that these fanbases have loads of dumb insecure males with a highly conservative understanding of the world who react negatively to most things not (white, hetero) male-centered. These are the clowns I was refering to.

I mostly agree with you though, the show's generalized "ew men" simplistic discourse was not only weak as f***, but missed its marks by a mile, and the payoff felt petty and misguided.

 

[AlanHUK]

I'd give them props for trying something different.

Don't think this will have too much in terms of it being rewatchable.

It did seem like they used this to take shots at a section of the internet (youtube specifically) they were pretty much spot on with the commentary that appeared from that group of angry folks each time they did it.

Fun show, but there was an opportunity for so much more with it which is kinda disappointing.

 

[beowulf]

I really enjoyed the homage to the old Hulk TV Show intro.


There rest of the episode fell flat.


After having a sexual encounter released publicly, I cannot understand how Jen could be arrested, Hulk or not.

Then, at the end of the episode, she is magically exonerated when it's not clear why she was arrested in the first place.


The attempt to label anyone who dislikes any aspect of the show as a "men who hate women" is both sexist and insulting.


K.E.V.I.N. should have been Mojo, which would have made the wackiness of that scene more palatable.


Tatiana Maslany deserved better writing and did the best with what she was given.


I'm not sure what Disney/Marvel was attempting with this show, but, it came across as pandering, rushed and taking the fans for granted.

Ohh gawd. Maybe you are not getting it, it's not about just this show but Marvel movies and maybe other movies/shows with strong female leads who get shat on and review bombed by incels and the like is what the episode and shows in general has commented on.

Again you didn't get it and that is too bad for you but there was no pandering or being rushed and didn't take real fans for granted. It was a legal comedy and social/MCU in general commentary and responded in a way to a lot of the comments/criticisms of critics/fans like complaints at times about CGI for example.

I liked it, fit well with how the comic is in many respects, as for example the panels Jussi posted above. And revealing Skaar was great.

 

[Commander Clueless]

That episode....what the HELL was that?

They went full ridiculous.


Call me crazy, but I actually.....loved it?



Might be a bit weird coming from someone who doesn't really care for the 4th wall breaks, but sometimes something goes so far it just makes you sit back and go "WTF" .....in a fun way.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I don't think people criticizing it for "not going deep enough" are watching the right show for that.

I think the finale in particular cemented this as a goofy comedy show



Sometimes comedy is just what it is: poking fun at society. There's "value" in that as well, because it makes you laugh and also assess just how silly life is sometimes.

And also sometimes it's just fun. You don't always need to be profound.