Online Series: She-Hulk Disney+

[Jussi]

Clearly you've never watched Bluey

And I don't think Marvel defines their fans by age groups.

 

[x Tame Impala]

And I don't think Marvel defines their fans by age groups.

Maybe you don’t. But the material is not for adults IMHO

 

[Babe Ruth]

I fail to get a handle on your whole post, because who you are characterizing is a bit all over the place.
I don't really think the tone was good-natured throughout either, but after seeing way too much of the manosphere for a lifetime... I woudn't want it to be good natured much..a missed opportunity.

Earlier in the thread you stated that the show was just 'poking fun' at She-Hulk's (real and perceived) chauvinistic critics. I responded that the show was writing a mean-spirited stereotype (lacking any nuance). The chauvinists were depicted as pathetic embodiments of Comic book guy. Now you're admitting it wasn't good-natured poking fun, that the insulting stereotyping was well-deserved, and you wished they had basically gone harder. So what dont you understand about my post. I said the stereotyping was not done in fun, you seem to agree.
And like I said, She-Hulk reserves the right to create any kinda characters they want, but why pretend like it was done as some noble 'teachable moment'. It's about insecure writers showing their disdain for those fans.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Same problem as usual. The MCU has one foot in aiming for younger people and the other foot in making the show interesting to adults. It can’t be both. Any sort of issue the show “addresses” can’t be done intellectually or meaningfully while catering to this wide spectrum of viewers. Fundamentally these shows are for young people but targeted towards adults. Of course we get a discrepancy of opinion on theme and execution.

When the show tries to say something intelligent it still comes off as juvenile

There's something absurdly amazing about it all. Even though the feminist discourse was a fail IMO, the fact that it's even attempted to address some of these things through children tales of superheroes, it's still kind of fascinating. I'm a fan of horror and sci-fi films, and the best ones offer some pretty serious readings despite the grandguignol, so I'm not against it at all. I just wish it was done either more subtly, or more exhaustively.

Earlier in the thread you stated that the show was just 'poking fun' at She-Hulk's (real and perceived) chauvinistic critics. I responded that the show was writing a mean-spirited stereotype (lacking any nuance). The chauvinists were depicted as pathetic embodiments of Comic book guy. Now you're admitting it wasn't good-natured poking fun, that the insulting stereotyping was well-deserved, and you wished they had basically gone harder. So what dont you understand about my post. I said the stereotyping was not done in fun, you seem to agree.
And like I said, She-Hulk reserves the right to create any kinda characters they want, but why pretend like it was done as some noble 'teachable moment'. It's about insecure writers showing their disdain for those fans.

Do these fans react to the show negatively because they're feeling attacked and stigmatized by it? It's an honest question, I don't really read comments outside of here. If they do, I guess it works better than I gave it credit for (or that I thought it would/should, given how lame it all was). I guess that would be a win for the writers/creators - doesn't make the show any good IMO, but it's better than nothing.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

This show... is one of the worst things I have ever seen.

The writing is just abysmal. It's not good as a Marvel show, it's not good as a sitcom, it's certainly not good as an adaptation of the (rather excellent) character of She-Hulk.

I would say that the issue, as with many recent shows, is the writing. I don't know who they have working as the showrunner on these things, but this show is just a mess. Jen is arrogant, priveleged, whiny, and doesn't take any accountability for... anything really. To call the rest of the cast cardboard cutouts would be an insult to cardboard cutouts. The plot is so bad that they actually call out how bad the plot is in the finale, at which point priveleged Karen yells at the writers to give her an unearned happy ending. At least they're self aware I guess.

This is just content, and I mean that in the worst way possible. A box of nothing shoveled down our throat till the next box of nothing comes along.

Now you might be saying: "Hey, it isn't that bad. It's cute, etc."

To that, I say, go read some She-Hulk. Go read Dan Slott's run. Go read Byrne's run. You have Disney Plus, right? Go watch the version of this show that is actually good, which is Ally McBeal. Look at the writing in that and then come back to this. It's not good.

She Hulk gets my official trashfire award of 2022, which is pretty impressive in a year that contained Kenobi.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

This show... is one of the worst things I have ever seen.

The writing is just abysmal. It's not good as a Marvel show, it's not good as a sitcom, it's certainly not good as an adaptation of the (rather excellent) character of She-Hulk.

I would say that the issue, as with many recent shows, is the writing. I don't know who they have working as the showrunner on these things, but this show is just a mess. Jen is arrogant, priveleged, whiny, and doesn't take any accountability for... anything really. To call the rest of the cast cardboard cutouts would be an insult to cardboard cutouts. The plot is so bad that they actually call out how bad the plot is in the finale, at which point priveleged Karen yells at the writers to give her an unearned happy ending. At least they're self aware I guess.

This is just content, and I mean that in the worst way possible. A box of nothing shoveled down our throat till the next box of nothing comes along.

Now you might be saying: "Hey, it isn't that bad. It's cute, etc."

To that, I say, go read some She-Hulk. Go read Dan Slott's run. Go read Byrne's run. You have Disney Plus, right? Go watch the version of this show that is actually good, which is Ally McBeal. Look at the writing in that and then come back to this. It's not good.

She Hulk gets my official trashfire award of 2022, which is pretty impressive in a year that contained Kenobi.

Well, I haven't read any She-Hulk comics and I've never seen Ally McBeal, but this seems right on target to me!

 

[Jussi]

Well, I haven't read any She-Hulk comics and I've never seen Ally McBeal, but this seems right on target to me!

Read the free comic behind the QR code on the writers room door. I've never read one before but I now understand the show. I hope season 2 goes to the same lengths as the comic.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

Well, I haven't read any She-Hulk comics and I've never seen Ally McBeal, but this seems right on target to me!

It's not like I'm the target demo for Ally fricking McBeal mind you, but the writing is so far ahead of this that I'm questioning what the Hell their hiring practices for multimillion dollar shows are these days. Like is this all one big money laundering scheme or something?

 

[beowulf]

Maybe you don’t. But the material is not for adults IMHO

I don't see how it is not with a ton of jokes and scenes in this show not for kids really. Marvels Zombies and Deadpool 3 are both expected to be rated for adults and Werewolf by Night was also just below an NC-17 rating.

 

[Satans Hockey]

I don't see how it is not with a ton of jokes and scenes in this show not for kids really. Marvels Zombies and Deadpool 3 are both expected to be rated for adults and Werewolf by Night was also just below an NC-17 rating.

I had to look it up cause I didn't think it was that graphic but werewolf by night is rated TV-14

 

[Jussi]

Since most of YOU PEOPLE have never watched Moonlighting or even heard of it, this was the ending of that show:

 

[beowulf]

I had to look it up cause I didn't think it was that graphic but werewolf by night is rated TV-14

Ya supposedly they thought of making it NC-17 or R or whatever it is these days but decided to scale it back even though I didn't find it particularly scary or adult only stuff.

 

[Satans Hockey]

Ya supposedly they thought of making it NC-17 or R or whatever it is these days but decided to scale it back even though I didn't find it particularly scary or adult only stuff.

Gotcha I assume R then because NC-17 is above R and nobody 17 and under can get in. I enjoyed it and didn't really think it needed an R rating just to get some more blood or gore.

 

[beowulf]

Gotcha I assume R then because NC-17 is above R and nobody 17 and under can get in. I enjoyed it and didn't really think it needed an R rating just to get some more blood or gore.

Ya I think they are different in each country, what they are named etc.

For example from what I could find TV in the US has this list

• TV-Y: All Children. ...
• TV-Y7: Directed to Older Children. ...
• TV-Y7 FV: Directed to Older Children - Fantasy Violence. ...
• TV-G: General Audience. ...
• TV-PG: Parental Guidance Suggested. ...
• TV-14: Parents Strongly Cautioned. ...

In Canada the list looks like this for us

E	Exempt
G	General programming, suitable for all audiences
PG	Parental guidance
14+	Viewers 14 year and older
18+	Adult programming

Same things with movies.

 

[Hasbro]

In Canada the list looks like this for us

E	Exempt
G	General programming, suitable for all audiences
PG	Parental guidance
14+	Viewers 14 year and older
18+	Adult programming

Same things with movies.

But you use metric up there.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

Since most of YOU PEOPLE have never watched Moonlighting or even heard of it, this was the ending of that show:

I unfortunately didn't see this show (slightly before my time), but didn't it always do this kind of stuff?

 

[Jussi]

I unfortunately didn't see this show (slightly before my time), but didn't it always do this kind of stuff?

Yes but the finale took it to another level.

Though season 2 gave us a taster:



Actually the whole episode is on YT though it seems the audio is slightly altered (video should start earlier in the same scene:

 

[Commander Clueless]

But you use metric up there.

Metric age is roughly 0.9x Imperial age. Hence why Canadians can typically drink a little sooner.

 

[Commander Clueless]

At least they're self aware I guess.

I think that's the joke.

Like not just A joke, but THE joke.

Absolutely everything is framed in that context, which makes a lot of the earlier strange things make sense.


Understandable if that style of humour is not your thing, but I think reading too much into anything else is self-defeating.

Personally, I enjoyed it for what it was.


Full points for the awesome GIF though.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

I think that's the joke.

Like not just A joke, but THE joke.

Absolutely everything is framed in that context, which makes a lot of the earlier strange things make sense.


Understandable if that style of humour is not your thing, but I think reading too much into anything else is self-defeating.

Personally, I enjoyed it for what it was.


Full points for the awesome GIF though.

I just kind of expect things to be good, with likeable, semi 3-dimensional characters. When I see something as shallow and lazy as this, I long for the days of Kenobi and its plot holes. I mean... Is "ha ha, our show sucks" the joke we're supposed to laugh at?

I don't know what they did to poor Shulkie, but this ain't her. Tatiana is an awesome actress and deserved better.

And thanks re:the gif lol

 

[Babe Ruth]

the feminist discourse was a fail IMO, the fact that it's even attempted to address some of these things through children tales of superheroes, it's still kind of fascinating.
Do these fans react to the show negatively because they're feeling attacked and stigmatized by it? It's an honest question..I guess that would be a win for the writers/creators - doesn't make the show any good IMO, but it's better than nothing.

The (Feminist) discourse you mentioned is baked into this series I assume, because it's a most popular entertainment genre now, and is traditionally disproportionately male. It has a large target market. She-Hulk writers probably figured this series would be an ideal, captive audience to bludgeon.
I agree with you, their message failed, my opinion because it's delivery was cruel & heavy-handed. It didn't make their message sympathetic. Even tho at it's core, it is, maybe..
If they're saying: female heroines have a different set of unfair standards to abide, if they're saying it's difficult to sell female characters to prejudiced guys.. then that is a cause I have personal empathy for..
But if comic book consumers don't wanna hear that message, or be beat over the head with insulting stereotypes, I'm personally ok with that response.

I do honestly think that male comic book fans are hurt by negative sterotypes (as pathetic, womanless incels, etc).

I think they're being humiliated because they're easy targets to ridicule and shame. And the stereotypes are specifically aimed at their manhood, because I think (in this case) it is a petty battle of the sexes being waged by the She-Hulk writers. She-Hulk has every right to deliver their message, but in defense of these guys.. don't urinate on 'em, and tell 'em it's just raining. That is really my true point. She-Hulk deep fried these guys because they hate them, and are larping like it was brave, thoughtful social commentary.
And I hadn't heard if there's gonna be a 2nd season, but I'm gonna watch..

 

[Scandale du Jour]

The (Feminist) discourse you mentioned is baked into this series I assume, because it's a most popular entertainment genre now, and is traditionally disproportionately male. It has a large target market. She-Hulk writers probably figured this series would be an ideal, captive audience to bludgeon.
I agree with you, their message failed, my opinion because it's delivery was cruel & heavy-handed. It didn't make their message sympathetic. Even tho at it's core, it is, maybe..
If they're saying: female heroines have a different set of unfair standards to abide, if they're saying it's difficult to sell female characters to prejudiced guys.. then that is a cause I have personal empathy for..
But if comic book consumers don't wanna hear that message, or be beat over the head with insulting stereotypes, I'm personally ok with that response.

I do honestly think that male comic book fans are hurt by negative sterotypes (as pathetic, womanless incels, etc).

I think they're being humiliated because they're easy targets to ridicule and shame. And the stereotypes are specifically aimed at their manhood, because I think (in this case) it is a petty battle of the sexes being waged by the She-Hulk writers. She-Hulk has every right to deliver their message, but in defense of these guys.. don't urinate on 'em, and tell 'em it's just raining. That is really my true point. She-Hulk deep fried these guys because they hate them, and are larping like it was brave, thoughtful social commentary.
And I hadn't heard if there's gonna be a 2nd season, but I'm gonna watch..

I get what you are saying here, but I kinda disagree.

I agree that all "nerds" who have trouble getting girls are NOT sexist! I do agree that they use a pretty broad brush in She Hulk to attack a phenomenon. However, if one feels attacked, they might want to take a long hard look at how they view women. The stereotype they depict unfortunately more prevalent than we want to admit. The behavior against women I mean, not the "ugly nerd who cannot get girls" cliche. That one, I could do without and I think the show kinda did.

 

[Guardian17]

 

[Say Hey Kid]

The John Byrne She-Hulk comic was great. He wrote and drew greater Marvel and DC superhero comics in the 80s than anyone, including his Superman reboot.

 

[Stealth1616]

Through 6 episodes in this series. Is there any kind of plot that starts formulating or nah ?