TSN: Shawn Thornton suspended 15 games

[bruinsfan001]

I think the biggest issue is you have the same group of people making the decisions every time. So your seeing the same thought process over and over, thats a mistake because its a biased approach. It should be treated just as a real trial would be treated and have a random "jury" or panel for every incidence, that would keep things more consistent and fair IMO.

 

[happyday]

It is amazing. I was thinking the same thing when McQuaid and Nystrom landed those two huge punches at the same time. Massive. ...and the fight went on.

If Brooks took that punch...he'd wake up next week...if at all.

Haha. The real answer is that Brooks probably wasn't KO'd by the short, helmeted fall, or two gloved taps. He put on a good show that he knew people would buy. That is wild conspiracy theory to most...but people need to wake up and realize everything isn't on the up and up. Players embellish injury for an advantage all the time...and there is no such thing as going to far...

What if Marchand took a stretcher ride after the Neal hit? More than five games? Sure. ...and probably a 5 min PP after the refs get together, and the crowd goes crazy calling for Neal's head...

You can win a game on the extended PP.

The players know how the system works.

A silly notion at best. Why would a top 2 defenceman on an injury plagued team fake injury to lengthen a fourth liner's suspension? I could see a player faking injury short term (as Marchand does) in order to draw a stiffer penalty. However, Orpik has missed a couple of weeks.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

A silly notion at best. Why would a top 2 defenceman on an injury plagued team fake injury to lengthen a fourth liner's suspension? I could see a player faking injury short term (as Marchand does) in order to draw a stiffer penalty. However, Orpik has missed a couple of weeks.

Orpik is no top 2 defensemen, he'd be our Adam McQuaid (except who doesn't stand up for his actions).

Efully the arbitrator sides with Thornton and embarasses the **** out of the NHL and Buttman.

 

[GloveSave1]

A silly notion at best. Why would a top 2 defenceman on an injury plagued team fake injury to lengthen a fourth liner's suspension? I could see a player faking injury short term (as Marchand does) in order to draw a stiffer penalty. However, Orpik has missed a couple of weeks.

Believe what you want to believe. Why would a small fall with a helmet on and two short gloved shots to the face put a guy out for weeks? If you played hockey, and I'm not saying you haven't, you'd know that what we saw doesn't put a guy out for weeks. It doesn't...no matter how much of a glass jaw people think Orpik has. As I said in a previous post, what happened out there wouldn't put Justin Beiber on the shelf.

Brooks set up Thornton, knew Thornton very well might do something stupid, and planned on taking a stretcher ride. It was easy. Too easy. Just as plausible as what he received causing serious injury IMO. After all the reaction around the league, Brooks felt obligated to say his head hurt, and the doctors told him to take it easy. I'd bet the reaction was more than Orpic expected, but he rolled with it.

As has been said, ad nauseam, Brooks was out of the hospital in time to catch the flight a few hours later. Something that doesn't happen much with a serious head injury, I've heard.

But whatever. These are just inconvenient truths.

Brooks couldn't possibly be faking! It's impossible. It would be much too hard.

But if you think about it...not that hard. Fall, stare at the ceiling and drool a lil , collect the PP, take a ride, catch the flight, say my head hurts, come back in a few weeks.

Pretty go with the flow.

There are a lot of people in power, in the media, and in the stands that believe only what's in front of their eyes...and the players know it.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Let me ask you all about the hypothesis I've kinda come to: If the suspension for Neal's intentional knee to Marchand's head was closer in length to Thornton's suspension, either by Neal's being longer, or Thornton's shorter, would there be as big an uproar?

 

[LSCII]

Let me ask you all about the hypothesis I've kinda come to: If the suspension for Neal's intentional knee to Marchand's head was closer in length to Thornton's suspension, either by Neal's being longer, or Thornton's shorter, would there be as big an uproar?

Nope.

 

[ReggieMoto]

Let me ask you all about the hypothesis I've kinda come to: If the suspension for Neal's intentional knee to Marchand's head was closer in length to Thornton's suspension, either by Neal's being longer, or Thornton's shorter, would there be as big an uproar?

Nope.

Agree...nope.

Also, if there had been some kind of suspension of Emery during his premeditated unprovoked attack on an unwilling participant outside of a "hockey play", assuming it had been of a consequential length, I think there wouldn't have been as much of an outcry.

But it starts with the lack of real consistency regarding the knee.

 

[EverettMike]

Let me ask you all about the hypothesis I've kinda come to: If the suspension for Neal's intentional knee to Marchand's head was closer in length to Thornton's suspension, either by Neal's being longer, or Thornton's shorter, would there be as big an uproar?

Nope.

 

[bb_fan]

I would love too see an anonymous poll of players asking about the Orpik hit (do players feel it was a 'clean' hit that went awry or was it a 'clean' hit that was dangerous reckless and had the clear intent of inflicting injury, be it minor or major) and based on that what other players feel about Thorntons reactiin and what he did.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

It's not about getting back sooner, it's about recouping salary. Thornton is not a multi-millionaire, and 15 games takes a significant bite out of his bank account. Getting the suspension reduced by even a couple of games would mean a lot.

Not really.

Due to his first-timer status, it's 15/195 and not 15/82.

$1.1M divided by 13 is more or less $85K gross, about $45K net.

Each game is about $3,000 after taxes.

 

[Artemis]

Not really.

Due to his first-timer status, it's 15/195 and not 15/82.

$1.1M divided by 13 is more or less $85K gross, about $45K net.

Each game is about $3,000 after taxes.

What?

 

[DominicT]

Not really.

Due to his first-timer status, it's 15/195 and not 15/82.

$1.1M divided by 13 is more or less $85K gross, about $45K net.

Each game is about $3,000 after taxes.

Players are paid by the day not by the game which is 195 days or $5641.03 per day. His lost salary then becomes 15 games X his daily salary or $84,615.00

Taking 2 games off the suspension would save him $11,292.06

Oh, and since it still counts against the players share of their HRR. he still pays escrow on it. That 11 grand would cover his escrow and then some, that would otherwise have to come out of his pocket.

 

[Artemis]

Players are paid by the day not by the game which is 195 days or $5641.03 per day. His lost salary then becomes 15 games X his daily salary or $84,615.00

Taking 2 games off the suspension would save him $11,292.06

Oh, and since it still counts against the players share of their HRR. he still pays escrow on it. That 11 grand would cover his escrow and then some, that would otherwise have to come out of his pocket.

Thanks, Dom. That's pretty damn significant.

 

[DominicT]

Thanks, Dom. That's pretty damn significant.

Anytime Arty. I should clarify, the escrow on it wouldn't come directly out of his pocket, but future paychecks - however, it's still a cost to Thornton

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Dom, since you're here - I have a question for you. It's related to the question I asked up above about the relative length of Neal's and Thornton's suspensions. Given the reactions to both suspensions, do you have any insight on whether anyone in the league feels like the two suspensions should have been closer in length? I think I remember you saying that they felt like Thornton's should have (could have) been longer. Any idea of their feelings on Neal's?

 

[DominicT]

Dom, since you're here - I have a question for you. It's related to the question I asked up above about the relative length of Neal's and Thornton's suspensions. Given the reactions to both suspensions, do you have any insight on whether anyone in the league feels like the two suspensions should have been closer in length? I think I remember you saying that they felt like Thornton's should have (could have) been longer. Any idea of their feelings on Neal's?

Suspensions in the NHL, whether now or under Shanahan or previously under Campbell, have had input from many people. And there is never 100% agreement.

I often see people often complaining about NHL Player safety and calling for a committee to hand out suspensions. I have the exact opposite position. While there is one person at the head of Player Safety (Shanahan) there are others that help come to a conclusion.

I believe that there would be more consistency/fairer suspensions, if the responsibility fell to just one person. Almost an impossible task to ask of one person however. But when you have several people involved, opinions very, and they can't even agree on what it is they are seeing.

Failing that, my second choice would be to have the current process where a supervisor at a game or the war room in Toronto deem a hit/action is worthy of review, then it go to an independent arbitrator. Unfortunately, his/her decision would be final with no chance of appeal.

That said, I am as sure as I could possibly be that there are people within the NHL that feel both Thornton and Neal's actions were worthy of longer suspensions.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Thanks Dom. I don't know if you know how much we appreciate your insight here.

 

[DominicT]

Thanks Dom. I don't know if you know how much we appreciate your insight here.

NP

I should add this though. Of a dozen suspensions in the OHL, I was able to easily predict 10 of them bang on. And the reason is simple. Consistency. Whether one agrees with what they deem suspendable is irrelevant here. If they are anything, its fair, even across the board and consistent with no grey areas - simply put, its black and white.

Reason: same person is responsible for reviewing and dishing out suspensions - on his own.

Again, hard to do in the NHL for one person. 30 teams vs 20, is a major difference. But I think we'd see much more consistency

 

[Glove Malfunction]

NP

I should add this though. Of a dozen suspensions in the OHL, I was able to easily predict 10 of them bang on. And the reason is simple. Consistency. Whether one agrees with what they deem suspendable is irrelevant here. If they are anything, its fair, even across the board and consistent with no grey areas - simply put, its black and white.

Reason: same person is responsible for reviewing and dishing out suspensions - on his own.

Again, hard to do in the NHL for one person. 30 teams vs 20, is a major difference. But I think we'd see much more consistency

I think we'd all like to see more consistency in the NHL. IN both suspensions and on-ice officiating. When you get at the heart of the complaints you see in the various threads here, it seems a large percentage of them can be boiled down to a (real or imagined) lack of consistency.

 

[Lobster57]

NP

I should add this though. Of a dozen suspensions in the OHL, I was able to easily predict 10 of them bang on. And the reason is simple. Consistency. Whether one agrees with what they deem suspendable is irrelevant here. If they are anything, its fair, even across the board and consistent with no grey areas - simply put, its black and white.

Reason: same person is responsible for reviewing and dishing out suspensions - on his own.

Again, hard to do in the NHL for one person. 30 teams vs 20, is a major difference. But I think we'd see much more consistency

It's similar to the 2 ref system. With one ref you had a pretty good idea before the game even started how it was going to be called. With 2 it gets tricky, because 2 guy may let more hooking and holding go but be a little bit quicker to call a roughing or cross checking call. the other guy may let more go after the whistle and be all over the littlest bit of interference.

Completely off track but is there a way of tracking which ref called which penalties during a game?

 

[TCL40]

I think if they already have a committee then each of hose people need to be clearly named to it and it needs to be official. Right now there are essentially secret committee members and they get to avoid criticism.

I would be okay with one person if there were real consistency and I want the NHL to move away from injury being more of a deciding factor than the act.

Headshots shouldn't get less just because the player hit got lucky. The NHL just seems to be more about the injury but the real problem is the act itself.

 

[Buckets and Gloves]

Believe what you want to believe. Why would a small fall with a helmet on and two short gloved shots to the face put a guy out for weeks? If you played hockey, and I'm not saying you haven't, you'd know that what we saw doesn't put a guy out for weeks. It doesn't...no matter how much of a glass jaw people think Orpik has. As I said in a previous post, what happened out there wouldn't put Justin Beiber on the shelf.

Brooks set up Thornton, knew Thornton very well might do something stupid, and planned on taking a stretcher ride. It was easy. Too easy. Just as plausible as what he received causing serious injury IMO. After all the reaction around the league, Brooks felt obligated to say his head hurt, and the doctors told him to take it easy. I'd bet the reaction was more than Orpic expected, but he rolled with it.

As has been said, ad nauseam, Brooks was out of the hospital in time to catch the flight a few hours later. Something that doesn't happen much with a serious head injury, I've heard.

But whatever. These are just inconvenient truths.

Brooks couldn't possibly be faking! It's impossible. It would be much too hard.

But if you think about it...not that hard. Fall, stare at the ceiling and drool a lil , collect the PP, take a ride, catch the flight, say my head hurts, come back in a few weeks.

Pretty go with the flow.

There are a lot of people in power, in the media, and in the stands that believe only what's in front of their eyes...and the players know it.

Wow...

Just wow.

I don't like Orpick or how he throws questionable hits and refuses to answer the bell... but why would he fake being taked out on a stretcher just to get a 4th liner (who may not even be in the league next year because he is so slow) suspended multiple games?

I don't get it... and even if he did fake it, why stay out?...

What would be Orpick's endgame other than to see a 4th liner sit a few games? Makes no sense... I felt for the last bit having Thornton dressed has hurt the team more than him sitting.... Why would Orpick want to help us and consequently hurt his team by sitting out?

Just pure sillyness here brah.

 

[SerenityRick]

Wow...

Just wow.

I don't like Orpick or how he throws questionable hits and refuses to answer the bell... but why would he fake being taked out on a stretcher just to get a 4th liner (who may not even be in the league next year because he is so slow) suspended multiple games?

I don't get it... and even if he did fake it, why stay out?...

What would be Orpick's endgame other than to see a 4th liner sit a few games? Makes no sense... I felt for the last bit having Thornton dressed has hurt the team more than him sitting.... Why would Orpick want to help us and consequently hurt his team by sitting out?

Just pure sillyness here brah.

I'm not saying I agree with him, but because of guaranteed salaries and IR and whatnot, he still gets paid the same amount. If he's faking it or exaggerating the injury, that's a two week paid vacation. Depending on the dude's personality, he might be A-OK with doing that to his team..

And given that after cheapshotting Loui Eriksson he wouldn't go with Dougie Hamilton of all people ... who has yet to have his first NHL fight.. he doesn't seem like a stand up guy... at all.

 

[pete87]

Depending on the dude's personality, he might be A-OK with doing that to his team..

As a Pens fans, I just want to add that this is not Orpik's personality. He's one of the most stand-up guys on the team. He's our longest tenured player at this point and an assistant captain. He was thought to be the next captain until Sid came along.

I know I'll probably get flamed for posting here. But I felt I should at least add that to the conversation.

 

[Artemis]

As a Pens fans, I just want to add that this is not Orpik's personality. He's one of the most stand-up guys on the team. He's our longest tenured player at this point and an assistant captain. He was thought to be the next captain until Sid came along.

I know I'll probably get flamed for posting here. But I felt I should at least add that to the conversation.

I don't doubt Orpik is probably a decent guy off the ice, but to label someone with a reputation for delivering borderline hits and refusing to answer for them as "one of the most stand-up guys on the team" is a perfect example of what's wrong with that franchise.