Seriously, who REALLY has a chance against the Pens?

[olli]

Washington with playoff Holtby before this year.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

If McFlash and friends go through...pens better start praying...the way the Oilers dismantled the Ducks in the second....they looked unstoppable....the only problem with the Oilers is consistency...that's the only way Nashville and any other team beats them...

Too fast too strong too talented

Good job jinxing them

 

[swflyers93]

The Preds or the Ducks have the complete team to go up against the Pens. Also the Rangers. The series isn't over yet.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If McFlash and friends go through...pens better start praying...the way the Oilers dismantled the Ducks in the second....they looked unstoppable....the only problem with the Oilers is consistency...that's the only way Nashville and any other team beats them...

Too fast too strong too talented

McFlash and his boys just lost. I am not worried about the Oilers at all. They are a top heavy team, Pens aren't. There is literally no Pens fan that would be "praying" because they have to face the Oilers, just an FYI.

Sid is set to return soon, so is Sheary and so is Murray.

Maybe the rest of the playoff teams should start praying.

The Preds or the Ducks have the complete team to go up against the Pens. Also the Rangers. The series isn't over yet.

With Crosby, Sheary, and Murray back?

I'm ok with our chances.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

The Preds or the Ducks have the complete team to go up against the Pens. Also the Rangers. The series isn't over yet.

I feel like I missed something here. What about the rangers now?

 

[puckyeah]

Pitt will face a real team in the finals so far they have played teams who have rolled over.

 

[c9777666]

The way things are going, Anaheim has had so much good fortune on their side that they may be Pittsburgh's match.

 

[syz]

Preds or Rangers could take a healthy Pittsburgh team to 5. Everybody else is looking at brooms.

The way things are going, Anaheim has had so much good fortune on their side that they may be Pittsburgh's match.

Two line team that spends half of every game looking dead. Pens would be impossible for Carlyle to match up against. Any of Pittsburgh's top 3 lines beats Kesler, and any of Pittsburgh's top 3 lines beats Getzlaf.

Assuming Crosby's brain still works, at least.

Although given Anaheim's luck thus far I wouldn't rule out Pittsburgh losing another 8 guys to injury before the finals.

 

[ohcomeonref]

Preds or Rangers could take a healthy Pittsburgh team to 5. Everybody else is looking at brooms.



Two line team that spends half of every game looking dead. Pens would be impossible for Carlyle to match up against. Any of Pittsburgh's top 3 lines beats Kesler, and any of Pittsburgh's top 3 lines beats Getzlaf.

Assuming Crosby's brain still works, at least.

Although given Anaheim's luck thus far I wouldn't rule out Pittsburgh losing another 8 guys to injury before the finals.

It's all luck. Solid, unbiased assessment.

 

[Open Mind]

Pens now down their #1 D, #1 C, and #1 G. If they can still pull off a cup win it would be one of the most impressive runs in history.

No it wouldn't. Roy carrying the Habs to a 16-4 record in '93 was impressive. The Pens are a team that drafted a Hart winning franchise center and then the next draft had a lottery ball hand them on top of that the best player in the world and another Hart winning center. 4 consecutive top 2 pics, two Hart winning first line centers in a row, Jordan Staal at 3C second overall the year after, the draw for free agents and guys to waive NTCs to play with Malkin and Crosby. How, exactly, in any way shape or form do you miss with all that?

In my years of watching, I can only think of Edmonton with Gretzky and Mess and Detroit with Yzerman and Fedorov, where any team had such an elite 1-2 punch at center. But Edmonton and Detroit won a heck of lot more than Pitt has and if anything the Pens have under-achieved with what they were handed.

 

[Scrantonicity 2]

If McFlash and friends go through...pens better start praying...the way the Oilers dismantled the Ducks in the second....they looked unstoppable....the only problem with the Oilers is consistency...that's the only way Nashville and any other team beats them...

Too fast too strong too talented

Funniest post of the thread so far.

 

[Tweed]

No it wouldn't. Roy carrying the Habs to a 16-4 record in '93 was impressive. The Pens are a team that drafted a Hart winning franchise center and then the next draft had a lottery ball hand them on top of that the best player in the world and another Hart winning center. 4 consecutive top 2 pics, two Hart winning first line centers in a row, Jordan Staal at 3C second overall the year after, the draw for free agents and guys to waive NTCs to play with Malkin and Crosby. How, exactly, in any way shape or form do you miss with all that?

In my years of watching, I can only think of Edmonton with Gretzky and Mess and Detroit with Yzerman and Fedorov, where any team had such an elite 1-2 punch at center. But Edmonton and Detroit won a heck of lot more than Pitt has and if anything the Pens have under-achieved with what they were handed.

I understand your point about the high draft picks. I just don't think it makes for a good argument against the guy you're quoting. Staal isn't here, Crosby is out, and you're not addressing them missing #1D and #1G. All you're really doing is highlighting how fortunate the team has been to land great players. But what difference does that make, if they aren't playing?

Also, I don't feel like UFAs clamour to come to Pittsburgh. At least I can't think of any off the top of my head. Are you talking about Matt Cullen?

As for 1-2 Punch, you forgot Lemieux-Francis But I'm not sure about Edm & Det winning a "heck of a lot more". Detroit only won 12 more Games than the Pens in the 90s. Edmonton's Win total in the 80s only beats Detroit's 90s by 30. And AFAIK, no team has won more game in the last decade than Sid's Pens.

In reality, winning 2 Cups is no underachievement. The thought back when Sid landed in the Burgh was aim for multiple Cups, and they've done that. Also, when a team is plagued with injuries, it's not really an underachievement, if they don't reach their goals... it's just a disappointment.

You make a solid point about Roy in '93 though.

 

[Open Mind]

I understand your point about the high draft picks. I just don't think it makes for a good argument against the guy you're quoting. Staal isn't here, Crosby is out, and you're not addressing them missing #1D and #1G. All you're really doing is highlighting how fortunate the team has been to land great players. But what difference does that make, if they aren't playing?

Also, I don't feel like UFAs clamour to come to Pittsburgh. At least I can't think of any off the top of my head. Are you talking about Matt Cullen?

As for 1-2 Punch, you forgot Lemieux-Francis But I'm not sure about Edm & Det winning a "heck of a lot more". Detroit only won 12 more Games than the Pens in the 90s. Edmonton's Win total in the 80s only beats Detroit's 90s by 30. And AFAIK, no team has won more game in the last decade than Sid's Pens.

In reality, winning 2 Cups is no underachievement. The thought back when Sid landed in the Burgh was aim for multiple Cups, and they've done that. Also, when a team is plagued with injuries, it's not really an underachievement, if they don't reach their goals... it's just a disappointment.

You make a solid point about Roy in '93 though.

Yes, Staal is gone, but ended up turning into Bonino, Dumoulin and a top-10 pick I believe. This creates better depth and easier salary management, while still leaving in place two Hart winning number one centers. Is Staal so easy to move on a team without two Hart centers? Agree with you, Pens are missing their 1G, but their first overall pick Stanley Cup winning backup goalie is in instead. Not exactly brutal. Losing Crosby is also a hit for sure, but Malkin goes beast mode in his absence (154 pts in 118 games sans Crosby). Who else has a "2C" like that? Barely anyone has a 1C anything remotely like that. Not to mention, Crosby may be back yet, so I am not sure he ends up entirely a loss in the end. Letang is a major hit. No way around that one.

Matt Cullen? No. Kessel, as an example, had a limited NMC and the Pens were one of his chosen 8 teams he could go to, which shows there is draw to Pitt for star players.

Apologies, I'm not talking top-end regular season winning, it frequently doesn't amount to much in the playoffs. In winning, I mean Cups. Sorry for not clarifying. Edmonton and Detroit each won 4 cups with the two centers I'd mentioned. I left off Lemieux-Francis for the same reasons I left off Sakic-Forsberg: health. I am looking at Cup totals and it isn't entirely fair to look at those two pairings in the sense that Lemieux and Forsberg lost significant prime years playing time to health/injuries.

 

[magnkarl]

Now that AV has started rolling his D-men the way they should be with Skjei, McDonagh and Smith taking heavy shifts I actually think the rangers could upset Pittsburgh. The rangers have a great record against Crosby et al in the playoffs so it would not be the first time. If anything I wouldn't be as confident if I was the pens with all those injuries, and matching up against the hardest hitting team in the playoffs in the rangers won't feel good in any way. Also Glass.

 

[NYRKindms]

Now that AV has started rolling his D-men the way they should be with Skjei, McDonagh and Smith taking heavy shifts I actually think the rangers could upset Pittsburgh. The rangers have a great record against Crosby et al in the playoffs so it would not be the first time. If anything I wouldn't be as confident if I was the pens with all those injuries, and matching up against the hardest hitting team in the playoffs in the rangers won't feel good in any way. Also Glass.

I think ive seen it all now.

 

[Vinny]

Remember Pit-Rangers 3-1 in the series? Rangers won. Capitals are not done yet. To much talent and to good of a team to already say they are done.

 

[Tweed]

Yes, Staal is gone, but ended up turning into Bonino, Dumoulin and a top-10 pick I believe. This creates better depth and easier salary management, while still leaving in place two Hart winning number one centers. Is Staal so easy to move on a team without two Hart centers? Agree with you, Pens are missing their 1G, but their first overall pick Stanley Cup winning backup goalie is in instead. Not exactly brutal. Losing Crosby is also a hit for sure, but Malkin goes beast mode in his absence (154 pts in 118 games sans Crosby). Who else has a "2C" like that? Barely anyone has a 1C anything remotely like that. Not to mention, Crosby may be back yet, so I am not sure he ends up entirely a loss in the end. Letang is a major hit. No way around that one.

Matt Cullen? No. Kessel, as an example, had a limited NMC and the Pens were one of his chosen 8 teams he could go to, which shows there is draw to Pitt for star players.

Apologies, I'm not talking top-end regular season winning, it frequently doesn't amount to much in the playoffs. In winning, I mean Cups. Sorry for not clarifying. Edmonton and Detroit each won 4 cups with the two centers I'd mentioned. I left off Lemieux-Francis for the same reasons I left off Sakic-Forsberg: health. I am looking at Cup totals and it isn't entirely fair to look at those two pairings in the sense that Lemieux and Forsberg lost significant prime years playing time to health/injuries.

Fair enough. I'll split the difference with ya... I think you could have just said... While they are missing 1C, 1D, 1G... they've got a 1C and 1G to fill two of those spots. I think bringing the draft stuff into it convoluted things a bit. I wouldn't have gone into the Staal = Bonino + Dumoulin + Pouliot bit, if I was taking up your end of the debate.

I didn't question you on the NMC stuff, because I thought maybe you were referencing Kessel, and possibly Iginla. But in all seriousness and in my tiredness, I can't think of a UFA that's clamoured to come this way. If anything, I kind of feel like they don't when they should. Hossa and Hamhuis I think left me with that impression. Who am I forgetting in UFA?

I also think it's pretty rough using the 80s Oilers against the Modern Penguins when measuring Cup-expectations. The Oil nabbed 4 in 5, on the heels of the Isles with 4. It definitely was a different time. As you know, Salary Cap + Parity + Yadda yadda. The Wings cups were spread out a bit, 4 in 11... but still very impressive. That said, we're only on year 7 since the first Modern Pens cup. I think we have to give them a chance and allot them the same amount of time as Wings, before we can say the Wings won a heck of a lot more, by comparison, in all fairness.

Also, I think outside of the whole "missing 1C+1D+1G thing"... you're right in that, if there's a team that could afford to do it... it's probably the Pens. The biggest part of that little fact though is the 1C is the heart and soul, and leader... and that hurts them in a big way.

 

[eco's bones]

As far as Crosby--if he comes back to play he's not getting treated with kid gloves and it's not going to matter if it's the Caps, the Rangers, the Senators or any of the western teams. He goes into combat areas he'd better be ready to take a serious hit. I've had enough experience with my own team going deep into the playoffs that if someone's hurting he's getting targeted. So if there's any concern at all with Crosby getting concussed again--he'd be best to take his time coming back because multiple concussions in a short period of time can end careers.

Do I think the Rangers can beat the Pens? yeah. Do I think the Preds could beat the Pens? yeah. Do I think the Ducks could beat the Pens? yeah. The other teams not really and any team that faces the Pens is an underdog but it's very possible.....and the Pens are the most banged up team there is. Anaheim plays a heavy game--to me they'd have the best chance.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Pitt will face a real team in the finals so far they have played teams who have rolled over.

we heard that last year about the Sharks too. Not saying the west teams aren't good, or that they can't win, but they aren't better than the Caps.

Do I think the Rangers can beat the Pens? yeah. Do I think the Preds could beat the Pens? yeah. Do I think the Ducks could beat the Pens? yeah. The other teams not really and any team that faces the Pens is an underdog but it's very possible.....and the Pens are the most banged up team there is. Anaheim plays a heavy game--to me they'd have the best chance.

A heavy game isn't what worries me as a Pens fan. It's a team that plays good defensively and then counterattacks well. That's how Tampa took the Pens to 7 last year. Nashville is my biggest worry out west if we get that far. Especially since they have two D pairings capable of matching well with both Sid and Geno. That's not to say the Ducks wouldn't be a very hard opponent who could win, but their style isn't what worries me. The Jackets and Caps also play a heavy game. That's the last style of play that I'm worried about.

 

[eco's bones]

we heard that last year about the Sharks too. Not saying the west teams aren't good, or that they can't win, but they aren't better than the Caps.

A heavy game isn't what worries me as a Pens fan. It's a team that plays good defensively and then counterattacks well. That's how Tampa took the Pens to 7 last year. Nashville is my biggest worry out west if we get that far. Especially since they have two D pairings capable of matching well with both Sid and Geno. That's not to say the Ducks wouldn't be a very hard opponent who could win, but their style isn't what worries me. The Jackets and Caps also play a heavy game. That's the last style of play that I'm worried about.

The Caps are the poster child for choking. Have they ever got past the second round?

Well your team is already banged up--playing the Ducks is not going to be a picnic. Whoever is doing your player development though has done an A+ job--every time one of your guys gets knocked out somebody comes up from Wilkes Barres ready to go. Adding guys like Guentzel and Sheary was fantastic for you and I'm thinking Aston-Reese might be another. I'm getting the idea though that Crosby and Letang are already on the back half of their careers. Your days of elite players are running out. 5-6 years from now (maybe even sooner than that) success will depend on balanced depth throughout your lineup not on elite marquee players.

 

[Open Mind]

Fair enough. I'll split the difference with ya... I think you could have just said... While they are missing 1C, 1D, 1G... they've got a 1C and 1G to fill two of those spots. I think bringing the draft stuff into it convoluted things a bit. I wouldn't have gone into the Staal = Bonino + Dumoulin + Pouliot bit, if I was taking up your end of the debate.

I didn't question you on the NMC stuff, because I thought maybe you were referencing Kessel, and possibly Iginla. But in all seriousness and in my tiredness, I can't think of a UFA that's clamoured to come this way. If anything, I kind of feel like they don't when they should. Hossa and Hamhuis I think left me with that impression. Who am I forgetting in UFA?

I also think it's pretty rough using the 80s Oilers against the Modern Penguins when measuring Cup-expectations. The Oil nabbed 4 in 5, on the heels of the Isles with 4. It definitely was a different time. As you know, Salary Cap + Parity + Yadda yadda. The Wings cups were spread out a bit, 4 in 11... but still very impressive. That said, we're only on year 7 since the first Modern Pens cup. I think we have to give them a chance and allot them the same amount of time as Wings, before we can say the Wings won a heck of a lot more, by comparison, in all fairness.

Also, I think outside of the whole "missing 1C+1D+1G thing"... you're right in that, if there's a team that could afford to do it... it's probably the Pens. The biggest part of that little fact though is the 1C is the heart and soul, and leader... and that hurts them in a big way.

Fair enough, but please know I'm in the middle of trying to finish writing a book, on zero sleep, posting in here on breaks from that, so at times I'm not sure what language I'm speaking.

I think in addition to Kessel, guys like Hornqvist and Hagelin had limited NTC's also. But Kessel alone was a huge grab and considering he only listed 8 destination teams, it's noteworthy the Pens were one of the 8. He was not a minor addition. Just looking at the Rangers-Pens head-to-head playoffs the three prior seasons I know last season was a substantial difference with him there.

I won't reply to most else of what you said, cuz they are valid points. But I will touch on your last paragraph from my own view point as a player. Losing Crosby on the ice is a hit to the team for sure. But having played with him when he's healthy should also leave all on the roster in better position if he is out injured. Playing and practicing with someone like him can help you play and view the game differently. Also, it's no secret he has an insane work ethic and drive, and that should rub off on teammates. As a player, when you watch a guy who's probably the best player in the world incessantly driving himself for even further improvement, that has to rub off on and impact teammates to varying degrees. I think his impact is largely still felt even when he's not on the ice.

 

[Lawd Stanley]

It would absolutely be very surprising

Ok it wouldn't be common but I wouldn't be shocked let's put it that way. Anything can happen.

 

[Tweed]

Fair enough, but please know I'm in the middle of trying to finish writing a book, on zero sleep, posting in here on breaks from that, so at times I'm not sure what language I'm speaking.

I think in addition to Kessel, guys like Hornqvist and Hagelin had limited NTC's also. But Kessel alone was a huge grab and considering he only listed 8 destination teams, it's noteworthy the Pens were one of the 8. He was not a minor addition. Just looking at the Rangers-Pens head-to-head playoffs the three prior seasons I know last season was a substantial difference with him there.

I won't reply to most else of what you said, cuz they are valid points. But I will touch on your last paragraph from my own view point as a player. Losing Crosby on the ice is a hit to the team for sure. But having played with him when he's healthy should also leave all on the roster in better position if he is out injured. Playing and practicing with someone like him can help you play and view the game differently. Also, it's no secret he has an insane work ethic and drive, and that should rub off on teammates. As a player, when you watch a guy who's probably the best player in the world incessantly driving himself for even further improvement, that has to rub off on and impact teammates to varying degrees. I think his impact is largely still felt even when he's not on the ice.

Yeah, I'm with ya. One thing though... I already gave ya the NMC bit, so you were golden there. But what about UFAs? I can't for the life of me think of one that came to Pitty, just to play with Sid and Geno.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The Caps are the poster child for choking. Have they ever got past the second round?

Well your team is already banged up--playing the Ducks is not going to be a picnic. Whoever is doing your player development though has done an A+ job--every time one of your guys gets knocked out somebody comes up from Wilkes Barres ready to go. Adding guys like Guentzel and Sheary was fantastic for you and I'm thinking Aston-Reese might be another. I'm getting the idea though that Crosby and Letang are already on the back half of their careers. Your days of elite players are running out. 5-6 years from now (maybe even sooner than that) success will depend on balanced depth throughout your lineup not on elite marquee players.

sure, 5 or 6 years from now. Maybe even 3 or 4. But we are talking about a potential matchup a few weeks from now. And Sid will still be the best player in the world a few weeks from now.

And to be clear, I'm in no way saying anything will be easy for the Pens. Not even finishing off the Caps. I'm just saying that playing heavy has not been the way to beat the Pens the last two years. Doesn't mean a good team playing heavy can't beat them, they absolutely could. Pens also might not even make it that far.

 

[Lawd Stanley]

Preds or Rangers could take a healthy Pittsburgh team to 5. Everybody else is looking at brooms.

Just curious what you'll say if the Caps win 3 straight. I feel like they could.