Yes it does sound like that, plus it seems to strongly indicate that the hiring was done by Melnyk, not Dorion. It seems that Melnyk has knowingly created a situation that might be perceived as threatening by Dorion. I suspect Melnyk wanted to make the playoffs last season and that failure weighs heavily on Dorion as his grand plan did not work out.
Confirmed with Link: Sens hire Pierre McGuire
- Thread starter h2
- Start date
Yes it does sound like that, plus it seems to strongly indicate that the hiring was done by Melnyk, not Dorion. It seems that Melnyk has knowingly created a situation that might be perceived as threatening by Dorion. I suspect Melnyk wanted to make the playoffs last season and that failure weighs heavily on Dorion as his grand plan did not work out.
Joeyjoejoe
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2015
- 6,174
- 8,742
The worst thing about analytics are the people that die by it and act so condescending and arrogant if you don’t fully support their model and way of thinking. Their graphs and charts must be treated as the gospel and the only truth to hockey and player evaluation.
They are just as bad as the old hockey men they seem to hate.
They are just as bad as the old hockey men they seem to hate.
Jack Todd in the Montreal Gazette writes
Just when you thought they were on the verge of contention, the Ottawa Senators hired Pierre McGuire. Like the Hartford Whalers before them, they will live to regret it. …
Jack Todd: No respite for Montreal Canadiens as frenzied offseason begins | Montreal Gazette
Just when you thought they were on the verge of contention, the Ottawa Senators hired Pierre McGuire. Like the Hartford Whalers before them, they will live to regret it. …
Jack Todd: No respite for Montreal Canadiens as frenzied offseason begins | Montreal Gazette
YouGotAStuGoing
Registered User
Jack Todd is truly the voice of reason and unbiased perspective.
Qward
Because! That's why!
Dorion is terrible dealing with the media. All I have to do is point to the "We are a team." moment.
McGuire is the perfect guy to handle the media and get the clubs message across. Fans may not like him, but the players have respect for him.
McGuire is the perfect guy to handle the media and get the clubs message across. Fans may not like him, but the players have respect for him.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
- 54,163
- 31,367
Jack Todd was what, 8 years old when McGuire was with the Whalers? I'm sure he remembers all the intricacies that went into their failure with him at the helm...
I get being skeptical about McGuire, but people need to find a new well to drink from, the Whalers was 27 years ago
Well I mean what intricacies? Some prettt large parts of that team came out and said he was a complete disaster.
I agree it was a long time ago
Tuna99
Registered User
- Sep 26, 2009
- 15,002
- 7,024
This is good news. Jack Todd has never been right in his life about anything.
BondraTime
Registered User
Tuna99
Registered User
- Sep 26, 2009
- 15,002
- 7,024
the pebble in his shoe is. He’s the crankiest person in Montreal. The joy de vivre thing hasn’t come to his door yet
TheDebater
Peace be upon you
Completely different circumstances with this current hiring and a 32 year old hot head being hired to coach an NHL team 27 years ago.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
- 54,163
- 31,367
He was an obnoxiously overconfident kid (well as far as coaches go) at the time, but the roster wasn't exactly great either. Not sure how any of that pertains to his ability to do the role he's been brought into for though.
None of what went wrong in Hartford is likely to be an issue here given his role. He's not going to be smashing sticks in the locker room, or taunting the opposition bench, even if he hasn't developed as a person in 30 years. He's a front office guy. He's there to work with Dorion, that's really it.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
- 54,163
- 31,367
No clue, was just trying to point out it was a long frigging time ago,
Okay. I agree. But. Wasn’t a quote “McGuire was one of the most disrespected guys” one guy had “ever seen.” And that was internally. I say that has a ton of relevance. But. He might not be like that a long time ago.
JimmySpaetzle
Registered User
- May 16, 2014
- 1,272
- 1,286
So I listened to Pierre’s interview on the Wally and Methot show, and man I am a bit concerned about how long ago a lot of the stuff he was talking about was
Beech
What A Wonderful Day
- Nov 25, 2020
- 2,952
- 1,012
A person who commits murder is sentenced to life in prison, but can be eligible for parole after 25 years. It has been 27 years since McGuire and Hartford..we seem to be easier on murderers.
Give him a chance guys. Jeeze the stance we can sometimes take.
Jack Todd was a draft dodger..see him on Ken Burn's "The Vietnam war" documentary. If Ford (US President) did not issue an amnesty, he would be a US fugitive now, with a life sentence waiting for him. If Carter did not issue an amnesty allowing draft dodgers to return to the US, he would never have been allowed to enter the USA and do his job. He covered major league baseball for years.
Clearly Jack needs some lessons on forgive. There must not be any mirrors in his home.
Give him a chance guys. Jeeze the stance we can sometimes take.
Jack Todd was a draft dodger..see him on Ken Burn's "The Vietnam war" documentary. If Ford (US President) did not issue an amnesty, he would be a US fugitive now, with a life sentence waiting for him. If Carter did not issue an amnesty allowing draft dodgers to return to the US, he would never have been allowed to enter the USA and do his job. He covered major league baseball for years.
Clearly Jack needs some lessons on forgive. There must not be any mirrors in his home.
In here, where fans are, we really need to accept that analytics are extremely boring, a full blown buzzkill in fact, for many people.
I personally don’t watch hockey to crunch numbers, and my eyes typically glaze over when someone wants to wow me with ‘data’ during my personal time.
The eye test, for fans, equates to watching the games and forming opinions based on what one sees. This is totally adequate for the purposes of fans talking to each other on a message board.
As for team analytics, they are a fun tool, that generally is meaningless if it’s not applied properly. The way we seem to use data seems appropriate; DJ explains how they get game data right after the game and can use that along with what they saw to evaluate how players are playing as lines, and within the systems.
Drafting a player based solely on analytics is silly, much like team’s don’t draft based solely on stats either.
I think when we see that a team ‘doesn’t rely on analytics’ it means that the don’t heavily rely on them, which doesn’t mean they don’t use them at all. We also don’t need a massive analytics team when there are professional businesses that will compile the data for you. All a team really needs is someone to manage the relationship with said company, and at least initially, help the team interpret what all of those acronyms mean (lol). These days the coaching staff, at least ours, seem competent enough to interpret the numbers they want to use.
In no way does analytics replace, or even come close to being equal to the eye test, especially when those eyes are pro coaches, players, scouts, and managers.
Last edited:
IlTerrifico
Registered User
- Oct 24, 2016
- 615
- 432
If nothing else, Pierre seems to be tactical and informed enough to suggest and put in motion the important depth moves that a peak roster needs to get over the top, like the Goodrows, Colemans and Maroons (no, not from Bugs Bunny) that were central for Tampa in recent wins.
There is no way Dorion can conceive of such moves, and if he did he would overpay and lose some other critical components. These huge value players are especially important for us, as Euge will always be looking to keep acquisitions on the magical pennies side.
There is no way Dorion can conceive of such moves, and if he did he would overpay and lose some other critical components. These huge value players are especially important for us, as Euge will always be looking to keep acquisitions on the magical pennies side.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
The fact that Hartford doesn't exist anymore pretty much tells you everything you need to know about the relevance of that experience.
Pierre may well suck, but I doubt it's because of what he did in Hartford.
Pierre may well suck, but I doubt it's because of what he did in Hartford.
Reminds me of when the GM hires one of the associate coaches while letting the coach hire the rest. There is always the sense that that coach answers to the GM, and that he is there to replace the head coach should he falter.
PD can’t be enthused on the one hand, but on the other hand he must be over the moon to have some legit help on the hockey side of things. The man has been running the show (hockey ops of an NHL team) basically on his own since BM left us. I think PD will be a guy that we really appreciate after he’s gone.
EM is totally the type of guy to get bored of PD and his perceived lack of ‘getting things done’ with both hands tied behind his back, and I could totally see him owed away by PM’s smooth words and equally enthusiastic view on the Sen’s future.
Personally I think PM has a looooong way to go to be the boss as an executive and should really be mentoring under PD for a long time. Working for EM can’t be like any other GM position in the league. This mean EM will likely do the opposite lol.
Beech
What A Wonderful Day
- Nov 25, 2020
- 2,952
- 1,012
My personal feeling is; P. McGuire wants a GM position and wants it badly, but not here. Contrary to what he said about wanting to move to Ottawa, I have heard him a ton on Montreal radio and even on Ottawa radio.
1) his wife is from Quebec and he would love to be a GM there. He has said it a ton.
2) if not Montreal, he has grown awfully accustomed to life in the US north East. I am guessing that he would love to be a GM of a team in the Metro division and live in NYC or someplace central and do what other GMs do, commute. Again, listen to his daily hits on TSN690 in MTL or 1200 here in the mornings and you get tidbits.
When he failed at jobs about 10 years ago (when Montreal and Tampa came up), the buzz that I heard (radio guys mostly). He needs to establish himself in a role such as AGM or director, etc. . Well this is what he is doing.
2-3 years here and you have MTL, Bos, NYI, NYR, NJD, Phili, Pitts, Wash that can open up. In fact, I will safely state that all 8 will open in 2-3 years. With Price, Weaber, Petry..that Montreal job which 2 weeks ago looked like it will be Bergevan's for life, may be in play in 2-3 years.
If FYOUS becomes real, it will help both PD and PM. PD will stay and have his own FYOUS. PM will be a GM in one of the 8 teams, I am guessing at. This could be win/win for both. Mind you, no FYOUS and both may sink. It is in PM's best interest to prop up PD as best as he can. Again; win/win if FYOUS.
AchtzehnBaby
Global Matador
Beech
What A Wonderful Day
- Nov 25, 2020
- 2,952
- 1,012
f'ng Simpson, he loves to throw stuff at the wall.
Shawn..if you are hoping to get back in the game..you better stay away from this stuff. GMPD, PDPM and SOEM have just crossed you off their list. I am guessing HHGB (Head Honcho Gary Betmann) has done so as well.
The Devilish Buffoon
🇵🇸 viva 🇵🇸 free 🇵🇸
- Dec 24, 2018
- 12,276
- 11,074
Ad
Upcoming events
-
-
-
-
-
BET ON ONLY ONE HORSE WATCH LIVE - FINGER LAKES RACE 1 - Farmington, NYWagers: 2Staked: $273.00Event closes- Updated: