Sportsnet: Seguin "disappointed" to not have an extension yet

[Duodenum]

Hey, I understand your frustration as a fan, really. And, you may be right. As an outsider, the Dallas front office has puzzled me over and over. That said, Seguin is looking for elite money. We're not talking 7.5 or 8 mil here - we're talking "Top 3-5 player on the planet" money in the 10-12 mil range. When you're committing those types of dollars and term to a player, you need to feel 100% confident this is a player who could help you win something big.

For example, I think Dallas would be willing to give Jamie Benn a blank check and say, "write in the amount." But Seguin, the person, isn't Jamie Benn. And Benn brings an enormous amount of intangibles to the table. Seguin is a very gifted offensive player, but I'm not sure he has the total package where you will want to pay him more than Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kopitar, Kane, etc. That's all I'm saying.

$10-12 million per season isn't top 3-5 player in the league territory anymore. The goalposts shift every year as the salary cap goes up. Tavares was offered $13 million per season by the SJ Sharks and he isn't close to a top 5 player in the league anymore. $10-12 million is going to get you a top 20 player now as a UFA signing and will continue to rise as the cap rises.

 

[WhatWhat]

Well it is a good thing your opinion means squat because 95% of the rational thinking humanoids think he is, sooooooooooo.

The only reason i suspect you feel this way about him is because he has torched the Bruins in games he has played against them since he left and your GM and team is eating crow now.

Also Seguin came here as a party boy who was supposed to be an offensive tool with maybe less than stellar defence. People just dont watch Dallas play so they dont know but Seguin is 100% a 200 foot player now and is every bit capable of being a C on the PK. Only reason he wasnt playing more on the PK last year is because Faksa eats up every other shift on the PK because he is pretty much a 1 man PK unit out there.

 

[Boxscore]

$10-12 million per season isn't top 3-5 player in the league territory anymore. The goalposts shift every year as the salary cap goes up. Tavares was offered $13 million per season by the SJ Sharks and he isn't close to a top 5 player in the league anymore. $10-12 million is going to get you a top 20 player now as a UFA signing and will continue to rise as the cap rises.

San Jose offered Tavares 13 mil because they are desperate and insane. They know their old core of Thornton, Pavelski and Burns are on the decline and they need some younger star power to remain competitive, hence the ludicrous contract to Evander Kane. The Sharks recent desperation reminds me of when the Flyers were so desperate for a goalie, they gave the sun, the moon and the stars to Bryzgalov. How'd that turn out?

If the Stars want to behave like Dallas, that's on them. Nothing stopping them - have at it. Edmonton recently signed McDavid to a 12.5 mil per year contract. If you think the Stars should pay Seguin close to what McDavid is making, fine. I think it's insane, but whatever.

 

[WhatWhat]

Hey, I understand your frustration as a fan, really. And, you may be right. As an outsider, the Dallas front office has puzzled me over and over. That said, Seguin is looking for elite money. We're not talking 7.5 or 8 mil here - we're talking "Top 3-5 player on the planet" money in the 10-12 mil range. When you're committing those types of dollars and term to a player, you need to feel 100% confident this is a player who could help you win something big.

For example, I think Dallas would be willing to give Jamie Benn a blank check and say, "write in the amount." But Seguin, the person, isn't Jamie Benn. And Benn brings an enormous amount of intangibles to the table. Seguin is a very gifted offensive player, but I'm not sure he has the total package where you will want to pay him more than Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kopitar, Kane, etc. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not saying the Stars feel Seguin in "the problem", I'm just speculating that maybe they don't feel he's the ultimate solution either. Again, if we're talking very good money, it's one thing. But Seguin is apparently looking at elite (almost Connor McDavid) money and that case is being made on a spreadsheet, which could be dangerous.

If I'm committing that type of money to a player, I want to make sure of four things:

1. Does his production justify this contract. On paper, yes, Seguin's numbers have justified Tavares type money.

2. Is he a genuine leader of men, and a great one. I'm not sure either way. But Seguin has never been a captain or has been labelled a "great leader." That said, I've never heard anything bad about him, other than maybe he was a little immature in Boston, but he was a baby, which is understandable.

3. Does he have the "it factor" and is he loaded with intangibles. Points are nice and all, but is this player the type who can contribute in many other ways? Is he a 200 foot demigod like Kopitar, Bergeron or Toews? Can he change a game physically like Ovechkin and Benn? Is he a money player who seems to play better when it matters most? Kane, Malkin, Crosby, etc? I don't see any of this with Seguin. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I haven't seen it yet.

4. Will he get better and give me a great return on my investment? Or will he plateau or decline while I'm paying him elite money? This is another knock on Seguin. I think he is an awesome point-per-game type player. But I don't have him in the McDavid, Matthews, Eichel camp where I feel "the best is yet to come." If I'm Dallas, I'm looking at what Seguin will give me 3, 4, 5 years down the line while I'm not even halfway through a contract paying him 11 or 12 million per season.

This is the biggest misconception ever and again jsut a prime example of how people dont want us play... There are stars fans out there that wont agree with this but the majority of stars fan I talk to on the regular rate Seguin over Benn. Im firmly in that boat. I dont think Seguin is better by a lot but I think Seguin is straight up a better hockey player than Benn is. Seguin deserves slightly more than the same contract Benn got. With cap inflation that comes to 10.335 this year. Tavares set the market a little higher by signing for 11 but there is no way he goes for much cheeper. 10 AAV for Dallas would be an steal

 

[WhatWhat]

San Jose offered Tavares 13 mil because they are desperate and insane. They know their old core of Thornton, Pavelski and Burns are on the decline and they need some younger star power to remain competitive, hence the ludicrous contract to Evander Kane. The Sharks recent desperation reminds me of when the Flyers were so desperate for a goalie, they gave the sun, the moon and the stars to Bryzgalov. How'd that turn out?

If the Stars want to behave like Dallas, that's on them. Nothing stopping them - have at it. Edmonton recently signed McDavid to a 12.5 mil per year contract. If you think the Stars should pay Seguin close to what McDavid is making, fine. I think it's insane, but whatever.

RFA VS UFA How do people not realize this... there is a massive f***ing difference. If McDavid was allowed to talk to all 31 teams and they could have offered him without compensation I would be willing to bet a decent sum of money some team would have offered north of 14 and we might have seen the first max contract.

 

[DEVILS130]

No need to debate Taylor vs Tyler anymore if they’re on the same team

 

[VicVinegar]

PPG center who is solid (not great, but can hold his own just fine) defensively.

I'm guessing his signs for $10.5 x 8. That's the rate these days, deal with it.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Well it is a good thing your opinion means squat because 95% of the rational thinking humanoids think he is, sooooooooooo.

The only reason i suspect you feel this way about him is because he has torched the Bruins in games he has played against them since he left and your GM and team is eating crow now.

I have zero regrets on the Bruins trading him. He cost the Bruins a Cup.

The return has been and always will be the issue.

He is not a superstar, there is no doubt on that. Elite, raw offensive talent he does have. Benn is the franchise player of the two.

I'd expect him to get $10 million because every good player is at this point, and Dallas has little choice.

Your guess is very sadly mistaken however, on the other poster's behalf. Petty as well.

 

[Boxscore]

RFA VS UFA How do people not realize this... there is a massive ****ing difference. If McDavid was allowed to talk to all 31 teams and they could have offered him without compensation I would be willing to bet a decent sum of money some team would have offered north of 14 and we might have seen the first max contract.

That's fine, but explain to me how a team can be a legit contender if they are paying one player 14 million or a Tyler Seguin 12 million? Only two teams in recent history have won Cups when having their cap dominated by two elite-paid, megastars: Pittsburgh and Chicago. That's it. Even the Caps finally won a Cup and thanks in part to players like Backstrom who were willing to take less to help keep the team competitive.

That's why Yzerman is building Tampa with the right players and people - those who are all willing to take less to ice a competitive team for the long haul.

If a player wants to be a mercenary or GMs want to just throw ludicrous money around, that's on them, but it rarely, if ever, results in team success.

Even take the Leafs for example. How are they going to keep Matthews, Marner, Nylander and address the defense after paying Tavares what they did? They are going to need to make some very tough decisions.

The way I see it, unless a player is an absolute elite player like Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kane, MacDavid, teams need to be very careful with whom they pay those elite dollars to.

Look, I'm by no means suggesting that Seguin isn't a superstar in the NHL, he is. But there comes a time where teams need to take a breath and re-access before they commit to something with long-term ramifications. Just because everyone else is throwing money around like crazy, doesn't mean you need to follow them into the inferno.

If Seguin truly wants to be part of the Stars long-term, it's in his best interest to give them a hometown discount - a legit one - and not go the Tavares route. If the poster above is correct in that Benn took less to leave some money for Seguin, then he owes it to Benn and the rest of his team to do the same for the betterment of the group. If Seguin wants top dollar, he might need to look elsewhere, who knows. But, there's a reason he hasn't been locked up yet.

 

[seabass45]

Looking at Capfriendly, I see a few teams who would probably offer Seguin 12 mil if they get the chance.

 

[Duodenum]

San Jose offered Tavares 13 mil because they are desperate and insane. They know their old core of Thornton, Pavelski and Burns are on the decline and they need some younger star power to remain competitive, hence the ludicrous contract to Evander Kane. The Sharks recent desperation reminds me of when the Flyers were so desperate for a goalie, they gave the sun, the moon and the stars to Bryzgalov. How'd that turn out?

If the Stars want to behave like Dallas, that's on them. Nothing stopping them - have at it. Edmonton recently signed McDavid to a 12.5 mil per year contract. If you think the Stars should pay Seguin close to what McDavid is making, fine. I think it's insane, but whatever.

With the salary cap increase, that 12.5 is already 13.25.
Not to mention it's comparing apples to oranges with McDavid being an RFA.
Doesn't matter what I think players should make, salaries will follow the same rules they've always followed.
UFA > RFA
Higher cap -> Higher salary
There will be many players making more than McDavid after a few years, even though he'll be getting 10+ more points per season than them. Much like how Crosby's contract was surpassed even though he was the best player in the league.

The numbers might tickle the innards but they are what they are.

 

[WhatWhat]

That's fine, but explain to me how a team can be a legit contender if they are paying one player 14 million or a Tyler Seguin 12 million? Only two teams in recent history have won Cups when having their cap dominated by two elite-paid, megastars: Pittsburgh and Chicago. That's it. Even the Caps finally won a Cup and thanks in part to players like Backstrom who were willing to take less to help keep the team competitive.

That's why Yzerman is building Tampa with the right players and people - those who are all willing to take less to ice a competitive team for the long haul.

If a player wants to be a mercenary or GMs want to just throw ludicrous money around, that's on them, but it rarely, if ever, results in team success.

Even take the Leafs for example. How are they going to keep Matthews, Marner, Nylander and address the defense after paying Tavares what they did? They are going to need to make some very tough decisions.

The way I see it, unless a player is an absolute elite player like Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kane, MacDavid, teams need to be very careful with whom they pay those elite dollars to.

Look, I'm by no means suggesting that Seguin isn't a superstar in the NHL, he is. But there comes a time where teams need to take a breath and re-access before they commit to something with long-term ramifications. Just because everyone else is throwing money around like crazy, doesn't mean you need to follow them into the inferno.

If Seguin truly wants to be part of the Stars long-term, it's in his best interest to give them a hometown discount - a legit one - and not go the Tavares route. If the poster above is correct in that Benn took less to leave some money for Seguin, then he owes it to Benn and the rest of his team to do the same for the betterment of the group. If Seguin wants top dollar, he might need to look elsewhere, who knows. But, there's a reason he hasn't been locked up yet.

First I never said Seguin should get 12 and I dont think he will. He should get the same contract as Tavares.

Second you win with those players by having key contributions from ELC contracts and for that reason smart teams will be more and more reluctant to trade first round picks in the future because those are your best shot at getting top 6 minutes for 1 million dollars. If you are fortunate to have a Crosby or McDavid then they are able to elevate much lesser talent but realistically to win the cup in the salaray cap day and age where you can no longer back fill contracts with cheap meaningless years you have to do it when your star talent is drastically underpaid as RFA's or have very good drafting and developing and actually trust the kids and stop filling gaps with 3-4 million dollar vets for grit.

Tampa is in a unique situation where they have shown to be on the cusp of winning a cup and have the build to possibly win more than 1. Players will be much more likely to take a discount for a team that is already that close to winning. Problem is TB is just about the only team in the league that I think has the rare combination of elite talent + deep prospect pool to fill in the gaps for the next little while.

As to it being in Seguins best interest to give the stars a big discount I completely disagree. Maybe a million at max, but as much as Seguin wants to win its in his best interest to secure the best possible life for him and his family moving forward. Players dont owe the team anything because the team take full advantage of them when they are worth the most. The players have to get max value when its their turn. If the league was set up fair for the players, they would all sign top contracts at 23 ish years old then sign cheaper ones at 28-30, however the cap and CBA makes it so the teams f*** over the players in terms of their worth early on and players return the favor later. There are very very few players who will take massive discounts just to help the team because in the end of the day the player want to secure the best future possible.

Also your idea of elite money is really skewed. You reference names like Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kane, McDavid. The youngest of those contracts(not counting McDavid becasue UFA vs RFA is nght and day difference) was signed 4 years ago. The cap has gone up since then. Kane signed at 15.22% of the cap, Ovechkin signed at 16.82% of the cap, Malkin at 14.77%, Crosby at 14.5%. Seguin signing for 10-11 puts him in the 12.6%-13.8% comfortably below all the superstars your are listing. If any ones of those name signed where about to turn 27 and signed this offseason they would all be near 12+ for their team and would get even higher percentages if they hit open market. You can't just look at the dollar amount of old contracts and use that as a comparison, you have to take into account what those would be now, or look at the cap %. 11 AAV is below the group of super star contracts and a home town discount for Seguin would be around 10.5 seeing as I would be shocked if he wasnt offered 12 AAV int he open market if he played it like Tavares did

 

[WhatWhat]

With the salary cap increase, that 12.5 is already 13.25.
Not to mention it's comparing apples to oranges with McDavid being an RFA.
Doesn't matter what I think players should make, salaries will follow the same rules they've always followed.
UFA > RFA
Higher cap -> Higher salary
There will be many players making more than McDavid after a few years, even though he'll be getting 10+ more points per season than them. Much like how Crosby's contract was surpassed even though he was the best player in the league.

The numbers might tickle the innards but they are what they are.

Contract inflation always seems to be overlooked in these threads. People seem to completely forget about it and have a hard time accepting it when brought up. The mount of times your hear "Lol i can believe player X is making more than Y" Well player Y signed 5 years ago so yea it makes all the sense in the world.

I wish they would just report contracts as % of cap instead so people would more easily compare contracts signed in different years

 

[HabsTown]

God I wish he'd pick MTL (not even 1%, but who knows). It would changed our team so much.

Bonus : Seeing him lighting up the Bruins would be the icing on the cake.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Well it is a good thing your opinion means squat because 95% of the rational thinking humanoids think he is, sooooooooooo.

The only reason i suspect you feel this way about him is because he has torched the Bruins in games he has played against them since he left and your GM and team is eating crow now.

My GM? That GM no longer works for the Bruins. I'm definitely over that trade, though. Team is progressing nicely at this point without Seguin.

That trade was, is, and always will be one of the most braindead trades of all time.

 

[cwede]

you'd think Seguin would've learned to zip his lip after the "..eers and steers" kerfuffle
he is gonna get his money, very good money,
and if they don't sign him soon, he gets to choose where he goes
this self-focus and lack of discipline reflects poorly on a guy who will be expected to be leader

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

Not for anything, but, how is Dallas a cup contender while paying Seguin 11 mil? They haven't sniffed a cup since Seguin's been on the team.

I like Seguin as a player, and think Dallas is clearly better with him in the lineup, but maybe Dallas is looking at the big picture and asking themselves, "how far has Seguin gotten us?" Maybe they are wondering if they want to commit mega, franchise dollars to a player who hasn't been able to get them to the next level?

I'm not a Dallas fan nor hater. I'm just offering some unemotional, outside perspective. If I were Dallas, I'd at least be testing the market to see if another team is willing to overpay in a trade for Seguin. Worst case scenario, there's a limited market and you're back at square one - Dallas still owns his rights.

But, realistically, if the Stars end up paying Seguin 11 mil, how much money do they have to bring on additionally impact players and pay them handsomely? Heiskanen is their prize in the pipeline, but outside of him, there are some nice players, but no pending monsters who are poised to step in today and make a huge impact.

Dallas is in a tricky spot. On paper, they are a very attractive team with top-end names: Benn, Seguin, Radulov, Bishop, Klingberg. But they can't seem to put it together. In addition, the West is loaded with teams like Nashville, Winnipeg and Vegas that are going to be better for the foreseeable future. Even the Blues look good. And that's not taking into account the Oilers if McDavid gets the right help around him.

Dallas is a tweener team - not great but not sucky. They could be awesome, or they could struggle to make the playoffs. In other words, very unpredictable. As a manager, I'm scared by this. This is a defining moment for the team. If they sign Seguin to a massive (Tavares-type) extension and the team continues to be in limbo, they are stuck with an albatross for many years.

As a Stars fan I see where you are coming from. It would suck to lose Seguin and I’m all for offering him a good contract to keep him and try to contend. But it feels like we should have been contending for the past five years and we’ve been stagnant. Drafting has been bad, there were a few good trades, but in the end only one series win.

If we give Seguin 11M or higher how are we going to fill out the rest of the roster? Every year there is going to be another player needing a raise and it’ll get harder and harder to compete. If Seguin’s ask is to high I’m on board with shipping him out to the highest bidder and rebuilding. I’m not willing to pay him over 11M out of desperation.

 

[Boxscore]

Looking at Capfriendly, I see a few teams who would probably offer Seguin 12 mil if they get the chance.

I'm sure. And that begs the question - why are these teams in this situation to begin with? UFA offers great players a buffet of choices... it just depends what are they motivated by most? Money, location, chance to win annually? If it's the money, then it's easy - wait until you're a UFA and accept the most, regardless of who's offering it.

Some teams don't have realistic expectations of winning a cup. Their owner/ownership group is looking at the teams purely as an investment. Some managers are judged on attendance and profit. Those teams are often willing to overpay for a marquee name if they need a star to market. Nothing wrong with that, if that's what the player and team both want.

The only reason why this is a topic is because Seguin said he is "disappointed that a deal isn't done." When a player says that, all kinds of speculation and discussion will follow. That's what the media does, that's what fans do.

 

[Starat327]

First I never said Seguin should get 12 and I dont think he will. He should get the same contract as Tavares.

Second you win with those players by having key contributions from ELC contracts and for that reason smart teams will be more and more reluctant to trade first round picks in the future because those are your best shot at getting top 6 minutes for 1 million dollars. If you are fortunate to have a Crosby or McDavid then they are able to elevate much lesser talent but realistically to win the cup in the salaray cap day and age where you can no longer back fill contracts with cheap meaningless years you have to do it when your star talent is drastically underpaid as RFA's or have very good drafting and developing and actually trust the kids and stop filling gaps with 3-4 million dollar vets for grit.

Tampa is in a unique situation where they have shown to be on the cusp of winning a cup and have the build to possibly win more than 1. Players will be much more likely to take a discount for a team that is already that close to winning. Problem is TB is just about the only team in the league that I think has the rare combination of elite talent + deep prospect pool to fill in the gaps for the next little while.

As to it being in Seguins best interest to give the stars a big discount I completely disagree. Maybe a million at max, but as much as Seguin wants to win its in his best interest to secure the best possible life for him and his family moving forward. Players dont owe the team anything because the team take full advantage of them when they are worth the most. The players have to get max value when its their turn. If the league was set up fair for the players, they would all sign top contracts at 23 ish years old then sign cheaper ones at 28-30, however the cap and CBA makes it so the teams **** over the players in terms of their worth early on and players return the favor later. There are very very few players who will take massive discounts just to help the team because in the end of the day the player want to secure the best future possible.

Also your idea of elite money is really skewed. You reference names like Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kane, McDavid. The youngest of those contracts(not counting McDavid becasue UFA vs RFA is nght and day difference) was signed 4 years ago. The cap has gone up since then. Kane signed at 15.22% of the cap, Ovechkin signed at 16.82% of the cap, Malkin at 14.77%, Crosby at 14.5%. Seguin signing for 10-11 puts him in the 12.6%-13.8% comfortably below all the superstars your are listing. If any ones of those name signed where about to turn 27 and signed this offseason they would all be near 12+ for their team and would get even higher percentages if they hit open market. You can't just look at the dollar amount of old contracts and use that as a comparison, you have to take into account what those would be now, or look at the cap %. 11 AAV is below the group of super star contracts and a home town discount for Seguin would be around 10.5 seeing as I would be shocked if he wasnt offered 12 AAV int he open market if he played it like Tavares did

I hope the irony of this "You can't win with a high paid superstar" that's coming from someone who appears to be a fan of a team who is gearing up to pay their superstar 12 million, isn't lost on you.

 

[Boxscore]

First I never said Seguin should get 12 and I dont think he will. He should get the same contract as Tavares.

Second you win with those players by having key contributions from ELC contracts and for that reason smart teams will be more and more reluctant to trade first round picks in the future because those are your best shot at getting top 6 minutes for 1 million dollars. If you are fortunate to have a Crosby or McDavid then they are able to elevate much lesser talent but realistically to win the cup in the salaray cap day and age where you can no longer back fill contracts with cheap meaningless years you have to do it when your star talent is drastically underpaid as RFA's or have very good drafting and developing and actually trust the kids and stop filling gaps with 3-4 million dollar vets for grit.

Tampa is in a unique situation where they have shown to be on the cusp of winning a cup and have the build to possibly win more than 1. Players will be much more likely to take a discount for a team that is already that close to winning. Problem is TB is just about the only team in the league that I think has the rare combination of elite talent + deep prospect pool to fill in the gaps for the next little while.

As to it being in Seguins best interest to give the stars a big discount I completely disagree. Maybe a million at max, but as much as Seguin wants to win its in his best interest to secure the best possible life for him and his family moving forward. Players dont owe the team anything because the team take full advantage of them when they are worth the most. The players have to get max value when its their turn. If the league was set up fair for the players, they would all sign top contracts at 23 ish years old then sign cheaper ones at 28-30, however the cap and CBA makes it so the teams **** over the players in terms of their worth early on and players return the favor later. There are very very few players who will take massive discounts just to help the team because in the end of the day the player want to secure the best future possible.

Also your idea of elite money is really skewed. You reference names like Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kane, McDavid. The youngest of those contracts(not counting McDavid becasue UFA vs RFA is nght and day difference) was signed 4 years ago. The cap has gone up since then. Kane signed at 15.22% of the cap, Ovechkin signed at 16.82% of the cap, Malkin at 14.77%, Crosby at 14.5%. Seguin signing for 10-11 puts him in the 12.6%-13.8% comfortably below all the superstars your are listing. If any ones of those name signed where about to turn 27 and signed this offseason they would all be near 12+ for their team and would get even higher percentages if they hit open market. You can't just look at the dollar amount of old contracts and use that as a comparison, you have to take into account what those would be now, or look at the cap %. 11 AAV is below the group of super star contracts and a home town discount for Seguin would be around 10.5 seeing as I would be shocked if he wasnt offered 12 AAV int he open market if he played it like Tavares did

I totally get what you're saying, and you make some very valid points. My point was not as much about the "dollar amount" per se, it's about the % of your payroll going to one or two players. If you're putting your eggs in those baskets, and two players are taking up 25-30% of your entire cap, you need to make sure they are special players who can win, and not just superstars on paper. That's my point. PIT and CHI won because their money was going to Sid/Geno and Kane/Toews, not random superstarsX and Y. I'll even use my own team as an example, the Philadelphia Flyers...

When the Flyers signed Giroux and Voracek to those monster deals, I thought it was the ultimate catch-22. They were coming off good years and "deserved" good money, but I wondered then what I wonder today... are the Flyers going to win a Cup with Giroux/Voracek making the most on the team... top end, elite money that is/was close to Sid/Geno money. I don't think so, as much as it pains me to say it.

Honestly, what has Seguin shown since he's been in Dallas that leads you to believe he is the "type" of player who can carry Dallas on his back to the promised land? He's had some good points but what have the Stars done with him? Even last year they signed Radulov and Bishop... supposedly addressing their two main areas of weakness... and squat.

As great as Seguin is, he doesn't bring to the table what a Sid, Geno, Kane, etc. do. If the Stars commit to him 13+% of their entire cap, how competitive will they really be over the long haul? 14% of the Pens cap going to Sid is one thing, because he can carry the darn team. The same with Geno... and Kane. These guys are worth that. They are special players. Seguin is a star player, but if Sid is worth 14.5% of the Pens cap, what % is Seguin truly worth to Dallas in relation? 10%? 11% maybe? Even if Dallas gets him CHEAP at $10 mil a pop, that's still $12.6% of their cap, according to your math. How then does Dallas surround him and Benn with enough high-end talent to win anything substantial? Seguin and Benn are not Sid/Geno or Toews/Kane.... they need more help around them. More help = more money that needs to be spent.

The Leafs just went all in with Tavares. They will attempt to lock-up Matthews next and it will be close to the same money. Tavares/Matthews will be their Sid/Geno. Then they will try to lock in Marner, Nylander, etc. I just don't think it's wise for Dallas to go overboard for Seguin, but that's easy for me to say as an outsider. He's your star player and Dallas is your team. You feel differently and I understand that.

 

[VicVinegar]

Honestly, what has Seguin shown since he's been in Dallas that leads you to believe he is the "type" of player who can carry Dallas on his back to the promised land? He's had some good points but what have the Stars done with him? Even last year they signed Radulov and Bishop... supposedly addressing their two main areas of weakness... and squat.

Seguin is a PPG defensively responsible center. The Stars' lack of success has absolutely nothing to do with him.

 

[Boxscore]

Seguin is a PPG defensively responsible center. The Stars' lack of success has absolutely nothing to do with him.

I'm not singling him out. But let me ask you an honest question - if you straight swapped Seguin with Crosby straight up 4 years ago, don't you think Dallas would have accomplished more during that time? Point being - any player who is making 12%, 14% of your cap must be someone who can help get you far. You need payoff for that, not just good numbers.

I can't remember being to the point where Seguin has taken Dallas far, and I've felt like, "man, if they only got another piece to surround Seguin with, this is a Cup team!" Yes, he's a great player, but I'm just a tad skeptical about his overall impact. I mean, if we're being honest, Dallas has underachieved as a group. And if Seguin's their best player, he plays a big part in that. You can't just give him extra credit for his accomplishments and zero blame for failures. That's not being objective.

Not for anything, but Seguin publicly saying "he's disappointed" indicates that he might not be the most mature player in the league. Would you ever see a Sid, Ovechkin, Toews, come out and say that? Heck no. In fact, their deals are done, signed and delivered promptly. Why not with Seguin? I think Dallas has some questions. I could be totally out to lunch on this one though.

 

[KingsFan7824]

That's fine, but explain to me how a team can be a legit contender if they are paying one player 14 million or a Tyler Seguin 12 million? Only two teams in recent history have won Cups when having their cap dominated by two elite-paid, megastars: Pittsburgh and Chicago. That's it. Even the Caps finally won a Cup and thanks in part to players like Backstrom who were willing to take less to help keep the team competitive.

That's why Yzerman is building Tampa with the right players and people - those who are all willing to take less to ice a competitive team for the long haul.

If a player wants to be a mercenary or GMs want to just throw ludicrous money around, that's on them, but it rarely, if ever, results in team success.

Even take the Leafs for example. How are they going to keep Matthews, Marner, Nylander and address the defense after paying Tavares what they did? They are going to need to make some very tough decisions.

The way I see it, unless a player is an absolute elite player like Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kane, MacDavid, teams need to be very careful with whom they pay those elite dollars to.

Look, I'm by no means suggesting that Seguin isn't a superstar in the NHL, he is. But there comes a time where teams need to take a breath and re-access before they commit to something with long-term ramifications. Just because everyone else is throwing money around like crazy, doesn't mean you need to follow them into the inferno.

If Seguin truly wants to be part of the Stars long-term, it's in his best interest to give them a hometown discount - a legit one - and not go the Tavares route. If the poster above is correct in that Benn took less to leave some money for Seguin, then he owes it to Benn and the rest of his team to do the same for the betterment of the group. If Seguin wants top dollar, he might need to look elsewhere, who knows. But, there's a reason he hasn't been locked up yet.

Chicago didn't do that. The current cap hits for Kane and Toews started in 15-16, after they won that 3rd Cup. Since those contracts, they have the 3 playoff wins in 3 years. Pittsburgh has Crosby on a pre-2013 contract, at a ridiculous $8.7m hit. Tampa, there's the tax thing, and you're making it sound maybe a little too romantic. The right players and people. Maybe, but the tax thing does matter, and basically everyone on the team has at least a NTC. Even Dan Girardi for some reason.

It easier to take a little less, if anyone on TB has actually done that, when you haven't won. Seguin may not have done much in 2011, but his name is on the Cup. And the money is far more guaranteed than even playing in the Final, let alone winning it all.

 

[M88K]

I'm not singling him out. But let me ask you an honest question - if you straight swapped Seguin with Crosby straight up 4 years ago, don't you think Dallas would have accomplished more during that time? Point being - any player who is making 12%, 14% of your cap must be someone who can help get you far. You need payoff for that, not just good numbers.

I can't remember being to the point where Seguin has taken Dallas far, and I've felt like, "man, if they only got another piece to surround Seguin with, this is a Cup team!" Yes, he's a great player, but I'm just a tad skeptical about his overall impact. I mean, if we're being honest, Dallas has underachieved as a group. And if Seguin's their best player, he plays a big part in that. You can't just give him extra credit for his accomplishments and zero blame for failures. That's not being objective.

Not for anything, but Seguin publicly saying "he's disappointed" indicates that he might not be the most mature player in the league. Would you ever see a Sid, Ovechkin, Toews, come out and say that? Heck no. In fact, their deals are done, signed and delivered promptly. Why not with Seguin? I think Dallas has some questions. I could be totally out to lunch on this one though.

What Exactly did Crosby accomplish?
Malkin carried the team in 09, but had Guerin, Gonchar, Letang, Crosby all Contributing
Then you had Malkin, Kessel, Crosby, Guentzal, Letang and Murray as big contributors in their last 2 runs.
Dallas has Benn, Seguin, and Klingberg,
But has had a huge dropoff after that. Radulov was a step in the right direction but he can't drive a line like Malkin/Kessel can the Pens 2nd and 3rd lines

If Trade Seguin for Crosby, they still are finishing in the exact same spots
The Goal Differences between the two over the last 4 years are
137 for Crosby to 136 for Seguin.

1 more goal doesn't equal several more wins (if even 1) in any season. The team GF over the last 4 years
272,284,245,221 for Pits(1022)
235,223,267,261 for Dal (986)

And the two years dallas had a high powered Offense, they didn't know what Defense was, let alone have a goalie the quality of Fluery or Murray.

You're delusional if you think the stars Roster + Crosby make any significant improvement

 

[BAM]

Last 5 years:
Seguin - 387GP 173G 384PTS
Tavares - 378GP 160G 372PTS

He's the same player offensively as Tavares and produces at the same level. There's hardly any difference between the two. He'll be getting north of 10 million dollars per year for sure.

Cool...Seguin plays with Benn, JT has never had a teammate of that quality or even close to it.