News Article: Sather on Mcdonagh "I'd never seen him play"

[FF de Mars]

It's in the past !

 

[FF de Mars]

It's in the past !

Écritire rien et plus.

 

[Whitesnake]

#1. Gainey's daughter was lost at sea in 2006. Truly tragic, but it was 4 years earlier and if he couldn't move on, he had to step down.
#2. If Gauthier didn't like McDonagh, does that mean he told Gainey.. just throw him in the deal to sweeten the pot ? I am trying to understand how Gauthier not liking McDo can lead to McDo being used as a throw-in. Besides, logically, shouldn't the GM trust his amateur scouts more on the value of a prospect than his ass-GM ?
#3. Did Gainey try to negotiate a little bit with Sather... was Sather holding out for a first round prospect, I strongly doubt it. Acquiring Gomez in itself wasn't THAT bad.. he was an "okay" replacement for Koivu... the problem was to give something of value for a negative value asset and help out sather free cap space to sign Gaborik. That speaks of a GM that didn't have his finger on the pulse of the NHL around him. Regardless of how badly surrounded he was.

Again, and for the last time, don't get me wrong. Since we're not on the inside of it all, GM takes most of the blame for sure. Yes, Gainey was dumb to not trust his amateur head scout. But if his right hand man is clear as to how he was not impressed by McDonagh, he might not need his head scout after all. GAINEY'S mistake for sure....by far. But Gauthier didn't help with that report. And he didn't help period to make sure that trade wouldn't happen. I'm going with the fact that a GM consults his people close to him. And based on the fact that Timmins didn't seem to be consulted, I'm guessing even more that he gave a lot of power to other people around him. I'm sorry but until I learn it somehow, there is NO WAY a GM wakes up a morning, couldn't care about what people around him says, decided to be the only guy to go totally the opposite way of where people says and make a move. You do not surround yourselves with people without listening to them. And if you did and they disagreed, you might have decided to go anyway....but not if the other parties STRONGLY disagree with you with points like that "Geez Bob, how about you talk to Trevor"? He didn't do it or couldn't care less which makes me believe that the 2 stooges worked together on this. But hey at this point, nobody will change anybody's mind. But for the record, I'm putting most of the blame on Gainey who is the guy who takes the last decision. For sure. But Gauthier never proved to me all those years that he was a competent head of pro scouting....And I think we have TONS of other proofs in the regard.

 

[Whitesnake]

It's in the past !

Funny part is that the link is not working and in french it's written "UNE ERREUR S'EST PRODUITE VEUILLEZ RESSAYER ULTÉRIEUREMENT..."Your god damn right a mistake was made....and that one day, we will retry and be, ourselves, on the right hand, of an incredible deal that will work out for years to come. As of now, lately, the only great deal that got us a KEY player goes back to Gorges or.....Kovalev. Far from McDonagh.....

Yes...it's in the past...with views of the player in the present and in the future for at least another 10 years. John Leclair's all over again with the exception that thank god, Leclair's career lasted only 12 seasons while we should have another 10 great seasons of McDo. Can't wait till it happens to us...

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Gauthier and Gainey are both gone and the team is better because of it. Can't defend either of those guys and I actually like Gainey. He did a good job when he first came in but made some huge blunders.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

These ****ing McDonagh trades are so intellectually lazy.

Until there is definitive proof otherwise, 100% of the credit and 100% of the blame falls on the guy calling the shots.

I defended Gauthier from the gaggles of brainless stumps ONLY because I objected to all these complainers and liars.

You can't blame pro-scouting for what was clearly a top-level, designed strategy: (finally) get a #1 centre and then sign some consummate professional FAs. It's not nearly as complicated as all the cloak and dagger nonsense some are saying about Gauthier.

Gainey had a stupid plan and he carried on with it. The whole point of being an is executive is calling the shots based on YOUR OWN FINAL JUDGEMENT.

As bad as you think Gauthier was, Gainey's moves are only Gainey's until proven otherwise.

If he were so weak as to get bullied into making a move (like some of you are implying) then he should've never been an executive in the first place. But how their careers have gone since then is a strong indicator that Gauthier is a sharp hockey mind with poor social skills and Gainey is a regressive dunce resting on his laurels. The laughingstock he and Nieuy made of Dallas should not be forgotten either.

All in all, I'm glad both are gone. I still don't see anything decisively good about Bergevin though - he nickle and dimes our star players, and the Briere contract was TERRIBLE. His drafting seems loony too. We'll see.

 

[DAChampion]

A historical refresher:

- Gainey tried to acquire Mats Sundin, and failed twice. First he failed to acquire him at the 2008 trade deadline for I forget which package, then he traded Grabovski for the negotiating rights to Sundin and Sundin chose to go to Vancouver.
- Gainey tried to acquire Vincent Lecavalier. He offered a package at the time of Plekanec, Higgins, Gorges, Subban and three 1st rounders, I think the 1st round picks were 2009, 2011, and 2013. The Lightning would have ended up with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Nathan MacKinnon.
- In the 2009 NHL entry draft, Gainey went drunk on drafting centres. An unprecedented five of the eight draft picks were centres, including Louis Leblanc in the 1st round, Joonas Nattinen in the 3rd round, Gabriel Dumont in the 5th round, Dustin Walsh in the 6th round, and Mike Cichy in the 7th round, all busts.
- In the summer of 2009, Gainey went drunk acquiring "project players" who could maybe one day become NHL centres. He got Detroit castoff Mikael Johansson and undrafted centre Andreas Engvist.

So it makes sense that Gainey would overpay for Scott Gomez. He was in an emotionally psychotic zone where he was compelled to do whatever it takes to acquire a centre.

Once Pierre Gauthier took over, things calmed down mostly. The only major centre acquisitions was that of Lars Eller.

 

[Whitesnake]

These ****ing McDonagh trades are so intellectually lazy.

All in all, I'm glad both are gone. I still don't see anything decisively good about Bergevin though - he nickle and dimes our star players, and the Briere contract was TERRIBLE. His drafting seems loony too. We'll see.

See, I'd be more with the thought that solely blaming Gainey WAS intellectually lazy. You sometimes have to go beyond that and understand that management is still a team work. Yes, eventually, the guy at the highest position CALLS the shots. But I will not believe that he called ALL the shots without his closest people always being against it. Which then brings the point "Why the heck would you have such people around you if you don't listen to them or go totally the opposite to what they're suggesting". But yes, he eventually calls the shot.

But then you end up talking how Bergevin's DRAFTS seems loony when he probably saw 1/100 of the games Timmins and his draft guys saw but I guess that every decision a team makes are all about the GM. Which I don't believe. Blame the GM for not surrounding himself for great people. But at one point, it's still a team work, whether it's with Gainey or whoever. And mostly when it's time to talk drafting.....the GM relies on his draft gurus. He might say what he wants in the direction of his team. But if Timmins sees a great player still available that might not be directly related to the team strategy, he'll convince Bergevin to go with his player. Pretty sure that Reway wasn't in the team strategy. Smallish player with work ethic and attitude issues and still...he was our pick.

 

[Raimu]

All in all, I'm glad both are gone. I still don't see anything decisively good about Bergevin though - he nickle and dimes our star players, and the Briere contract was TERRIBLE. His drafting seems loony too. We'll see.

1: Why is this a thing around here? Nickle and dimes our star players... it's his job to negotiate. It's not a bad thing that he's doing that.

2: Briere was acquired because he is traditionally a playoff performer. He scored some big goals for us this playoffs. We have another year of Briere, unless we can find a trade, but I don't think it's crippling or "TERRIBLE". David Clarkson contract is TERRIBLE, Briere's is a medium risk/reward thing.

3: After 2 drafts his drafting is loony? I don't quite get that?

 

[Whitesnake]

Once Pierre Gauthier took over, things calmed down mostly. The only major centre acquisitions was that of Lars Eller.

Thing calmed down? Yep...because we sucked it did. And that Cunneyworth hiring was CLEARLY a sign of things calming down. Gauthier, and I'd give him that, understood that when you sucked, you do make sure you suck bad. And he got draft picks for that. Which I'd be surprise to see Gainey do. But prior to that.....he did got Kaberle. The guy was not GM that long and YET we had to use the compliance buyouts because of a mistake HE made.

Yet, while people recognize the picks we got for Kosty and Gill, what people seems to forget is that Gauthier has traded just as many picks as we got some. Gauthier got: 1st, 3 2nds, 3 4ths, 2 5ths . And traded 1st, 3 2nds, 3rd, 4th, 3 5ths, 7th. I would say that Gauthier was more succesful than Gainey but that's not exactly the type of comparison you want to win....Yep, he might have gotten Moore and Wiz, but I'm sorry, I'm not going to praise a guy who keeps the "great" players he gets for half of a season. That's not what builds you a team. Same Moore who was let go after playing such a key role in the playoffs.

Gainey was bad in his final years. Pretty bad. Mostly responsible for how average we were for a long time. Gauthier was better, did make some good moves. But is not the great GM that people wish him to be. 'Cause if he was....he'd be a GM somewhere. Can't wait to see that happen. And IF it happens, can't wait to see how he builds his team.

 

[Raimu]

Gainey has been off his rocker ever since he lost his daughter. I feel bad for that, and hope he stays in/enjoys retirement.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

These ****ing McDonagh trades are so intellectually lazy.

Until there is definitive proof otherwise, 100% of the credit and 100% of the blame falls on the guy calling the shots.

I defended Gauthier from the gaggles of brainless stumps ONLY because I objected to all these complainers and liars.

You can't blame pro-scouting for what was clearly a top-level, designed strategy: (finally) get a #1 centre and then sign some consummate professional FAs. It's not nearly as complicated as all the cloak and dagger nonsense some are saying about Gauthier.

Gainey had a stupid plan and he carried on with it. The whole point of being an is executive is calling the shots based on YOUR OWN FINAL JUDGEMENT.

As bad as you think Gauthier was, Gainey's moves are only Gainey's until proven otherwise.

If he were so weak as to get bullied into making a move (like some of you are implying) then he should've never been an executive in the first place. But how their careers have gone since then is a strong indicator that Gauthier is a sharp hockey mind with poor social skills and Gainey is a regressive dunce resting on his laurels. The laughingstock he and Nieuy made of Dallas should not be forgotten either.

All in all, I'm glad both are gone. I still don't see anything decisively good about Bergevin though - he nickle and dimes our star players, and the Briere contract was TERRIBLE. His drafting seems loony too. We'll see.

Both were bad and neither will be a GM again. Gauthier had terrible social skills but he wasn't a good GM either. Cole deal was bad. The Kaberle deal was bad. Standing pat at the deadlines = bad. Cammeleri deal = bad. Halak deal wasn't all that great either especially when you consider he didn't even shop him. A number of poor deals and he was barely GM.

Gainey takes the blame like a parent would if their child does something dumb. Gainey was not the type of GM that actually scouted players. He relied heavily on the people around him. The people around him sucked and that's why we have so many poor deals and decisions.

People have this deluded view that Gauthier was competent. He wasn't.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Thing calmed down? Yep...because we sucked it did. And that Cunneyworth hiring was CLEARLY a sign of things calming down. Gauthier, and I'd give him that, understood that when you sucked, you do make sure you suck bad. And he got draft picks for that. Which I'd be surprise to see Gainey do. But prior to that.....he did got Kaberle. The guy was not GM that long and YET we had to use the compliance buyouts because of a mistake HE made.

Yet, while people recognize the picks we got for Kosty and Gill, what people seems to forget is that Gauthier has traded just as many picks as we got some. Gauthier got: 1st, 3 2nds, 3 4ths, 2 5ths . And traded 1st, 3 2nds, 3rd, 4th, 3 5ths, 7th. I would say that Gauthier was more succesful than Gainey but that's not exactly the type of comparison you want to win....Yep, he might have gotten Moore and Wiz, but I'm sorry, I'm not going to praise a guy who keeps the "great" players he gets for half of a season. That's not what builds you a team. Same Moore who was let go after playing such a key role in the playoffs.

Gainey was bad in his final years. Pretty bad. Mostly responsible for how average we were for a long time. Gauthier was better, did make some good moves. But is not the great GM that people wish him to be. 'Cause if he was....he'd be a GM somewhere. Can't wait to see that happen. And IF it happens, can't wait to see how he builds his team.

Gauthier had a number of supporters. The many people who thought he fleeced Calgary by getting Bourque . The people who thought getting Kaberle for Spacek was a great deal!

Getting Wiz was good...but for what he gave up, should have kept him. We still need a Wiz type player on the 2nd pairing. He gave up a 2nd for Moore and then let him walk. A guy we STILL have not replaced. He saw the 4th line as an aftter thought bringing in crap off the street. Halpern was decent but old.

What exactly did he do in Anaheim? Not a damn thing. Poor GM who looked better only because he followed an even poorer GM.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

1: Why is this a thing around here? Nickle and dimes our star players... it's his job to negotiate. It's not a bad thing that he's doing that.

2: Briere was acquired because he is traditionally a playoff performer. He scored some big goals for us this playoffs. We have another year of Briere, unless we can find a trade, but I don't think it's crippling or "TERRIBLE". David Clarkson contract is TERRIBLE, Briere's is a medium risk/reward thing.

3: After 2 drafts his drafting is loony? I don't quite get that?

There is no defending the Briere signing. That was a terrible decision. Bergy is odd in the sense that he'll nickel and dime certain players (which I don't have a problem with) but will pay through the nose for others. My issue is he nickel and dimed the wrong player.

What would this place look like if he nickel and dimed Price? He didn't. IMO, you don't nickel and dime your best players and that's exactly what he did with PK. I understand it's a negotiation, but that doesn't mean you try to fleece your star players.

You nickel and dime UFAs and low end players.

 

[DAChampion]

Yet, while people recognize the picks we got for Kosty and Gill, what people seems to forget is that Gauthier has traded just as many picks as we got some. Gauthier got: 1st, 3 2nds, 3 4ths, 2 5ths . And traded 1st, 3 2nds, 3rd, 4th, 3 5ths, 7th.

Right, because you're counting the Tinordi trade as losing a 2nd rounder, which is frivolous arithmetic.

 

[Raimu]

There is no defending the Briere signing. That was a terrible decision. Bergy is odd in the sense that he'll nickel and dime certain players (which I don't have a problem with) but will pay through the nose for others. My issue is he nickel and dimed the wrong player.

What would this place look like if he nickel and dimed Price? He didn't. IMO, you don't nickel and dime your best players and that's exactly what he did with PK. I understand it's a negotiation, but that doesn't mean you try to fleece your star players.

You nickel and dime UFAs and low end players.

That's your opinion. Other people may not agree with it, you should learn this.

If Briere had gotten us into the finals or had like 5-10 goals in the playoffs this is a totally different discussion. It's a medium risk contract with a potentially high reward. We had the cap to make that happen, so I have no real issue with it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

For those of you saying move on... forget about it. The hockey world is not going to let us forget this trade until McD retires or moves on from NY. That's how it is so get used to it.

Every time we play him. Every time he advances. Every time he wins something of significance we will hear/read about it. That's what happens when you make stupid trades. As I said at the time, it was an awful trade and "now all we have is to wait and see how awful it will be"... well here we are. Its not going to get better anytime soon so get used to it.

That's your opinion. Other people may not agree with it, you should learn this.

If Briere had gotten us into the finals or had like 5-10 goals in the playoffs this is a totally different discussion. It's a medium risk contract with a potentially high reward. We had the cap to make that happen, so I have no real issue with it.

And if Douglas Murray had won the Norris we'd have said that was a good signing too.

The Briere move made no sense and we could've spent our money better elsewhere. Jagr would've been good.

 

[Raimu]

For those of you saying move on... forget about it. The hockey world is not going to let us forget this trade until McD retires or moves on from NY. That's how it is so get used to it.

Every time we play him. Every time he advances. Every time he wins something of significance we will hear/read about it. That's what happens when you make stupid trades. As I said at the time, it was an awful trade and "now all we have is to wait and see how awful it will be"... well here we are. Its not going to get better anytime soon so get used to it.

I will rebuttal with: Move on.

Yea, it was a really bad trade, nothing we can do about it now. People are gonna bring it up, not much you can do to stop that. Eh. Most of us as fans hated it at the time, but, what's done is done.

Take your own advice: get used to it. And don't let it bother you; You didn't make the trade.

And if Douglas Murray had won the Norris we'd have said that was a good signing too.

The Briere move made no sense and we could've spent our money better elsewhere. Jagr would've been good.

Could we have? Do you know that those discussions weren't had? I'd say they likely were in contact with Jagr. Maybe like a lot of people he doesn't want to play here? He signed in Dallas, got traded to Boston, and then left to re-sign in New Jersey. Maybe he just wants to play in low pressure markets? Plus, he's much more familiar with the New York area (does he have a house there?). Maybe Montreal wasn't somewhere he would consider. You don't know that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I didn't want Gomez, and a bunch others on here didn't want him. He was terrible and Sather wanted to unload that atrocious contract and sign a good player, but he ended up getting more than that.

Gainey was the sucker that bit on it. We lost a solid defenceman who not only was a solid D-Man, but could also put up points. Now we only have PK if we don't resign Markov, and he is liability on D with his wonky knee's. Markov has one maybe 2 years left in him.

I wouldn't be surprised if his production next year drops like a rock. We could have had 3 solid scoring defencemen who could rack up points. We have nothing in the organization for scoring defencemen. Tinordi could be a solid plug, thats it. I guess we better resign the Cube.

That is why Bergevin needs to sign and overpay an over the hill D-Man like Markov. We have nothing else behind him. Losing McDo created all this subpar D we have. Not only do the Habs need to look for forwards, but D-Men too. This could turn ugly. I don't see us having the season we had last year. The reason why we went deeper in the playoffs was guys like Weise and the Cube scoring goals for us.

Beaulieu is going to be really good.

Pretty much exactly how I picture Gauthier actually...

#1. Gainey's daughter was lost at sea in 2006. Truly tragic, but it was 4 years earlier and if he couldn't move on, he had to step down.

He should've stepped down. His head wasn't in the game and how could it be? I can tell you that if I lost my daughter the last thing on my mind would be hockey...

and one more thing.....What if Higgins became the HFBoArd and self proclaimed 40/40 guy we all thought he would be???????

When you think about it, it could have been a lot worse man.

Yup. Higgins for Gomez would've been bad enough.

We won the Kovalev trade. They won the McDonagh trade. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Deal with it, and move on.

Kovalev trade happened before Gainey's tragedy.

I really think Gauthier was running the team afterwards. Then again, Gainey signed Samsonov before that happened so you never know.

I will rebuttal with: Move on.

Yea, it was a really bad trade, nothing we can do about it now. People are gonna bring it up, not much you can do to stop that. Eh. Most of us as fans hated it at the time, but, what's done is done.

Take your own advice: get used to it. And don't let it bother you; You didn't make the trade.

We've all moved on.

Then McD makes a great play.... then its brought up in conversation. Then NBC or CBC or now Rogers brings it up... Then another thread like this pops up...

Like I said, it won't end until he either retires or is traded. Get used to it.

Could we have? Do you know that those discussions weren't had? I'd say they likely were in contact with Jagr. Maybe like a lot of people he doesn't want to play here? He signed in Dallas, got traded to Boston, and then left to re-sign in New Jersey. Maybe he just wants to play in low pressure markets? Plus, he's much more familiar with the New York area (does he have a house there?). Maybe Montreal wasn't somewhere he would consider. You don't know that.

I know that we signed Briere before free agent season even opened and I know Jagr was still available. I know that we made that decision right away and it made no sense.

 

[Raimu]

Beaulieu is going to be really good.

We've all moved on.

Then McD makes a great play.... then its brought up in conversation. Then NBC or CBC or now Rogers brings it up... Then another thread like this pops up...

Like I said, it won't end until he either retires or is traded. Get used to it.

I'm confused what are you arguing?

Clearly we haven't all moved on, this thread exists. So no, you're wrong there.

Second point, yea, we agree, its gonna come up, don't let it bother you. The "get over it" part is that people need to stop making these threads. It won't happen, but, in a perfect world, we can only dream.

Also to be fair, at the time Samsonov was coming off a pretty decent playoff run with the oil.

RE: Breire , honestly I'm not a huge fan of the signing, but I'm not calling for MB's head over it. I think Free Agency in general is crap since the cap came into place. I'd much rather a Breire at 2 years then Lecavelier at 4 or Richards at 7 tho... or Clarkson at whatever he got... If you're gonna gamble with the UFA market, then 2 years at 4.25 isn't a bad way to do it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm confused what are you arguing?

Clearly we haven't all moved on, this thread exists. So no, you're wrong there.

Second point, yea, we agree, its gonna come up, don't let it bother you. The "get over it" part is that people need to stop making these threads. It won't happen, but, in a perfect world, we can only dream.

Also to be fair, at the time Samsonov was coming off a pretty decent playoff run with the oil.

What I'm saying is that we've moved on... but it will always come back up. And then it will be discussed. Then we will forget about it again until the next time.

It is what it is.

RE: Breire , honestly I'm not a huge fan of the signing, but I'm not calling for MB's head over it. I think Free Agency in general is crap since the cap came into place. I'd much rather a Breire at 2 years then Lecavelier at 4 or Richards at 7 tho... or Clarkson at whatever he got... If you're gonna gamble with the UFA market, then 2 years at 4.25 isn't a bad way to do it.

I'm not calling for his head either but it was a bad move. That money could've been better spent elsewhere.

 

[Raimu]

I'm not calling for his head either but it was a bad move. That money could've been better spent elsewhere.

Eh, if we move him at the draft for like, any asset, I still think its a good move.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Eh, if we move him at the draft for like, any asset, I still think its a good move.

There were better options available and quite frankly getting a small over the hill center who we usually used as a winger on our 4th line made no sense.

That's all I'm going to say on this here.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

That's your opinion. Other people may not agree with it, you should learn this.

If Briere had gotten us into the finals or had like 5-10 goals in the playoffs this is a totally different discussion. It's a medium risk contract with a potentially high reward. We had the cap to make that happen, so I have no real issue with it.

And he didn't. Completely useless signing that took $4M/per off the cap and took up a roster spot. And just as easy as it is for you to say "what if" a great playoff. I can "what if" Price didn't go into God mode all season and we finished at the bottom? That Briere signing would look even worse.

 

[Whitesnake]

Right, because you're counting the Tinordi trade as losing a 2nd rounder, which is frivolous arithmetic.

Why? It didn't happen? See, I just took it for what it was. I said that Gauthier got us a 1st rounder. Which is also not true...but you didn't mention it. End-result is that for the 1st rounder and 4th he got us....we traded a 1st and 2nd. So the reality is that for the swap cost us a 2nd rounder. I'm fine with that if it made us got a great player. I'm not saying he shouldn't. Just saying that people talk about Gauthier's and his picks as if he never gave them and only received it. Remove that Tinordi move if you want. It's still not as clear cut as Gauthier got everything and never gave away anything.