Post-Game Talk: Sat., Oct. 12 2013|Flyers 2 at Red Wings 5

[Winston Wolf]

The one major problem I have with people complaining about kimmo is he is by far still this teams best defensive zone defender. It's not even close. He is rarely, I mean rarely, out of position in the d-zone. He plays a great, sound defensive game, even though he has lost some foot speed.

Also the pass he tried to make he clearly fanned on it. It he doesn't fan on it, giroux might roof the shot and tie the game up. Yes the opportunity for the shot was there, but he tried to set up a player with the goalie going laterally across the crease. It sucks that it didn't get through, but I won't crucify him for it. He's defensive zone play is what is most important, and he provides that better than anyone else

Timonen is fine and the people saying he's done are wrong. That being said, he's playing too much and he shouldn't be the go to guy on the point at this junction of his career. He's overall been good, but his mistakes have been glaring and at crucial times in each game.

We've seen some boneheaded plays from Rinaldo and Rosehill this season, but Timonen's play tonight was the worst. He had the best look in front of the net that anyone has had all year and he made a real terrible decision. Even if he got that pass through, it wasn't even a guarantee Giroux would've gotten a shot off as the defender was pretty tight on him.

 

[funghoul]

teams are so aggressive against our PP and attacking the puck carrier in the zone hard. and they don't seem to moving it quick or adjusting whatsoever.

this is it right here. were slow adults when it comes to creative decision making. and physically most of the time. were getting better tho. last week we woulda lost this game 8-0. btw emery blows. time to ride mason into the ground. just sad when rinaldo's your best dude.

 

[Laveuglette]

Gus and Mcginn belong on this roster full time.


Schenn again the lowest toi on the ice. JVR 2 more goals......how bad is this trade looking.

This trade was actually bad, yes... but it isn't because Schenn is bad. JVR is a heck of a player.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

i really want Rosehill and Newbury off this team.but we know that isnt going to happen.
Berube says they need to stop taking penalties.
"Its been a problem with this organization for far too long" Berube says.
then why do we keep employing stupid ****ing hockey players?

oh yeah Holmgren keeps giving stupid players contracts.

 

[Garbage Goal]

i really want Rosehill and Newbury off this team.but we know that isnt going to happen.
Berube says they need to stop taking penalties.
"Its been a problem with this organization for far too long" Berube says.
then why do we keep employing stupid ****ing hockey players?

oh yeah Holmgren keeps giving stupid players contracts.

Wow glad someone finally has the balls to say it that actually has power. Now if only Homer had a brain.

Where's the wizard of Oz when you need him?

 

[Flyotes]

I missed this game. Put it on the radio in the car at the end of the second for two seconds, didn't even get the score, asked myself if I really care at all, and turned to music. Maybe I'm getting too old or too tired of same ole Flyers/LetDownFest. 15 years of fandom. Failure going back to the seventies. This crap worth it anymore? I've got to see them lose two cups, but Leighton. Really? That was the plan.

In all honesty, some of the personnel and coaching decisions show an intelligence I wouldn't let change my oil.

 

[tymed]

Brayden was the most fun to watch...He seems to be finding himself in the right spots so far this season, landing the puck on his stick for a lot of big chances. That being said, his ability to finish these open shots has shown to be fairly poor so far. It's nice to see that he seems comfortable on the wing thats where we need him. Fun to see him body the puck up the boards with success... probing to make a pass or even cut in for a shot. Hopefully he can sharpen up on his intight finishing, he could be a huge difference maker for us with all the chances he's getting.

For me Couts seemed to be the one who sparked the charge early in the 1st and got a few guys going before he kind of faded into the background behind them.

Read. Enough said.

Mcginn, better than Hartnell.

Was nice to see G get a point and not pass so much. Everyone in the league seems to routinely intercept his beautiful no look passes because it's the play he's going for 90+% when he's not playing with confidence.

Talbot looked dece too. Would make our 4th line a thousand times better, maybe more.

Simmonds and Jake were on the ice.

Emery took what little chances we hold of winning any game. Our defense is kinda weak as a unit, Gus had a good game.

Reffing was bad enough down there to mention imo.

Sadly, I've come to feel like we have something to gain by getting a brief look at our lineup without Hartnell regardless of my love for the guy. It's not a cap friendly world.

End of the day I'm pleased here as apart from the scoreboard, we looked to take another step towards something more organized and flowing.

 

[blinds]

Wow were special teams bad.. Let in 3 PPG when Detroit hadn't scored yet, and couldn't get one PPG of our own on 4 opportunities. Team is taking way too many penalties, it sounds like Berube will be trying to address it, but we'll have to see. PP and PK need to be much better.

Giroux looked relieved after he got that first point, Voracek is looking better but turned the puck over a lot.

Brayden looks beast at center, if he keeps it up maybe Vinny should be up on G's line. Might mean bumping Voracek down to Schenn's.
Edit: Schenn's 23.5% on the dot.. faceoffs killed us last year, don't want to lose that edge we get with Vinny.

Luke had another bone-headed turnover I noticed, made me think of what Toronto fans always say about him.

Emery gave up a couple softies but 3 of them were PPG's. That's on the team for taking the penalties and playing ****** on the PK more than on him IMO.

Even strength play is improving a lot though, I'm happy with the progress so far with Berube. If only he can get our special teams going like last year, we should be able to compete.

Oh yeah and Coburn was awful and took 2 more minors. He's the most frustrating player.

 

[Garbage Goal]

I missed this game. Put it on the radio in the car at the end of the second for two seconds, didn't even get the score, asked myself if I really care at all, and turned to music. Maybe I'm getting too old or too tired of same ole Flyers/LetDownFest. 15 years of fandom. Failure going back to the seventies. This crap worth it anymore? I've got to see them lose two cups, but Leighton. Really? That was the plan.

In all honesty, some of the personnel and coaching decisions show an intelligence I wouldn't let change my oil.

I've only been a fan half as long and I'm already in a similar state. I'll never stop being a fan of the NHL or cheering for the Flyers but my passion is rapidly dwindling.

I realize we make the playoffs most years, but as of late that hasn't been true and even beyond that when we were making the playoffs it was always marred by idiotic decisions that usually ended up screwing us one way or another. I can only suffer through so many Leighton's, Boucher's, Shelley's, Bryzgalov's, Rosehill's, Cote's, three game coach firing's, emergency tryouts (remember those?), unfair and uncalled for media rumors, player disrespect (Gagne, Richards, Carter mainly), disappointing seasons, never addressing team needs (never keeping a true-blue starter, seeming like we always need a number one D, always drafting and being way too deep at C), lack of direction, seeing players excel once they leave Philly and usually because we forced them out unfairly (Sharp, Richards, Carter, Bobrovsky are all shining examples), or just flat-out getting screwed over by injuries or cruel fate (by cruel fate my mind automatically defaults to losing Patrick Kane to the draft lottery then having him clinch the SC against us years later while we get...JVR). Just gets tiring and predictable to a certain extent.

I didn't even fit Pronger's hilarious 35+ contract misunderstanding in there.

 

[Harold Bingo]

They are definitely improving more every game. This was their best game yet, regardless of the score. Emery let in a couple of softies and the penalties need to come down, but their even strength play was the best it's been this season and they were in this game the whole way.

Gus, Read, McGinn, and Raffl all played really well I thought. If Vinny comes back and Hartnell's still out, I'd like to see something like this:

Read - Giroux - Lacavalier
Simmonds - Schenn - Voracek
McGinn - Couturier - Raffl
Rinaldo - Hall - Talbot

 

[Flyotes]

I feel you, Garbage Goal. At this point, there is a metric ton of garbage to be annoyed about (some of it is debatable).

It's been a very significant blow to my optimism watching some of my favorite players: Lindros, Primeau, and Pronger, all get destroyed by concussions and have to watch the lull that existed for seasons after as a result.

 

[Garbage Goal]

I feel you, Garbage Goal. At this point, there is a metric ton of garbage to be annoyed about (some of it is debatable).

It's been a very significant blow to my optimism watching some of my favorite players: Lindros, Primeau, and Pronger, all get destroyed by concussions and have to watch the lull that existed for seasons after as a result.

Yeah, Lindros, Premeau, and Pronger are prime examples of us getting screwed just by virtue of getting screwed. I can take that. What annoys me is the controllable mistakes and problems. What's most bothersome though is that it always takes too long for someone to get dealt with or to face repercussions. This extends from Stevens and Laviolette to Holmgren to scrub players like Shelley, Rosehill, Cote, Leighton, etc.

 

[Garbage Goal]

I mean, there's some really obvious stuff that always goes uncorrected by management to the point that it's obvious to most of the smart fans out there that something should be done. People knew Leighton was a horrible idea and would blow up in our faces. He blows up in the SCF, they sign him again, and we get rid of him soon after. People clamor for Laviolette to be gone in the off-season which intensifies as the preseason goes and they wait till three games into the season to do it. Nobody liked the Shelley or Talbot signings and look how they've gone and are going.

Obviously the fans aren't infallible nor always right but usually the smart, hardcore bunch notice the egregious mistakes way before management ever corrects them. It's just frustrating. Like some mistakes are so obvious that any knowledgeable fan knows that it's a mistake yet management can't even seem to notice those type of things or act on them quickly.

Not sure if you get what I mean.

 

[kolankosf]

The one major problem I have with people complaining about kimmo is he is by far still this teams best defensive zone defender. It's not even close. He is rarely, I mean rarely, out of position in the d-zone. He plays a great, sound defensive game, even though he has lost some foot speed.

I whole heartedly agree with you. He absolutely is the better defender when a) his opponent isn't faster and b) he isn't taking unnecessary holding penalties (Goes for Coburn too). His poor clearing of the puck on the pk was also not typical Kimmo, but it has been a pattern from the tail end of last season through to now.

I didn't feel he was worth the 6.5m he was under contract for, when they inked him to this years 6m contract, considering how broken down he gets. No one will ever question Kimmo's heart, tenacity and the fact that he would battle through hell for the Flyers regardless of his injuries he's sustained. The guy is pure WARRIOR. Infact, now that Lappy and Berube are at the helm, he's working harder than ever to block shots. But as it was explained to me earlier in hockey, if you're constantly diving and sprawling to block shots, you're probably out of position.

Ideally, it would be nice to pair him with Gus, and play him on the 2nd PP unit... giving way to Streit. Depending on how much PP time we get, have Kimmo give us a solid 15-17 mins while using Coburn/Grossman Schenn/Streit to log the rest.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still very positive about this team, they played great today! Goaltending may have been reminiscent of years past, but overall it was a step in the right direction. I am very excited to see more of Raffl, and possibly McGinn if he can continue to bring it.

 

[blinds]

I've only been a fan half as long and I'm already in a similar state. I'll never stop being a fan of the NHL or cheering for the Flyers but my passion is rapidly dwindling.

I realize we make the playoffs most years, but as of late that hasn't been true and even beyond that when we were making the playoffs it was always marred by idiotic decisions that usually ended up screwing us one way or another. I can only suffer through so many Leighton's, Boucher's, Shelley's, Bryzgalov's, Rosehill's, Cote's, three game coach firing's, emergency tryouts (remember those?), unfair and uncalled for media rumors, player disrespect (Gagne, Richards, Carter mainly), disappointing seasons, never addressing team needs (never keeping a true-blue starter, seeming like we always need a number one D, always drafting and being way too deep at C), lack of direction, seeing players excel once they leave Philly and usually because we forced them out unfairly (Sharp, Richards, Carter, Bobrovsky are all shining examples), or just flat-out getting screwed over by injuries or cruel fate (by cruel fate my mind automatically defaults to losing Patrick Kane to the draft lottery then having him clinch the SC against us years later while we get...JVR). Just gets tiring and predictable to a certain extent.

I didn't even fit Pronger's hilarious 35+ contract misunderstanding in there.

I think a lot of that is hindsight bias. With having never won it recently there's always mistakes to look at that looked correctable, but if you go back there were a good portion of us supporting these so-called obvious mistakes. Sometimes other options were unavailable or seem more appealing after the fact.

Many people thought Lavi deserved another year after a lockout-shortened season, and some of the same people now think that was a mistake. It's hard to see what will and what won't pan out, I wouldn't get down on the organization as a whole just yet. We're still a team that needs players and chemistry to develop; we're still well off our prime.

With trading Richards and Carter we opted for a rebuild, and with so many guys still developing, we'll probably have to wait til Morin and Hagg can come in and influence games before we're real contenders. At the tail end of Streit and Vinny's contracts we might start to get there. Maybe in 3-4 years we get another Lavi-style motivational coach after Chief runs his course and we can start making legitimate runs for the cup.

These things are cyclical and right now we still have an awesome young core, don't let their recent uninspired play make you doubt that. We've seen what they can do. We're still a few pieces away but have guys that may step up into those roles. Mason looks good (albeit small sample) and fits in perfectly with the rest of the core, for instance.

It's still October and I like the changes we're seeing since Chief took over. Now if they would just get the special teams back to where they were..

 

[FlyerSithLord]

With trading Richards and Carter we opted for a rebuild, and with so many guys still developing, we'll probably have to wait til Morin and Hagg can come in and influence games before we're real contenders. At the tail end of Streit and Vinny's contracts we might start to get there.

I disagree. They traded Richards and Carter to make room for Bryzgalov. There's no doubt in my mind they felt they would contend for a cup that season.

 

[blinds]

I disagree. They traded Richards and Carter to make room for Bryzgalov. There's no doubt in my mind they felt they would contend for a cup that season.

Err yeah that's true. I should have said with Pronger going down after it kind of forced us to take a rebuild approach. Either way, I think that's where we are realistically now.

 

[FlyerSithLord]

Err yeah that's true. I should have said with Pronger going down after it kind of forced us to take a rebuild approach. Either way, I think that's where we are realistically now.

They're in a weird state of limbo lol. They have some young guys to build around, but also have some really crappy contracts.

 

[PhillyFlying]

they played better tonight but they definitely didn't deserve the win. even if you take back emery's blunders they only scored 2 goals, 1 off a flukier bounce than they got on friday. simmer in particular had several good looks tonight and shot it straight into howard. b schenn and read both had some jump but they both miss the net more often than not it seems. bottom line is this team needs to start scoring goals and FAST. once they all break their respective **** slumps who knows how good they'll be?

 

[BillDineen]

Raffl and McGinn >> Hartnell. 5v5 play was more encouraging. I almost smashed my computer when Timonen screwed up that pass to G. Gus >> Meszaros as well.

 

[Qyburn]

I love everybody.

 

[Fragmuffin]

They are definitely improving more every game. This was their best game yet, regardless of the score. Emery let in a couple of softies and the penalties need to come down, but their even strength play was the best it's been this season and they were in this game the whole way.

Gus, Read, McGinn, and Raffl all played really well I thought. If Vinny comes back and Hartnell's still out, I'd like to see something like this:

Read - Giroux - Lacavalier
Simmonds - Schenn - Voracek
McGinn - Couturier - Raffl
Rinaldo - Hall - Talbot

and when Hartnell comes back I would really like to see things go down like this

hartnell lecavallier giroux (switch G and Vinny if needed, Hartnel stays here so he can start producing again, I just couldn't bare another bad contract on this team so lets try to avoid turning Hartsy into a 3rd line scrapper)
voracek schenn simmonds (I just like this one a whooole lot)
raffl couturier read (a great two way line with speed and enough talent to wake up Couturiers offensive potential)
mcginn hall talbott (an effective 4th line with more brains in ther heads than all the other plugs we had since powe, betts and laperiere)

And voila, we got ourselves 4 lines that can do damage once again.
I was pretty high on McGinn in the preseason and even if this is just one game i feel that he wont let me down. As for Raffl, I've been watching his game for the past 4 years in the EBEL and WorldCups and his game last night does not come as a surprise to me.

 

[Giroux tha Damaja]

and when Hartnell comes back I would really like to see things go down like this

hartnell lecavallier giroux (switch G and Vinny if needed, Hartnel stays here so he can start producing again, I just couldn't bare another bad contract on this team so lets try to avoid turning Hartsy into a 3rd line scrapper)
voracek schenn simmonds (I just like this one a whooole lot)
raffl couturier read (a great two way line with speed and enough talent to wake up Couturiers offensive potential)
mcginn hall talbott (an effective 4th line with more brains in ther heads than all the other plugs we had since powe, betts and laperiere)

And voila, we got ourselves 4 lines that can do damage once again.
I was pretty high on McGinn in the preseason and even if this is just one game i feel that he wont let me down. As for Raffl, I've been watching his game for the past 4 years in the EBEL and WorldCups and his game last night does not come as a surprise to me.

I like your lines. I would like to see this done.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

I only saw the third period, but I was not disappointed in what I saw in Gus. This team really needs to get something going. If they are still well below .500 at the end of October, I think a move will be made.

 

[1865]

That's both encouraging and disheartening. Best game of the season, strongest 60 minute game and we concede 5 and still lose.

It just seems like we're going to lose whatever happens.