Player Discussion Sam Reinhart - Is he the real deal?

[Panthaz89]

Reinhart's side will be making the argument that supports their request.

Given the big contract the Sabres just gave to a winger that Reinhart will out-produce from a points POV last year and this year, I would expect that comparison would come up when it's time to talk contract.

This is silly Skinner scored 40 goals Sam is not going to hit 40 and probably not even 30...goals are a lot more valuable than assists especially come contract time.

 

[Kublakhan]

7or 8X6 ??

 

[Old Navy Goat]

This is silly Skinner scored 40 goals Sam is not going to hit 40 and probably not even 30...goals are a lot more valuable than assists especially come contract time.

Also, you're talking UFA contract compared to RFA. Sabres will most likely use the Nylander contract as a comparable.

 

[sabrebuild]

Also, you're talking UFA contract compared to RFA. Sabres will most likely use the Nylander contract as a comparable.

The problem with Nylander contract is the inflation of two years and the ufa years that Reinhart will get on a long term deal is a few more than Alex.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

The problem with Nylander contract is the inflation of two years and the ufa years that Reinhart will get on a long term deal is a few more than Alex.

They'll have to adjust a bit as the latest rfa signings of note aren't really comparable ex Conner, Laine, Marner. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out

 

[explore]

7or 8X6 ??

I think he's earned a William Nylander contract, at most. I think a long-term contract around $6-$7 million a year is fair. Reinhart at $8 million a year makes me imagine Dahlin's agent demanding and getting a McDavid contract after his entry-level contract ends.

 

[joshjull]

I think he's earned a William Nylander contract, at most. I think a long-term contract around $6-$7 million a year is fair. Reinhart at $8 million a year makes me imagine Dahlin's agent demanding and getting a McDavid contract after his entry-level contract ends.

There is no way Dahlin gets near McDavid money no matter what Sam gets.

Karlsson and Doughty are the two highest cap hit dmen at 11.5 and 11mil per respectively. Those are all UFA years. Dahlin isn’t likely to get that much after his ELC expires, let alone McDavid money.

 

[BananaSquad]

The problem with Nylander contract is the inflation of two years and the ufa years that Reinhart will get on a long term deal is a few more than Alex.

That’s great, he’s not even as good as Nylander, so go sit out Sam.

 

[BananaSquad]

They'll have to adjust a bit as the latest rfa signings of note aren't really comparable ex Conner, Laine, Marner. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out

Shaking out at 8m or more a year is a disaster for this franchise.

 

[BananaSquad]

Like I feel like some of you go back and watch Kootenay Ice highlights and go ya 8m+ a year easy. Hes not that guy, he was drafted to be that guy, but he’s not. Honestly he’s a bit of bust (where we was picked and expected to be) and had become a fringe first line winger. Good player, not 8m + year good.

 

[Chainshot]

Like I feel like some of you go back and watch Kootenay Ice highlights and go ya 8m+ a year easy. Hes not that guy, he was drafted to be that guy, but he’s not. Honestly he’s a bit of bust (where we was picked and expected to be) and had become a fringe first line winger. Good player, not 8m + year good.

How is a 60-point player a bust again?

 

[Jim Bob]

This is silly Skinner scored 40 goals Sam is not going to hit 40 and probably not even 30...goals are a lot more valuable than assists especially come contract time.

If you were Reinhart's agent, wouldn't you put the argument out there that makes the best case possible for the best contract possible for your client?

 

[Jim Bob]

There is no way Dahlin gets near McDavid money no matter what Sam gets.

Karlsson and Doughty are the two highest cap hit dmen at 11.5 and 11mil per respectively. Those are all UFA years. Dahlin isn’t likely to get that much after his ELC expires, let alone McDavid money.

Barring Dahlin waiting until after next season to talk extension and him going Norris Trophy finalist crazy next season, I would agree that it is unlikely that Dahlin's second contract blows past Eichel's $10M per.

If Dahlin does win the Norris next year, he might try and set a new bar for a second contract for a D...

 

[Zip15]

I think he's earned a William Nylander contract, at most.

The Reinhart camp would agree. They'd say we will take the Nylander numbers through Sam's first two UFA years - which is when Nylander's deal ends - but now lets talk about Years 5-8 on a deal for Sam, which will be more expensive.

I think a long-term contract around $6-$7 million a year is fair. Reinhart at $8 million a year makes me imagine Dahlin's agent demanding and getting a McDavid contract after his entry-level contract ends.

He's not taking a long-term deal (i.e., 6-8 years) that starts with the number 6. And if the Sabres lowball him, he will take them to arbitration and that will likely mark the beginning of the end for Reinhart in Buffalo.

 

[Chainshot]

Barring Dahlin waiting until after next season to talk extension and him going Norris Trophy finalist crazy next season, I would agree that it is unlikely that Dahlin's second contract blows past Eichel's $10M per.

If Dahlin does win the Norris next year, he might try and set a new bar for a second contract for a D...

Watch them bridge him.

 

[kirby11]

The Reinhart camp would agree. They'd say we will take the Nylander numbers through Sam's first two UFA years - which is when Nylander's deal ends - but now lets talk about Years 5-8 on a deal for Sam, which will be more expensive.



He's not taking a long-term deal (i.e., 6-8 years) that starts with the number 6. And if the Sabres lowball him, he will take them to arbitration and that will likely mark the beginning of the end for Reinhart in Buffalo.

The most frustrating part of this is the Sabres probably could have gotten Sam locked up long term at or around $6M and would finally have a cap friendly deal in place for a key guy, but Botts, in his infinite wisdom, decided to bridge him on his previous deal.

 

[Duddy]

The most frustrating part of this is the Sabres probably could have gotten Sam locked up long term at or around $6M and would finally have a cap friendly deal in place for a key guy, but Botts, in his infinite wisdom, decided to bridge him on his previous deal.

Yeah, but he is a bust, haven't you heard?? Botts is just the smrtst

 

[sabrebuild]

The most frustrating part of this is the Sabres probably could have gotten Sam locked up long term at or around $6M and would finally have a cap friendly deal in place for a key guy, but Botts, in his infinite wisdom, decided to bridge him on his previous deal.

Who knows if thisvis remotely accurate, but Jeremy White had a frequently shown tweet that said Reinhart's camp was looking for 5.5 or so.

Could be bs, but it makes sense as a number considering what Nylander demanded with better counting stats and by all accounts outrageous demands.

I can't imagine Reinhart's agent asking for much over 6 longterm at that point.

Who knows.

 

[Zman5778]

Watch them bridge him.

Given Botts' history with Sam.....I'm fully expecting a Dahlin bridge and then we get absolutely bent over after that.

Kinda like what's gonna happen with Sam, if we don't trade him first.


At least I never had this worry with Eichel -- Botts was never going to bridge Eichel. He was always an 8 year deal in the making. I'd like to have that confidence again.

 

[Bendium]

Go to this link and just look at the names, ages, click on people and their stats. See where you think Sam fits on this list.

NHL Rankings

Nylander isn't a bad comparable stats wise, but as some have pointed out you have to take into account RFA vs UFA years you are buying. I was looking at Voracek's stats, career stat progression and age at signing and see some match. It was all UFA years, but also 3 years ago. He got an 8yr x 8.25 contract. Looking down the rest of the list I think anyone hoping for anything starting with a 6 is not playing in the real NHL salary world. Sam's progression and stats put him into the 7.5 to 8.5 range. Offer him 8 yr x 7.5 and sign him for anywhere in the 8.0 to 8.25 range. If you get an 8X8 you should be happy and call it a win.

 

[slip]

Who knows if thisvis remotely accurate, but Jeremy White had a frequently shown tweet that said Reinhart's camp was looking for 5.5 or so.

Could be bs, but it makes sense as a number considering what Nylander demanded with better counting stats and by all accounts outrageous demands.

I can't imagine Reinhart's agent asking for much over 6 longterm at that point.

Who knows.

If Botts balked at that deal he’s an even greater fool than we suspect, and we already suspect he’s hands down the worst GM in Sabres history.

 

[Zman5778]

If Botts balked at that deal he’s an even greater fool than we suspect, and we already suspect he’s hands down the worst GM in Sabres history.

I dunno........Scotty Bowman was pretty darned awful as GM here. Good coach. Very poor GM........though his issues were very different than Botts' issues.

 

[sabrebuild]

If Botts balked at that deal he’s an even greater fool than we suspect, and we already suspect he’s hands down the worst GM in Sabres history.

Oh I don't know about worst in team history. But certainly not ready to have steered the team when he got here.

Who knows what really happened, but I play the most likely options from either side. If you want to defend botts, you say Reinhart wanted to bet on himself. If you want good players on low caps for team success, you think Botts didn't trust Reinhart with a longterm deal.

The bridge deal is usually only a wise decision when a good team needs to create time for cap space. So a bridge could not have been to create space to keep the contending going.

And we know they agreed to 3.5 or so. So even on the bridge, he took a decent size number, a number high enough that there were not huge savings over the course of the bridge anyway.

Which leads me to believe that Botts really thought it was a good idea for Reinhart to prove himself, after three years, only 4 after being drafted and with no season under .5 ppg, two 20+ goal seasons and literally no one on the team to supplant his role on the team.

As I said before, there was basically no way short of injury for Reinhart to not improve his counting stats when they made this deal. He was gonna play the whole year with Eichel, he had always shown steady improvement and was coming off a 40 game stretch of ppg play.

The O'Reilly trade was dumb, the mitts and tage stuff was dumb, Housley for year two was dumb, but for my money the bridge deal for Reinhart is unimpeachably stupid. I'm not talking about the wing nuts who can't get over their hate for other posters or belief that they were entitled to the best possible outcome of a 2 overall pick.

If you rationally work thru every likely outcome, the position of the team, the role of the player and the player's history and decide, nope I can't give this player 6x7 or around that, the only conclusion I can make is you are unable to do this job.

 

[BuffaloGooner]

If Botts balked at that deal he’s an even greater fool than we suspect, and we already suspect he’s hands down the worst GM in Sabres history.

Whites Secret Sources is downplayed or respected based on whatever narrative he wants to go after.

 

[SwedishFire]

Reinhart will be a player that one year has that 40 goals, some have thought. But he will never be the player the franchise drafted him to be. He is the great complimentary player, but has some have said. He will never drive his own line. Why it is like this, I dont know. To many eat the words of the Jumbo Dumbo Craig Button, the superintelligent Einstein hockeyplayer, who beat you with his mind. Well, that was maybe cause what he just only had, that was elite. Skating and shooting is not.