Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer | The Hunt for 3C | Stop trying to give Sheary or Maatta away

[SEALBound]

If you don't understand the uniqueness of Hornqvist's game by now then no amount of explanation is going to help you.

We go through this every off season though. People seem to forgot Horny's contributions to the team as quickly as anyone when in reality, it's his doings in the playoffs that I tend to remember the most.

Off season always seems to skew reality for several posters here. Last off season after a horrific regular and post-season, people here were arguing that Kunitz wasn't nearly as bad as everyone said and people argued vigorously that he was absolutely a top 6 wing with us. Just as baffling. People also tried to trade Horny almost immediately after the 2016 cup as well.

The Matt hunwick signing is what has me at a loss. He sucks and takes us from Cap flexibility to cap constriction. And he was signed for three years.

The dude blows. smh

No he doesn't. He's a very similar player to Cole. I watched him in the RS and PO against Washington and was impressed with his body of work. That doesn't do anything to constrict us. All things considered, we are very flexible with the cap. We have no bad or unmovable contracts and we have a stellar goalie, a deadly blueline now with everyone healthy, wing depth up the wazzoo, young guys coming in, and the two best centers in the world...adding Hunwick did nothing to change that.

I really don't see Hornqvist getting that type of contract. If he demands it, then I obviously let him go.

Me either. $4.5-4.75 depending on term is what a guy like him should make. If someone wants to throw a 6x6 at him, that's the other GMs fault.

 

[Dying Alive]

Any Staal or just Jorden? I mean if its any Staal Ranger fans are not going to be happy

Somebody brought up Eric and that didn't go over too well with Wild fans either, so it seems to be any Staal except for Marc.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Everyone keeps mentioning Staal and Bozak(talking about the media types) and i think they're way off base in terms of JR's list.
Affordable and with term are the most likely targets, imo.

Think Sheahan(will be RFA), Helm, Berglund, Sobotka, Bjugstad(maybe), etc. and less Duchene, Staal, Bozak, etc.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Ron Hainsey also pushed 20+ minutes in the playoffs. Just because you're playing the minutes doesn't mean you should be. I'd also argue Toronto didn't play nearly as well as some people like to make them seem. Look at what our hobbled squad did to the Caps the first couple games of our series.

Yeah I was surprised how many people liked the Hunwick signing, at least for that money, so maybe I'm wrong about it being a gross overpayment. That being said I agree with you. He played a lot because the Leafs D was lackluster and had an injury or two. I highly doubt they were matching him up with the Caps' top guns because they wanted to.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Somebody brought up Eric and that didn't go over too well with Wild fans either, so it seems to be any Staal except for Marc.

Someone mention the forgotten Staal.

 

[Dying Alive]

Everyone keeps mentioning Staal and Bozak(talking about the media types) and i think they're way off base in terms of JR's list.
Affordable and with term are the most likely targets.

The biggest thing that I took from Mackey's article yesterday is that Rutherford is waiting for his targets to become available from teams that are bumping up against the cap. Granted everything in the media needs to be taken with a grain of salt but that would lead me to believe it's nobody who is currently rumored to be on the market (Duchene, etc.). I really think it's going to be somebody none of us expect.

 

[billybudd]

A.) we dont need a six million dollar 3 rd line center
B.) Carolina doesnt have a glut of Centers
C.) unless Carolina wanted to move him it would take a huge overpayment to get Staal at a price that makes sense vs the cap.

Hey id love mcdavid as the third line center, but lets live in reality... We aren't likely getting a borderline top line center for our third line

A is disputable, B is beside the point and C is false.

If Jordan Staal were to be moved, it would be for financial reasons having nothing to do with what Carolina has on its depth chart. Needing Justin Faulk (which they do) hasn't stopped the Canes from shopping him. In that eventuality, Staal's full NMC destroys his trade value.

As far as his salary, I don't really understand this objection.

Less than a month ago half the board was clamoring for us to spend more money than Staal makes on wings we didn't need who aren't as good as Jordan Staal. We're also roughly one year removed from more than half of us wanting to give $5 million a year to Mikkel Boedker--a poor defensive player with near-league-worst analytics who went on to score 10 goals last season.

You can't do stuff like this and then turn around and say Staal--a dominant defensive player who produces quite a lot 5 on 5 and, as Mpp9 said, wins a ton of faceoffs--is a bad allocation of resources.

 

[madinsomniac]

A is disputable, B is beside the point and C is false.

If Jordan Staal were to be moved, it would be for financial reasons having nothing to do with what Carolina has on its depth chart. Needing Justin Faulk (which they do) hasn't stopped the Canes from shopping him. In that eventuality, Staal's full NMC destroys his trade value.

As far as his salary, I don't really understand this objection.

Less than a month ago half the board was clamoring for us to spend more money than Staal makes on wings we didn't need who aren't as good as Jordan Staal. We're also roughly one year removed from more than half of us wanting to give $5 million a year to Mikkel Boedker--a poor defensive player with near-league-worst analytics who went on to score 10 goals last season.

You can't do stuff like this and then turn around and say Staal--a dominant defensive player who produces quite a lot 5 on 5 and, as Mpp9 said, wins a ton of faceoffs--is a bad allocation of resources.

I dont feel we need 6 million long term tied up in a 3rd line center when we will have to pay all of our young guys within the length of the contract.

Nobody was talking about bonino before he came here... people wanted to trade Jake and sheary for peanuts... whos to say a deal for a guy off the radar or just letting a young center try isn't the answer...

We are way to obsessed with proven brand names here for roles that aren't essential... i mean at discount for low assets, ive already said Staal is a fit... but not for some huge package and the loss of all cap flexibility for years...

 

[Peat]

I don't mind having a premium top of the range 6m 3C but he does have to be a guy we can move if required. Anyone with a full NTC is therefore a bit of a risk.

All of those examples are guys chasing UFA deals with teams that were moving on.

If Horny wants to maximize his contract with a playoff team, he can, but if he wants to continue to compete for Cups and still earn a lot of money (as I said yesterday, his career earnings through this contract is over 31MM), he will stay for 5ish x 5

Oshie wasn't. Oshie was taking that money to stay right where he was.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't mind having a premium top of the range 6m 3C but he does have to be a guy we can move if required. Anyone with a full NTC is therefore a bit of a risk.



Oshie wasn't. Oshie was taking that money to stay right where he was.

Well Washington did a lot of weird **** and Oshie's also a better player.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Yeah I was surprised how many people liked the Hunwick signing, at least for that money, so maybe I'm wrong about it being a gross overpayment. That being said I agree with you. He played a lot because the Leafs D was lackluster and had an injury or two. I highly doubt they were matching him up with the Caps' top guns because they wanted to.

He's kinda of been an under the radar analytics guy for the past couple years. Nothing special but things like Hero charts compare a tad favorably to Ian Cole for example.

 

[Riptide]

Maatta for Kadri is actually pretty close in terms of value, but I don't see how having Kadri as 3C, as good as he would be, is more valuable for the Pens than Maatta and his cost certainty for the rest of the cup window. Especially given how things are tracking with Dumo. He may get two one year deals and then be traded or walk. Or he might get signed, but it's not certain at this point.

Because you're still getting that cost certainty for your #3C. That and I think Maatta could be replaced easier then someone like Kadri could be. Mind you, it's also why Toronto would never make that trade.

 

[Peat]

Well Washington did a lot of weird **** and Oshie's also a better player.

Ain't that the truth

 

[SEALBound]

Well Washington did a lot of weird **** and Oshie's also a better player.

Makes me smile knowing how much Orpik put a wrench into their plans.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Makes me smile knowing how much Orpik put a wrench into their plans.

And after all the defensemen they've lost, Orpik is in their top four once again.

The gift that just keeps on giving.

 

[Shady Machine]

Makes me smile knowing how much Orpik put a wrench into their plans.

Me too!

 

[Riptide]

Cap-wise acquiring Staal wouldn't work unless Carolina holds onto at least $2 million of his cap hit for the remainder of the contract. The Penguins just don't need a $6 million 3rd line center.

Actually it would - we would just have 2m to replace Maatta.

 

[Freeptop]

Makes me smile knowing how much Orpik put a wrench into their plans.

My theory is that Orpik is clearly still a Penguin - after all, he's still hurting the Capitals!

 

[Riptide]

No he doesn't. He's a very similar player to Cole. I watched him in the RS and PO against Washington and was impressed with his body of work. That doesn't do anything to constrict us. All things considered, we are very flexible with the cap. We have no bad or unmovable contracts and we have a stellar goalie, a deadly blueline now with everyone healthy, wing depth up the wazzoo, young guys coming in, and the two best centers in the world...adding Hunwick did nothing to change that.

That's the same description I've been using to describe him since before we signed him.

 

[mrwirez]

GMJR Tuesday Post Gazette/Mackey

Jim Rutherford has a list.

The Penguins general manager does not, however, have a third-line center.

At least the type he acquired on the trade market, the potentially splashy kind that he theoretically has the money to add before the start of the 2017-18 season.

Go figure, the GM of the past two Stanley Cup winning teams isn’t terribly worried about any of this.

“It’s a patient process,†Rutherford said on Tuesday afternoon. “You don’t just jump at the first person.

“There’s some options out there right now, but we’ve put together a list of guys that we feel fit what we’re trying to do. I’m trying to be patient until one of those guys actually becomes available.â€

Much of that involves teams that are tight against the salary cap and may need to make a move to clear space.

Although Rutherford never talks about another team’s players, Toronto and center Tyler Bozak would seem to track with that ideology.

The Maple Leafs are currently $3.9 million over the salary cap and have a few tough decisions looming.

Asked about the length of said list, Rutherford invoked his trademark, sarcastic humor.

“There are hundreds of names on there,†Rutherford said.



Our GM is on it guys!

 

[Nakawick]

Somebody brought up Eric and that didn't go over too well with Wild fans either, so it seems to be any Staal except for Marc.

I think I have seen maybe 3 or 4 trades that the fan bases of both teams have agreed on out of the thousands of proposals on the trade board. Trades would be rarer than Haleys comet if left up to HF boards.

 

[Riptide]

Well Washington did a lot of weird **** and Oshie's also a better player.

Better? How sure are you about that?

Their last 3 years (paced out to 82 games):
Oshie: 22g/63, 26/51pts, 40g/68pts
Hornqvist: 32g/65pts, 22/51pts, 25g/52pts

The biggest difference is last year... when Oshie instead of shooting his typical 10-14%, shot 23.1%. If he'd shot the 14% he shot the year before, he would have scored 20 goals and been on pace for 24g/52pts.

Oshie is without a doubt a more skilled player. But I would be pretty hesitant to call him a better player.

 

[Mordax]

Just Say No to Jordan Staal (TM)

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

No it really isn't, and it's very much your opinion, which you clearly gave twice now.

I see what you mean about the cap space, I'd just rather go in with a better defense and find a less thrilling 3C. If we go far again I see us playing much more offensively potent teams than Ottawa and Nashville. Credit where it's due, but that's about as offensively inept as you can possibly get for a 3rd round/4th round gauntlet. Keeping the D intact as it is and eyeing up a more traditional 3C by way of a lesser trade is what I'd do.

I like how you tried to justify that I somehow in that post gave a high opinion on Ruh?!? Give me a break, I stated that Letang, Hunwick, Ruh is better than Maatta, Hainsey, Daley and that is a fact. I bet the vast majority would take those 3 on the team over the other. If you would like to poll that I think you would see I am right. Like I said I don't overvalue Ruh, I think he is a good 7 who can play in the top 6 for extended periods of time and do a good job. Bottom line is that I said I would rather have Kadri over Maatta to start the season because I felt the whole at 3C is bigger than the D without Maatta. I think Hunwick-Ruh could hold down the 3rd pairing just fine but our options at 3C are not near acceptable. I also pointed out that we all know JR would get another defenseman if he traded Maatta because he likes depth at all positions so we would get a decent vet which he could get from Vegas for a pick. So I really don't appreciate you trying to make up something I never said. Highlighting Ruh with those other defenseman does not help your fake news point. Just admit you made assumptions about my post.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't like the Staal idea for 3 big reasons. First, it feels like you're just recycling guys at that point, I really think the Penguins should be looking for new and young blood instead of just bringing back retreads. Second, I don't think Staal is the right center to play with Kessel, because that just encourages Kessel to be more of a playmaker (since Staal sure won't be getting him the puck). Third, his salary and what he'd cost to acquire will probably just be overwhelming. You're not getting Staal back for less than what Carolina paid to get him, I'm really confident in saying that. You're looking at something like Sheary, Sprong and a 1st to bring him in, because Carolina isn't going to trade him for just Sheary and a 2nd.