Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer | The grind it out phase | Moar 3C Talk!

[Speaking Moistly]

Ahh, good call.



Despres could have been something.

Maatta doesn't count in my book because that was high end talent that was able to step in right away.

All the others didn't really amount to much.

Yeah, well, it's still the best from under him and they are/were all NHL players in some capacity. My big issue is that I think it was a case of forcing players to find success in spite of him. He didn't help players or try to develop them, he pretty much spent time trying to do the opposite.

How would you guys feel about Maatta for Bozak and Kapanen?

Seems like a deal that could work out for both sides.

I really don't want someone a year away from free agency so this process can start all over again and I'm of the opinion that they don't have the D depth to trade a D for a forward.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Also, I disagree with Ryan Wilson about a lot of things and believe he relies far too much on advanced stats, but he makes a compelling argument for a lower body injury being a major factor in Sheary's struggles down the stretch last year:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=86631&blogger_id=177

In a vacuum, perhaps. But I believe we need a Top 4 dman more than a 3C. We are loaded at wing so Kapanen does little for me.

If we had something in place for another dman, I would consider it though but I would want to see what the plan on defense was first.

Hagelin for Bozak helps up out much more.

It would help us, but I can't imagine why Toronto would want to do it.

 

[Peat]

Also, I disagree with Ryan Wilson about a lot of things and believe he relies far too much on advanced stats, but he makes a compelling argument for a lower body injury being a major factor in Sheary's struggles down the stretch last year:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=86631&blogger_id=177

It's an interesting point.

Although if Sheary's prone to LBIs and turning into dog poo when he gets them - something he's possibly done both seasons - does that change our valuation?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's an interesting point.

Although if Sheary's prone to LBIs and turning into dog poo when he gets them - something he's possibly done both seasons - does that change our valuation?

That's a good point too. But it's nice to be able to identify why it happened, at the very least.

 

[Brandinho]

It's an interesting point.

Although if Sheary's prone to LBIs and turning into dog poo when he gets them - something he's possibly done both seasons - does that change our valuation?

If he were prone to LBIs, then that'd definitely change our valuation. However, it's far too early to say if that's the case or not.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Also, I disagree with Ryan Wilson about a lot of things and believe he relies far too much on advanced stats, but he makes a compelling argument for a lower body injury being a major factor in Sheary's struggles down the stretch last year:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=86631&blogger_id=177



It would help us, but I can't imagine why Toronto would want to do it.

I usually assume injuries are involved with this team, tbh.

It's an interesting point.

Although if Sheary's prone to LBIs and turning into dog poo when he gets them - something he's possibly done both seasons - does that change our valuation?

I don't think you can say he's prone to them when one was a dirty ****ing play and the other.... what was it? If he can't stay healthy in general that needs to be part of how he's evaluated.

 

[Corvidae]

There are no shortage of clips of Maatta getting burned, and he's an established top 4 defenseman making 4 mil per. And one of those times was by Bobby Ryan, who's every bit as slow as Hartnell.

See, that's the problem with anecdotal evidence.



When Dumoulin was the same age Pouliot is going to be this upcoming season, the Pens used 12 defensemen - including a broken-down Scuderi - and he only got 8 games of NHL action.

Guess we should have cut bait with that guy when the writing was on the wall.

1) People are taking my Hartnell clip comments too seriously.

2) RE: Dumoulin - terrible coaching staff when he was 23 where as now I actually have some trust in talent evaluation. But yeah, I agree he came on strong right after that time. Not a "late bloomer" per say but he did improve a lot after his first pro year. The could happen with DP, so I'm not completely given up on him, but like... 90%.

3) I wouldn't call them turds, but aside from Taylor and Bengtsson, I don't see any NHL potential aside from "crap we have injuries but I don't want to have a defenseman with actual potential playing 10 minutes a night or riding the bench, give me a journeyman." Think Steve Olesky. I would put Butcher over Prow in terms of original potential, but Bengtsson above Butcher.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

1) People are taking my Hartnell clip comments too seriously.

2) RE: Dumoulin - terrible coaching staff when he was 23 where as now I actually have some trust in talent evaluation. But yeah, I agree he came on strong right after that time. Not a "late bloomer" per say but he did improve a lot after his first pro year. The could happen with DP, so I'm not completely given up on him, but like... 90%.

It's all good. I just hate when Pouliot's treated like a total write-off.

He's a lot less of a sure thing right now, especially with the waiver situation, but he was a top 10 pick for a reason and there are plenty of successful defensemen who took longer to make the show full time than he has.

3) I wouldn't call them turds, but aside from Taylor and Bengtsson, I don't see any NHL potential aside from "crap we have injuries but I don't want to have a defenseman with actual potential playing 10 minutes a night or riding the bench, give me a journeyman." Think Steve Olesky. I would put Butcher over Prow in terms of original potential, but Bengtsson above Butcher.

I haven't seen enough of any of those guys other than Pouliot to rank 'em, but the defense pool does look pretty barren. That said, most people thought that about our forwards a few years back and figured our defense pool was fantastic. There's probably a few surprises in store.

 

[Peat]

3) I wouldn't call them turds, but aside from Taylor and Bengtsson, I don't see any NHL potential aside from "crap we have injuries but I don't want to have a defenseman with actual potential playing 10 minutes a night or riding the bench, give me a journeyman." Think Steve Olesky. I would put Butcher over Prow in terms of original potential, but Bengtsson above Butcher.

Prow is marginally bigger, by most accounts a better skater, and was more productive in his final college year.

If I'm missing something about Butcher that says he's NHL potential and Prow isn't, please let me know. But right now, based on everything I've read, I don't get why you rate him so highly

 

[bambamcam4ever]

What day is Sheary's hearing?

 

[Nakawick]

What day is Sheary's hearing?

Next Friday

 

[PensandCaps]

I don't get the Butcher hype. Most people seem to think he will be lucky to even be a #7, and that his skating is horrible. I'd rather have Pouliot, easily.

 

[mpp9]

Yea the guy is a project defensively and can't skate? That's quite the prospect there.

 

[Corvidae]

Yea the guy is a project defensively and can't skate? That's quite the prospect there.

I'm not sure where people are getting this about his skating. I've seen him play a few times and he looked pretty smooth. And by "a few" I mean once, but seriously, where is the source of this analysis?

 

[Brandinho]

Zero idea how reliable this site is, but it was the first result that popped up for "Will Butcher scouting report":

http://lastwordonhockey.com/2017/07/26/scouting-will-butcher-college-free-agent/

Skating

Butcher is quick skater. He has excellent speed in both directions. He also has very good acceleration. Butcher has very good agility and edge work. This allows him to cover a lot of ice. It also makes him tough to beat one-on-one. Butcher will need to add more core strength and improve his balance. This will help him to win battles in the corners and in front of the net.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Zero idea how reliable this site is, but it was the first result that popped up for "Will Butcher scouting report":

http://lastwordonhockey.com/2017/07/26/scouting-will-butcher-college-free-agent/

Skating

Butcher is quick skater. He has excellent speed in both directions. He also has very good acceleration. Butcher has very good agility and edge work. This allows him to cover a lot of ice. It also makes him tough to beat one-on-one. Butcher will need to add more core strength and improve his balance. This will help him to win battles in the corners and in front of the net.

At 5'10" and 200, sounds like he's got enough size not to get pushed around. If he can add some strength, sounds like a worthwhile project at WBS.

 

[Peat]

The Will Butcher thread in the Rumours forum has a wide range of opinion on his skating from below average to okay but not a plus.

Also given how many LastWordOnHockey articles are posted up here about the Pens that are full of factual inaccuracies and opinions none of us agree with, I'm inclined not to trust that scouting report.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Yeah, lastwordonhockey (from everything I've seen) are either puff pieces or just very poorly put together so I wouldn't put too much stock in what they are saying. Especially when it doesn't seem to coincide very well with most other people are saying.

 

[Jacob]

I don't care about his skating... A free prospect is a free prospect.

That said he'd have to be stupid to sign here. 8 D on one-way deals, 8 more on two-way deals. It's quite a logjam.

 

[Leopain]

Will Butcher watch

Hello guys!

I am a Pens fan since I am 5 years old, I live in Montreal. This is my first post here on the Pens page but I have been posting on the prospects page for a few months.

I noticed there was no Will Butcher thread on your page. What do you think of him? Do you think Rutherford should offer him a contract?

The guy got drafted by Colorado in the fifth round of 2013, the Avs have offered him a contract this year and he said he wanted to test free agency so he will be a 22 years old UFA. LHD, was the captain of Denver en route to the NCAA championship, won the Hobey Baker.

Not big, average skater, average defensively, good offensively. I think he could be a good depth signing if the injury bug strikes as hard as the past few years.

What do you guys think?

 

[Darth Vitale]

8x8m for Ryan J in Nashville.

I saw that earlier. I know he's a good player but damn.

 

[888 98 twins]

Will he watch what?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

This is one of the times I think we have a good shot with getting him. Last year with Bayreuther picking the Stars, he probably regrets that considering how deep they are with prospects and their depth, you choose poorly kiddo.

Butcher could join the Pens, automatically be the best D prospect we have. And with our injuries, he could realistically see some action.

 

[wheelz87]

Yea 8x8 seems a bit steep but whatever.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If he were prone to LBIs, then that'd definitely change our valuation. However, it's far too early to say if that's the case or not.

You're on a board that thinks Murray, a rookie for 2yrs, is now an injury prone goalie but people want to pump their breaks on Sheary, lol.