Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer | The grind it out phase | Moar 3C Talk!

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't think there will be a 3C trade until Sheary re-sign, and JR know exactly the free cap space remaining. And even then he might still want to wait for a definitely answer from Cullen.

I think the moment the Sheary signing happens, the time for Cullen to decide would be nearing. JR would then need to know what his decision is, of course then he'd be coming back as a 3C and not a 4C, which buys JR time to find one next off season.

 

[Gurglesons]

People wanting Desharnais is probably one of the weirdest player fascinations I have seen here in quite some time.

Nobody is losing sleep over Desharnais. All I've been saying is that a player on a one year, one million contract that has proven he is an NHLer with warts would be a great addition. Rolling into the season expecting Rowney and Reaves to completely support our 4th line is ridiculous. Obviously, bringing back Cullen completely changes that. Even with Cullen, having a player to put Rowney as our 13th/14th forward isn't bad. A player of Desharnais's caliber vs. Rowney gives us options in the regular season.

He's a ****** player with warts, but for one million you can play him as a 4C and if Malkin goes down, he has enough talent to put up some goals while Crosby and the 3rd line eat some minutes. Bringing in a McClement helps too, because it doesn't require us to base all of our defensive minutes on Crosby and Malkin. If you bring back Cullen, it helps ease his overall minutes.

Usage was a big time advantage in our cup win and I think that having the proper depth to be able to roll our top six and bottom six equal minutes is essential to the success we've had the past two years.

 

[clefty]

This 3C situation is quite vexing.

The desperate urgency we appeared to exhibit in adding a fourth line banger mirrored with our interminable patience at the comparatively vastly more important third line center is definitely a little weird.

 

[Giskard]

I think the moment the Sheary signing happens, the time for Cullen to decide would be nearing. JR would then need to know what his decision is, of course then he'd be coming back as a 3C and not a 4C, which buys JR time to find one next off season.

I'd like to start the season with Cullen as 3C, it will give the team a year to see where the various Blueger, ZAR or Johnson can fill in as a bottom-6 center.
I'm not sure if he has enough in the tank to increase is playing time as 3C, but maybe it would give him an extra desire to come back in a prominent role.

 

[Coach Travis]

I'd like to start the season with Cullen as 3C, it will give the team a year to see where the various Blueger, ZAR or Johnson can fill in as a bottom-6 center.
I'm not sure if he has enough in the tank to increase is playing time as 3C, but maybe it would give him an extra desire to come back in a prominent role.

This. It may turn out that we have the Bonino replacement in-house. If not, there will likely be sexier 3C options at the Trade Deadline.

 

[Coach Travis]

On another topic, what do we make of Scott Wilson at this point? This time last year I think a lot of us were slotting him in to steal Sheary's spot or at least compete for it...

2014-15:
Sheary (WBS): 58gp, 20g, 25a (.34 G/GP, 0.77 PTS/GP)
Wilson (WBS): 55gp, 19g, 22a (.35 G/GP, 0.75 PTS/GP)

2015-16:
Sheary (WBS): 30gp, 7g 29a (.23 G/GP, 1.20 PTS/GP)
Wilson (WBS): 34gp, 22g, 14a (.64 G/GP, 1.06 PTS/GP)
Sheary (PIT): 44gp, 7g, 3a (.16 G/GP, 0.23 PTS/GP)
Wilson (PIT): 24gp, 5g, 1a (.20 G/GP, 0.25 PTS/GP)

2016-17:
Sheary (PIT): 61gp, 23g, 30a (.38 G/GP, 0.87 PTS/GP)
Wilson (PIT): 78gp, 8g, 18a (.10 G/GP, 0.23 PTS/GP)


So, besides not playing with Sid, why hasn't Wilson kept pace with Sheary in the NHL? Can we expect some sort of breakout for him this season?

 

[rintinw]

On another topic, what do we make of Scott Wilson at this point? This time last year I think a lot of us were slotting him in to steal Sheary's spot or at least compete for it...

2014-15:
Sheary (WBS): 58gp, 20g, 25a (.34 G/GP, 0.77 PTS/GP)
Wilson (WBS): 55gp, 19g, 22a (.35 G/GP, 0.75 PTS/GP)

2015-16:
Sheary (WBS): 30gp, 7g 29a (.23 G/GP, 1.20 PTS/GP)
Wilson (WBS): 34gp, 22g, 14a (.64 G/GP, 1.06 PTS/GP)
Sheary (PIT): 44gp, 7g, 3a (.16 G/GP, 0.23 PTS/GP)
Wilson (PIT): 24gp, 5g, 1a (.20 G/GP, 0.25 PTS/GP)

2016-17:
Sheary (PIT): 61gp, 23g, 30a (.38 G/GP, 0.87 PTS/GP)
Wilson (PIT): 78gp, 8g, 18a (.10 G/GP, 0.33 PTS/GP)


So, besides not playing with Sid, why hasn't Wilson kept pace with Sheary in the NHL? Can we expect some sort of breakout for him this season?

I am not sure that playing with Sid (or Malkin for that matter) would help Wilson keep pace with Sheary (5v5 stats):
- w Crosby: 94.5 min, 3 pts, 1.90 PT60
- w Malkin: 91.3 min, 2 pts, 1.31 PT60
- otherwise: 630.5 min, 21 pts, 2.00 PT60

The difference between them (at least for now) is that one has displayed he can perform top line duties and the other one has not (in his somewhat limited time there).

Wilson has shown he can produce (and I mean produce a lot, ~2 PT60 is really good 5v5 production) when on 3rd and 4th lines and therefore he could be great 3rd/4th line winger. It remains to be seen if he can do that on scoring lines (but given what he has already shown there I'm sceptical).

 

[PensandCaps]

Wilson had chances with Crosby. Sheary is just better.

Wilson was better in the playoffs though.

 

[Asuna]

sign will butcher plz

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I am not sure that playing with Sid (or Malkin for that matter) would help Wilson keep pace with Sheary (5v5 stats):
- w Crosby: 94.5 min, 3 pts, 1.90 PT60
- w Malkin: 91.3 min, 2 pts, 1.31 PT60
- otherwise: 630.5 min, 21 pts, 2.00 PT60

The difference between them (at least for now) is that one has displayed he can perform top line duties and the other one has not (in his somewhat limited time there).

Wilson has shown he can produce (and I mean produce a lot, ~2 PT60 is really good 5v5 production) when on 3rd and 4th lines and therefore he could be great 3rd/4th line winger. It remains to be seen if he can do that on scoring lines (but given what he has already shown there I'm sceptical).

Wilson had some terrible luck last year, shot 6.3%. Sheary shot 14.9% with a 103.7 PDO. I would expect Sheary to fall back and Wilson to pick it up quite a bit. Which is yet another reason why I'd hate to give Sheary a long-term deal based on one incomplete season. Wilson should be able to get us 15 goals playing as a mid 6 tweener, and Sheary should be around 20, but I wouldn't be surprised if those goal totals were reversed.

As an aside, though Sheary was productive, 16 of his 26 assists (5v5) were of the secondary variety, leading the team. His point totals were clearly inflated playing with Sid, PH and Guentzel. Wilson had more primary assists than Sheary. I'm not saying Sheary isn't a productive player, but he's not as good as all the points/60 fanatics like to make him seem.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Threepeat! Gotta set the theme for the season.

Haha I like your thinking. Got me on board.

Just like Cullen is going to sign his third straight 1 year deal in August.

And just like a third goalie in 3 years is going to start the playoffs for us (hopefully finally Murray and not Niemi).

 

[Shady Machine]

The desperate urgency we appeared to exhibit in adding a fourth line banger mirrored with our interminable patience at the comparatively vastly more important third line center is definitely a little weird.

Yup. That's a lot of my issue with the situation. JR knew the holes in the lineup, yet went out of his way to overpay for the least important position in hockey (4th line winger), while being extremely patient on a much more important position. Obviously they felt they needed to get tougher or whatever, but spending assets to weaken the center position to fill that perceived need while spending 500K more on that winger position than we have in the past bothers me a bit. I guess we will see how it all shakes out.

 

[Shady Machine]

This. It may turn out that we have the Bonino replacement in-house. If not, there will likely be sexier 3C options at the Trade Deadline.

Honestly, what do you think the chances are that Blueger (or Johnson or ZAR - a winger) is a playoff caliber 3rd line center by next April?

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

I honestly think we have a great chance in signing Butcher. His agent specifically mentioned that he wants to choose a team that'll develop him properly so he can flourish to play in the NHL rather than be relied on to play regularly from the get-go. If you read Mackey's article, there are lots of quotes from his agent that lead you to believe that the Pens are a serious contender to sign the kid. We have nothing to lose especially given our lackluster prospect depth on the blueline.

 

[Penske]

The desperate urgency we appeared to exhibit in adding a fourth line banger mirrored with our interminable patience at the comparatively vastly more important third line center is definitely a little weird.

I think that was a more "right time, right place" situation. Sounded like we were picking Lauzon anyway who'd be available later. In that scenario they had to make a quick decision.

They were talking to other teams prior to our pick. I know the Ducks were one. Maybe that was to use the first in a bigger deal but fell through and they quickly turned to St Louis.

 

[Asuna]

I honestly think we have a great chance in signing Butcher. His agent specifically mentioned that he wants to choose a team that'll develop him properly so he can flourish to play in the NHL rather than be relied on to play regularly from the get-go. If you read Mackey's article, there are lots of quotes from his agent that lead you to believe that the Pens are a serious contender to sign the kid. We have nothing to lose especially given our lackluster prospect depth on the blueline.

yup. mackey's article made it sound pretty optimistic that he'd sign here.

so we'll see how it goes

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

yup. mackey's article made it sound pretty optimistic that he'd sign here.

so we'll see how it goes

That would be really nice to be able to sign 2 of the 3 finalists for the Hobey Baker as FAs. Butcher being a D would be especially sweet. Too bad the clown organization across state got the 3rd one.

 

[Coach Travis]

Honestly, what do you think the chances are that Blueger (or Johnson or ZAR - a winger) is a playoff caliber 3rd line center by next April?

Before the 2015-16 Season, I didn't predict the ascension of

• Matt Murray to an elite goalie
• Conor Sheary to a scoring forward
• Bryan Rust to a clutch goal scorer
• Tom Kuhnhackl to a solid NHLer

Before the 2016-17 Season, I didn't predict the ascension of

• Jake Guentzel to an elite goal scorer
• Justin Schultz to Letang's playoff replacement
• Scott Wilson to... Well, I actually expected more
• Carter Rowney to be a solid NHLer
• Josh Archibald to look like the 2nd coming of Darren Helm
• Chad Ruhwedel to look like a legit NHL player

Now those realizations come to various degrees but certainly, I'm pretty hopeful about Sprong, Aston-Reese, Johnson, Blueger, Simon, Bengtsson, Prow and Tiffels. But who knows, maybe Jarred Tinordi is our #6 D-Man in April. Maybe Greg McKegg is our #4 Centre.

But on the question of a 3C... Bonino had 4 goals (1 EN goal) these playoffs and 4 goals the year before. Now there's more to his game than that, of course, but in both cases he's lining up against 3rd tier competition so I don't think that Bonino's shoes are as big as people seem to make them out to be.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Even if we get Butcher I wouldn't expect much from him. His skating and defense are legitimate concerns in the pro game and it's not like the Hobey Baker winner list is filled with guys with exemplary NHL careers. Regardless of the fact he didn't win it, ZAR is multiple tiers ahead of Butcher as a prospect IMO.

He'd still be a nice free prospect that I wouldn't complain about one bit, mind you.

 

[ColePens]

Before the 2015-16 Season, I didn't predict the ascension of

• Matt Murray to an elite goalie
• Conor Sheary to a scoring forward
• Bryan Rust to a clutch goal scorer
• Tom Kuhnhackl to a solid NHLer

Before the 2016-17 Season, I didn't predict the ascension of

• Jake Guentzel to an elite goal scorer
• Justin Schultz to Letang's playoff replacement
• Scott Wilson to... Well, I actually expected more
• Carter Rowney to be a solid NHLer
• Josh Archibald to look like the 2nd coming of Darren Helm
• Chad Ruhwedel to look like a legit NHL player

Now those realizations come to various degrees but certainly, I'm pretty hopeful about Sprong, Aston-Reese, Johnson, Blueger, Simon, Bengtsson, Prow and Tiffels. But who knows, maybe Jarred Tinordi is our #6 D-Man in April. Maybe Greg McKegg is our #4 Centre.

But on the question of a 3C... Bonino had 4 goals (1 EN goal) these playoffs and 4 goals the year before. Now there's more to his game than that, of course, but in both cases he's lining up against 3rd tier competition so I don't think that Bonino's shoes are as big as people seem to make them out to be.

I think this is a very good post with small degrees of variance in agreement, but I 100% agree with the Bones comment. He sure as hell wasn't the Bonino from HBK. He was really good, but to think he's irreplaceable is nonsense. I think he's very replaceable. But finding that perfect fit as opposed to who has the fancy stats/name is a difficult task for JR.

Ultimately I thought Bones had an okay playoff. Solid shot blocking and good PK. He wasn't dynamic in any way offensively. He wasn't ultra clutch in any way. Same goes for Hags. I thought both guys were average for their entire season. Neither good nor bad. They did some good and neither were as dynamic as we thought they'd be. But ultimately like Travis said, I don't think Bones is really all that difficult to replace.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Maybe JR is simply teaching a life lesson to all of the young Penguin fans; Patience is a virtue.

 

[Pengwins]

maybe telling Cullen he will be a 3C is incentive for him to come back? Then we add another C later in the season? Not ideal but works if a good trade cannot be worked out

 

[Penske]

maybe telling Cullen he will be a 3C is incentive for him to come back? Then we add another C later in the season? Not ideal but works if a good trade cannot be worked out

I don't think that would be an incentive. Probably the opposite. At his age the 4th line role is the best for him and manageable. Anything more for extended periods of time is setting up for failure.

Personally I don't want Cullen even playing 82 games. Something around 60 would be better to peak during the playoffs.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

I don't think that would be an incentive. Probably the opposite. At his age the 4th line role is the best for him and manageable. Anything more for extended periods of time is setting up for failure.

Personally I don't want Cullen even playing 82 games. Something around 60 would be better to peak during the playoffs.

Yeah I really doubt Cullen playing more and harder minutes is incentive whatsoever and absolutely irrelevant at best in his decision. He isn't holding out for a better opportunity to put up #'s for his next big contract or anything. He is deciding if he wants to deal with the grind (on and off the ice) of playing at all, and making the grind even harder isn't exactly great motivation.

 

[Corvidae]

sign will butcher plz

I would looooove that.