Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer | The grind it out phase | Moar 3C Talk!

[SEALBound]

Look the pens:
A. Own their ahl affiliate, so they can dictate who gets what role
B. Play mostly the same system in the minors and NHL, so they don't need players to relearn schemes just nhl playing speed.
C. Actually play kids now instead of burying them behind a vet grunt then if they get a shot, benching them indefinitely for one mistake after sitting on the bench for 20 games...


Its called actually developing guys rather than hoping high end talent just instantly clicks

Honestly speaking, what players "developed" out of the Dan Bylsma era?

Sid, Malkin, Staal, Letang...all prospects that Patrick/Eddie/Therrien get the credit for. Who did Dan help? Gogo?

 

[Malkinstheman]

Honestly speaking, what players "developed" out of the Dan Bylsma era?

Sid, Malkin, Staal, Letang...all prospects that Patrick/Eddie/Therrien get the credit for. Who did Dan help? Gogo?

Nisky?

 

[Corvidae]

He's had his ups and downs but you can literally find a youtube clip of nearly every NHL player getting torched. When he came in last year and played with Lovejoy, I thought he was fantastic. He became the Pouliot we all thought he could be. Problem was, he was #7/8 come healthy playoff time. What he "needs" is an injury that gets him a good amount of play time.

- Yes, but how many clips of people getting torched by Scott Hartnell last year, twice in one game? Not Taylor Hall or Kucherov... Scott Hartnell... at age 34. He died that day.

- And oh my God, how many more injuries could he possibly need? They used 14 D last year laugh and traded for 40 year old Mark Streit instead of keeping him on the NHL roster. It's possible that they wanted him to gain more experience playing top minutes in the AHL, but they were depleted and going for a Cup. Present > Future in that situation and they thought Streit, who I thought ranged from mediocre to putrid, was better. So yes, it's possible, but to me it's more likely that Sullivan and/or JR don't think much of him.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Honestly speaking, what players "developed" out of the Dan Bylsma era?

Sid, Malkin, Staal, Letang...all prospects that Patrick/Eddie/Therrien get the credit for. Who did Dan help? Gogo?

I guess he'd get a lot of the credit for Despres who he seemingly hated but he was the HC for most of Despres' time here, Maatta who iirc he was waiting for a chance to send down had his first season under Bylsma, Bennett who he misused and who couldn't stay healthy, Bortuzzo and Vitale who got to play with Gladams. I don't think you'd say he helped any of them though.

 

[madinsomniac]

Honestly speaking, what players "developed" out of the Dan Bylsma era?

Sid, Malkin, Staal, Letang...all prospects that Patrick/Eddie/Therrien get the credit for. Who did Dan help? Gogo?

I mean he didn't do the last part

 

[davemess]

Not sure where you split the blame on the lack of kids coming through during those years between Blysma and Patrick/Shero for their drafting? Maybe the players just were not there to be developed?

Something that stuck out in the Burkle interview the other week might have had an effect as well. When he talked about the previous CEO (Ken Sawyer) and that at times he was too focused on keeping the team in profit rather than winning on the ice. During those years we were pretty much up their in spending on salaries so I took it from the article that at times we were being cheap in the behind the scenes areas (so not spending the money on having multiple assistants around the GM, not spending the extra money on additional scouts, not having quality development guys and roving coaches working though the organisations depth chart).

 

[Peat]

- Yes, but how many clips of people getting torched by Scott Hartnell last year, twice in one game? Not Taylor Hall or Kucherov... Scott Hartnell... at age 34. He died that day.

- And oh my God, how many more injuries could he possibly need? They used 14 D last year laugh and traded for 40 year old Mark Streit instead of keeping him on the NHL roster. It's possible that they wanted him to gain more experience playing top minutes in the AHL, but they were depleted and going for a Cup. Present > Future in that situation and they thought Streit, who I thought ranged from mediocre to putrid, was better. So yes, it's possible, but to me it's more likely that Sullivan and/or JR don't think much of him.

He needs the injury when he's in form. And not to have an injury get him at the same time, as happened in his first game last year.

*scrolls down* Okay, no matter how bad Pouliot's last season was, Butcher is a long shot to be the answer for bumping him down the depth chart. Is Butcher a better prospect out of college than Prow was? Not like Prow did great last season. You want Pouliot down the depth chart? Look at guys like Tinordi, Summers, Czuczman, Corrado and Trotman, guys who've actually played NHL. Hell - add those 5 to the 7 we've got on the big roster and there's your 12 right there before even considering Prow, Taylor and Bengtsson.

Either you think all the names I've put there are utter turd or you've been reading about a far better Will Butcher than I have. Undersized dmen with skating issues fresh out of college very rarely make number 8 on the depth chart on organisations with full AHL rosters. Hell, we've already got two undersized college dmen on the roster already. Taylor's numbers are very close to Butcher's. Prow's numbers were better and he played a game in the ECHL last season. Zink's numbers were pretty similar and I don't think we even gave him an NHL contract.

Don't get this one at all. If we get him sure, why not, free prospect. But the idea he could be number 8 on our depth chart?

 

[SEALBound]

Nisky?

Ahh, good call.

I guess he'd get a lot of the credit for Despres who he seemingly hated but he was the HC for most of Despres' time here, Maatta who iirc he was waiting for a chance to send down had his first season under Bylsma, Bennett who he misused and who couldn't stay healthy, Bortuzzo and Vitale who got to play with Gladams. I don't think you'd say he helped any of them though.

Despres could have been something.

Maatta doesn't count in my book because that was high end talent that was able to step in right away.

All the others didn't really amount to much.

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

If you had to choose between trading either Sheary or Hagelin to acquire a 3rd line center, who would you keep?

hands down, I'd rather keep Sheary.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

- Yes, but how many clips of people getting torched by Scott Hartnell last year, twice in one game? Not Taylor Hall or Kucherov... Scott Hartnell... at age 34. He died that day.

There are no shortage of clips of Maatta getting burned, and he's an established top 4 defenseman making 4 mil per. And one of those times was by Bobby Ryan, who's every bit as slow as Hartnell.

See, that's the problem with anecdotal evidence.

- And oh my God, how many more injuries could he possibly need? They used 14 D last year laugh and traded for 40 year old Mark Streit instead of keeping him on the NHL roster. It's possible that they wanted him to gain more experience playing top minutes in the AHL, but they were depleted and going for a Cup. Present > Future in that situation and they thought Streit, who I thought ranged from mediocre to putrid, was better. So yes, it's possible, but to me it's more likely that Sullivan and/or JR don't think much of him.

When Dumoulin was the same age Pouliot is going to be this upcoming season, the Pens used 12 defensemen - including a broken-down Scuderi - and he only got 8 games of NHL action.

Guess we should have cut bait with that guy when the writing was on the wall.

 

[Hottubber]

If you had to choose between trading either Sheary or Hagelin to acquire a 3rd line center, who would you keep?

hands down, I'd rather keep Sheary.

Id keep Hags cause Sheary could get us a better 3C I believe. Im also skeptical as to how much money he wants

 

[davemess]

If you had to choose between trading either Sheary or Hagelin to acquire a 3rd line center, who would you keep?

I dunno, I think we can replace the offensive numbers that Sheary gives us more easily than we could replace the defensive game and speed that Hagelin brings.

Probably comes down to what kind of contract Sheary is going to want to sign long term. If he will sign at a reasonable number then you keep him clearly, if he is looking at something around $5m AVV then you probably move him and let somebody else pay him that money.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

If you had to choose between trading either Sheary or Hagelin to acquire a 3rd line center, who would you keep?

hands down, I'd rather keep Sheary.

Hagelin doesn't have the value Sheary does though. Do you want to dump Hags for a 3rd round pick for cap space, then trade our 1st for Haula? Or do we just make something more resembling a hockey trade straight up, Sheary for a solid 3C?

The latter seems like better asset management, but I suppose you can argue the other way too considering our ideal window is now.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I think Hags needs to be on his usual pace points-wise for us to even get a Bonino-like player in return. If that's possible I'm interested. Trading Hags while he's on pace for 15-17 goals for a solid but unspectacular 3C is a trade I'd make assuming there are no other decent alternatives.

 

[Shady Machine]

If you had to choose between trading either Sheary or Hagelin to acquire a 3rd line center, who would you keep?

hands down, I'd rather keep Sheary.

Definitely keeping Sheary although I suppose it depends on return in a trade. Hags is a valuable player, but at 4MM, he was always a little overpaid. Archibald can provide a lot of the attributes (plus Rust) for a fraction of the cost.

 

[Bumpus]

This thread needs moar Duchene

Kill it with fire.

 

[Clare2904]

8x8m for Ryan J in Nashville.

 

[Shady Machine]

8x8m for Ryan J in Nashville.

That's a lot of money based on recent production and injuries, but that's the going rate for young high end #1 centers. Boy am I glad Sid and Geno were locked up when they were.

 

[mpp9]

I'm not a huge fan of Maatta, but I don't think even he could get burned by Hartnell.

 

[SEALBound]

If you had to choose between trading either Sheary or Hagelin to acquire a 3rd line center, who would you keep?

hands down, I'd rather keep Sheary.

Depends on the return. If it's the same player no matter who, I give them Hagelin.

As far as choosing who to pick as bait, I have a lot of guys on that list.

There are no shortage of clips of Maatta getting burned, and he's an established top 4 defenseman making 4 mil per. And one of those times was by Bobby Ryan, who's every bit as slow as Hartnell.

See, that's the problem with anecdotal evidence.

When Dumoulin was the same age Pouliot is going to be this upcoming season, the Pens used 12 defensemen - including a broken-down Scuderi - and he only got 8 games of NHL action.

Guess we should have cut bait with that guy when the writing was on the wall.

Dumoulin's success after many years in WBS is likely a key reason they kept Pouliot. So he has a few more years in the minors than expected, big whoop.

 

[WayneSid9987]

If you had to choose between trading either Sheary or Hagelin to acquire a 3rd line center, who would you keep?

hands down, I'd rather keep Sheary.

When you think about it, the roster proved they can win without either in the PO's but yea in terms of replacements on the farm, Sheary is literaly what peeps here hope Sprong can be in terms of production so you deffo don't just throw a player like that away.
If he's dealt, it'd have to be a helluva 3C coming back.

 

[Clare2904]

That's a lot of money based on recent production and injuries, but that's the going rate for young high end #1 centers. Boy am I glad Sid and Geno were locked up when they were.

Not to mention what they gave up to get him in the first place.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

8x8m for Ryan J in Nashville.

That's a lot of cheddar for a guy who produces around 60 points and hasn't even scored 20 goals in the past two seasons.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

How would you guys feel about Maatta for Bozak and Kapanen?

Seems like a deal that could work out for both sides.

 

[SEALBound]

How would you guys feel about Maatta for Bozak and Kapanen?

Seems like a deal that could work out for both sides.

In a vacuum, perhaps. But I believe we need a Top 4 dman more than a 3C. We are loaded at wing so Kapanen does little for me.

If we had something in place for another dman, I would consider it though but I would want to see what the plan on defense was first.

Hagelin for Bozak helps up out much more.