Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Well, now what?

[Riptide]

I think you are over exaggerating his complaints. I do think it's unlikely he stays at this point, but there's a lot of season ahead and he certainly can't complain about his usage right now. If Pens are successful with him here, I could see him wanting to stay.

I'm not crazy about giving another long term extension to a dude over 30, but I'm REALLY not crazy about paying Sheahan 3-4MM to be the 3C. I'm sure I'm too harsh with him, but I just don't like the player. He definitely he can be effective, but a lot of the time he's so blah.

Well we know they were real, and we know he's currently playing on the wing... so I'm not so sure about that...

That's going to go for most guys in the 3-4m range. We got spoiled by Bonino and HBK's hot streak that was never repeatable. But most of the centers who will make 3-4m are not going to be guys anywhere close to Brassard's caliber. And the few that are, are guys on amazing contracts and/or are vastly out performing those contracts.

 

[Riptide]

GMGR ****ed up when it came to our d-corps minus MAYBE Dumo and Schultz. They're all overpaid by like a million dolllars or more for what they actually bring performance-wise. It's really put us in a bad position going forward.

Perhaps... but if so, it would be a pretty easy fix. Maatta is very tradeable. Oleksiak less so, but we could still probably move him if we needed to. JJ, not so much. Unfortunately for us, we're stuck with him for at least a few seasons... that said, at 3.25m I don't see him as all that overpaid. I mean Cole is making 4.25m. And while JJ has had some up and down games... so has most of the team. I have a really hard time singling out anyone when almost everyone (starting right at the top) is playing poorly.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Are you confident going up against the likes of the Leafs over the next few years with Sheahan at 3C? I'm willing to rearrange some deck chairs to keep Brassard here, if need be. Centers are at a premium and other teams will be able to go toe-to-toe with us down the middle even if we keep Brass - downgrading like that is unthinkable if we really want to contend.

The cap next year is projected to be 81.4 mil at the low end...and anywhere up to 85 mil depending on NHLPA escalators.

You could get worse and you could get better, but I live in a pragmatic view of the cap, and I don’t see Brassard in the cards past this season. Salary wise he will be unattainable. Is Sheahan the solution to 3C past this season, I don’t know. I think he is better than a lot of options, and the Pens should look at elevating the position past him in the off season. But I just view Brassard as a non-option due to the cap after this season. I’m not some Sheahan fan boy, I just see the cap and don’t see the numbers for keeping Brassard.

 

[Shady Machine]

Well we know they were real, and we know he's currently playing on the wing... so I'm not so sure about that...

That's going to go for most guys in the 3-4m range. We got spoiled by Bonino and HBK's hot streak that was never repeatable. But most of the centers who will make 3-4m are not going to be guys anywhere close to Brassard's caliber. And the few that are, are guys on amazing contracts and/or are vastly out performing those contracts.

Right. So I'd rather spend 6MM to get the real deal vs 4MM to get a mediocre player. Not saying Brass wants to stay, but in a vacuum, I take Brass at 6MM vs Sheahan at 3.5MM all day.

 

[Gurglesons]

Right. So I'd rather spend 6MM to get the real deal vs 4MM to get a mediocre player. Not saying Brass wants to stay, but in a vacuum, I take Brass at 6MM vs Sheahan at 3.5MM all day.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Brass gets 7 mil tbh compared to what Statsny got this year.

 

[Gurglesons]

I wonder if Craig Anderson comes to the Penguins.

 

[Riptide]

I wonder if Craig Anderson comes to the Penguins.

Not unless someone else who's extremely valuable is coming with him... because I can't see Rutherford taking Anderson and his 2 yr contract (2x4.75m) under any circumstances.

 

[Peat]

You could get worse and you could get better, but I live in a pragmatic view of the cap, and I don’t see Brassard in the cards past this season. Salary wise he will be unattainable. Is Sheahan the solution to 3C past this season, I don’t know. I think he is better than a lot of options, and the Pens should look at elevating the position past him in the off season. But I just view Brassard as a non-option due to the cap after this season. I’m not some Sheahan fan boy, I just see the cap and don’t see the numbers for keeping Brassard.

Say the cap goes up by 2m (low ball estimate right now). Then say that Hagelin walks and is replaced by an ELC (we currently have a lot of wings on cheap deals who've had top 9 time for us, not unrealistic, and guys in WBS who are said to be 4th line ready), that Sheahan is replaced by a Grant/Blueger, and that Maatta is traded for futures and replaced by Riikola on 2m. I don't think that any of that's unrealistic.

You now have 9m worth of cap room to play with. Lets say Guentzel gets 5 of that. 4m left could totally cover Brassard.

edit: 8, not 9, but it still works.

 

[Turin]

Not unless someone else who's extremely valuable is coming with him... because I can't see Rutherford taking Anderson and his 2 yr contract (2x4.75m) under any circumstances.

Alright how do we get Anderson and Stone.

 

[EightyOne]

Alright how do we get Anderson and Stone.

Edi: If you are serious, thats like 11.5mil in salary cap.

 

[Turin]

I have no idea how this team jettisons 11mil in cap to bring those guys over, lol. The only players we have that make that much would be a huge overpayment.

Yea... Alright, how do we just get Stone.

 

[EightyOne]

Yea... Alright, how do we just get Stone.

I would avoid. Dude is crazy to think he is worth 7.5mil.

A career high of 64 points?

And another RW?

AND injury prone??

f*** that.

 

[Turin]

I would avoid. Dude is crazy to think he is worth 7.5mil.

A career high of 64 points?

And another RW?

AND injury prone??

**** that.

Would instantly be the Pens best forward defensively though. Would murder on a line with Guentzel and Crosby.

 

[Riptide]

I would avoid. Dude is crazy to think he is worth 7.5mil.
A career high of 64 points?
And another RW?
AND injury prone??
**** that.

A career high 64 points yes. But he also had 62 pts in 58 games last season - all while playing for Ottawa of all teams. And while he's missed some games... he's played 71+ games in 3 of the last 4 seasons, missing a total of 20 games over those 3 seasons. Add to that, that he has a defensive game like Hagelin, and he's basically a newer bigger version of Hossa. Between Crosby and Malkin finding a spot for him would be stupidly easy - if only because Kessel would no longer be here. The cap alone would pretty much dictate that.

There's not many wingers out there who I'd be willing to pay 7m+ to... but Stone is easily one of them.

 

[EightyOne]

A career high 64 points yes. But he also had 62 pts in 58 games last season - all while playing for Ottawa of all teams. And while he's missed some games... he's played 71+ games in 3 of the last 4 seasons, missing a total of 20 games over those 3 seasons. Add to that, that he has a defensive game like Hagelin, and he's basically a newer bigger version of Hossa. Between Crosby and Malkin finding a spot for him would be stupidly easy - if only because Kessel would no longer be here. The cap alone would pretty much dictate that.

There's not many wingers out there who I'd be willing to pay 7m+ to... but Stone is easily one of them.

How do the Pens add a 7mil player/who can they package out//would Stone re-sign here?

 

[Riptide]

How do the Pens add a 7mil player/who can they package out//would Stone re-sign here?

I don't think it's something you can do in season. I think this is something that you do in the summer. Much like trading Kessel isn't an inseason move you make.

 

[Peat]

I don't think it's something you can do in season. I think this is something that you do in the summer. Much like trading Kessel isn't an inseason move you make.

Maybe later in the season after banking a lot of space...

... but I kinda feel that any talk of trading with Ottawa in season is ignoring the history of their recent moves where they have very deliberately turned down superior offers in order to avoid trading their big assets in conference.

 

[Peat]

Just on the Brassard vs Sheahan thing -

Brassard's sample so far suggests he can be a 40 ES point centre with a lot of time with Kessel and a... not sure, but quite a bit lower without him centre.

Sheahan's sample so far suggests he can be a 32 ES point with a lot of time with Kessel and a... not sure, but quite a bit lower without him centre. And the Pens have scored at a higher rate with him on the ice, both with and without Kessel, than with Brassard. That's slightly in defiance of their possession metrics, but Brassard has yet to be significantly better there, despite better line mates and zone starts.

The samples aren't large enough to be definite and we'll understand what we have here a lot better by the end of the season but an 8 point difference is not worth 3m. I'm confident that Brassard is a great player and is showing some great chemistry here and there's a really good chance the samples will look different by the end of the season... but they need to. Because right now, no matter what the eye test says, Brassard doesn't help the Pens significantly more than Sheahan.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Phil's not a good fit with either Sid or Geno because all three need the puck on their stick, directing play and controlling the pace in order to be their best. Geno-Phil produces, but they're absolute dogshit in terms of a shift-by-shift basis. Each player is lessened by the presence of the other on their line.

I'd really like JR to be proactive with Phil. The writing is on the wall with the guy as far as his future with this team goes, between the Sully thing and the fact that he (rumored) refuses to play on any line but Geno's. It's time to shop Kessel, and keep an eye on potential replacements rumored to be available in Duchene, Stone, Nino, and Saad.

I love Brassard, and I think he's a fine long-term 3C here. But we have to sort out the Sid line and the Geno line before we worry about having a Brassard. Sid and Jake need a RW. Geno needs potentially two wingers, come this summer when Hags walks.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You could get worse and you could get better, but I live in a pragmatic view of the cap, and I don’t see Brassard in the cards past this season. Salary wise he will be unattainable. Is Sheahan the solution to 3C past this season, I don’t know. I think he is better than a lot of options, and the Pens should look at elevating the position past him in the off season. But I just view Brassard as a non-option due to the cap after this season. I’m not some Sheahan fan boy, I just see the cap and don’t see the numbers for keeping Brassard.

Ta-da:

Error - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

The damn site would prefer to buffer than publish the team, but basically you trade Olli for futures, replace him with Riikola @ 2 mil, and go young on the 4th line (things we should probably do anyway), and you can even make the minimum projections for next year's cap.

 

[Shady Machine]

Phil's not a good fit with either Sid or Geno because all three need the puck on their stick, directing play and controlling the pace in order to be their best. Geno-Phil produces, but they're absolute dog**** in terms of a shift-by-shift basis. Each player is lessened by the presence of the other on their line.

I'd really like JR to be proactive with Phil. The writing is on the wall with the guy as far as his future with this team goes, between the Sully thing and the fact that he (rumored) refuses to play on any line but Geno's. It's time to shop Kessel, and keep an eye on potential replacements rumored to be available in Duchene, Stone, Nino, and Saad.

I love Brassard, and I think he's a fine long-term 3C here. But we have to sort out the Sid line and the Geno line before we worry about having a Brassard. Sid and Jake need a RW. Geno needs potentially two wingers, come this summer when Hags walks.

JR likely scanned the market this summer and determined there wasn't any great offer out there.

Kessel continues to be under appreciated on these boards for some reason.

 

[Peat]

JR likely scanned the market this summer and determined there wasn't any great offer out there.

Kessel continues to be under appreciated on these boards for some reason.

This. We heard a load of rumours. Nothing concrete happened. The most likely reason why is the value just wasn't there. I'm as skeptical as anyone of Kessel's fit here but if the value's not there, you just make it work as well as you can.

And currently I'm very thankful it worked out that way.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not unless someone else who's extremely valuable is coming with him... because I can't see Rutherford taking Anderson and his 2 yr contract (2x4.75m) under any circumstances.

For some reason I thought he was a UFA next year.

 

[EightyOne]

Hmm. I figured it out.

Pens fast. Win. League copies. Speed can't beat speed.





Pens slow....win? League copies?

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Ta-da:

Error - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

The damn site would prefer to buffer than publish the team, but basically you trade Olli for futures, replace him with Riikola @ 2 mil, and go young on the 4th line (things we should probably do anyway), and you can even make the minimum projections for next year's cap.

Your link wont load. But I do not see GMJR trading Olli ether. While he is a whipping boy around the Penguins fan base right now, I do not believe the organization views him in the same manner as the fan base at the moment. So even though I can not see your salary roster, you have to look at Guentzel getting any where from 4.75-5.5M, then subtract Olli being traded and your numbers are probably slimmer than you had them.