Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Rainbow's End down That Highway Where Ocean Breezes Blow

[Gurglesons]

What's the argument for Kopitar? That some years he's really bad and other years he's really good meanwhile Malkin is just always good?

Both are bad.

Kopi is basically at his best what people say Toews is.

 

[Shady Machine]

Please point out the years where Kopitar is really bad? I have one. Last year.

Yeah and he was a tire fire last year. Geno has never had a year approaching anything like that. Please point out the years Kopitar has been better than Malkin.

 

[The Greatest 101]

Bad defensively. Not some powerhouse offensively. 39 points last year. Only topped 50 once. Again. Maatta is signed long term and is better defensively. Who's better? OEL, easily. But take contracts into account, Maatta is more valuable. OEL ain't a #1 Dman.

You might be the only person in this world who thinks Maatta is more valuable than OEL atm. Maatta is a solid second pair defenseman. OEL is an all-star defenseman with game breaking ability. Contract or not, No way Maatta is more valuable.Btw,Watching OEL run powerplay is pure joy.

 

[Gurglesons]

Bad defensively. Not some powerhouse offensively. 39 points last year. Only topped 50 once. Again. Maatta is signed long term and is better defensively. Who's better? OEL, easily. But take contracts into account, Maatta is more valuable. OEL ain't a #1 Dman.

Maatta is not and never will be more valuable than OEL. OEL is a top pairing defenseman capable of putting up 40ish points a year with typically at minimum 10 goals.

Judging his defense on what has been a bottom feeder is a joke.

 

[PensandCaps]

You might be the only person in this world who thinks Maatta is more valuable than OEL atm. Maatta is a solid second pair defenseman. OEL is an all-star defenseman with game breaking ability. Contract or not, No way Maatta is more valuable.Btw,Watching OEL run powerplay is pure joy.

Yea. OEL is a beauty on the PP. The rest of his game is lacking. He's Shattenkirk.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Watching OEL run powerplay is pure joy.

No, watching OEL watching Letang run a pwerplay is pure joy.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yea. OEL is a beauty on the PP. The rest of his game is lacking. He's Shattenkirk.

So a top pairing defenseman with incredible offensive ability that makes the occasional gaffe, versus a mid pairing defenseman with meh offensive ability that makes the occasional gaffe.

I like Maatta, I’d trade him + Sprong for OEL and him + pick for Shattenkirk.

 

[PensandCaps]

Yeah and he was a tire fire last year. Geno has never had a year approaching anything like that. Please point out the years Kopitar has been better than Malkin.

10-11
12-13
15-16.
Maybe This year.

Those years he had near the same offensive oput, stayed healthy and is the best defensive centre in the game aside from bergy.

 

[PensandCaps]

So a top pairing defenseman with incredible offensive ability that makes the occasional gaffe, versus a mid pairing defenseman with meh offensive ability that makes the occasional gaffe.

I like Maatta, I’d trade him + Sprong for OEL and him + pick for Shattenkirk.

How can you watch Shattenkirk and come away with that he is a top pairing dman? Take away his PP and he is a 3rd pair dman. Maatta is a better overall dman than Shattenkirk. OEL is atleast Above Average elsewhere, while Shattenkirk is a straight up liability.

 

[Gurglesons]

How can you watch Shattenkirk and come away with that he is a top pairing dman? Take away his PP and he is a 3rd pair dman. Maatta is a better overall dman than Shattenkirk. OEL is atleast Above Average elsewhere, while Shattenkirk is a straight up liability.

Maatta gives up the exact type of plays that Shattenkirk does? Take off the black and gold glasses, bro.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Agreed. Kane is a risk. If we brought him in as a rental for relatively cheap (unlikely) and he tore it up here and fit in well, then I'd likely be okay re-signing. But paying top dollar in free agency for a guy that has that kind of baggage doesn't seem like the wisest decision.

Kane is a risk, but Kane is also the best player, youngest and brings the most unique skill set of those 3. Yeah, there's a risk with him, but there are also a lot of pros with him. That's why the question is hard for me, Kane is the best player but has the most red flags.

 

[PensandCaps]

Maatta gives up the exact type of plays that Shattenkirk does? Take off the black and gold glasses, bro.

Also, Shattenkirk has an awful contract. 7 mil a year for a bad 5v5 Dman. Maatta is at 4mil a year. Plays good defense, moves the puck well. Not even close, Maatta is better than Shattenkirk. OEL is better than Maatta. But I value Maatta's contract more than OEL being an upgrade.

7 game SCF. Who you want? Shattenkirk or Maatta?

Im easily taking Maatta.

 

[PensandCaps]

Maatta has the same amount of EV strenght goals as Shattenkirk. And more EV points. And he gets tough matchups defensively. Gift Maatta PP time, like Shattenkirk and he would have near the same amount of points.

 

[Shady Machine]

10-11
12-13
15-16.
Maybe This year.

Those years he had near the same offensive oput, stayed healthy and is the best defensive centre in the game aside from bergy.

12-13 I'll give you, the other 2 nah. 15-16 Malkin was a big part of a Cup team.

At the end of the day, would you trade Malkin for Kopitar right now? I can't believe I'm even having this conversation.

 

[Gurglesons]

12-13 I'll give you, the other 2 nah. 15-16 Malkin was a big part of a Cup team.

At the end of the day, would you trade Malkin for Kopitar right now? I can't believe I'm even having this conversation.

I mean he thinks Maatta has more value than OEL, so this is probably one of those conversations where you just look at another thread until it’s buried.

 

[Shady Machine]

Kane is a risk, but Kane is also the best player, youngest and brings the most unique skill set of those 3. Yeah, there's a risk with him, but there are also a lot of pros with him. That's why the question is hard for me, Kane is the best player but has the most red flags.

What makes someone the best player? Kane has topped 40 points 4 times in his career (will be 5 with this year) out of 8 years (this is his 9th season). He's topped 50 once.

Hornqvist has topped 40 points every season he's played more than 25 games and topped 50 4 times.

Kane has more talent and potential, but he's not a better player. Consistency matters and that's Horny. I'll take Horny over Kane every time, at least in a vacuum.

 

[Riptide]

Interesting.

 

[Ryder71]

What makes someone the best player? Kane has topped 40 points 4 times in his career (will be 5 with this year) out of 8 years (this is his 9th season). He's topped 50 once.

Hornqvist has topped 40 points every season he's played and topped 50 4 times.

Kane has more talent and potential, but he's not a better player. Consistency matters and that's Horny. I'll take Horny over Kane every time, at least in a vacuum.

In fairness Horny in general has played on better teams and has had Crosby in a lot of cases as his line mate.

 

[Ryder71]

Interesting.

That was brought up yesterday, like.

 

[Riptide]

If Kane is too expensive, I wouldn't mind taking a shot at Maroon if we need to go bargain shopping. Not ideal, but Maroon is kind of a prime Ryan Malone, with more toughness. Has shown he can play with high end player like McDavid. He is a north south, go the net big body with decent hands.

Agreed. And in that sense I'd almost go there first. If we could get our center and a top 9LW for a 2nd+3rd (or ideally less), I think that would set us up the best possible for the POs - at least at prices that will not break the bank.

Guentzel - Crosby - Simon
Hagelin - Malkin - Hornqvist
Maroon - Pleks - Kessel
Rust - Sheahan - Sheary

OR run this:

Guentzel - Crosby - Hornqvist
Maroon - Malkin - Kessel
Sheary - Pleks - Rust
Hagelin - Sheahan - Simon

There's so many options that having Maroon (or someone like him) gives us that we do not get with having Sprong and Simon in the lineup.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What makes someone the best player? Kane has topped 40 points 4 times in his career (will be 5 with this year) out of 8 years (this is his 9th season). He's topped 50 once.

Hornqvist has topped 40 points every season he's played more than 25 games and topped 50 4 times.

Kane has more talent and potential, but he's not a better player. Consistency matters and that's Horny. I'll take Horny over Kane every time, at least in a vacuum.

That's a pretty shortsighted way to look at it, considering Kane has missed games quite often over his career. Kane's career pace is 51 points per 82 games, it's just that he has missed 8 or more games in 7 seasons in his career. In his last 4 years, he has 74 goals and 136 points in 216 games, good for a pace of 28 goals and 52 points per 82 games. Even not including this year and doing 2013-2017, he still has a pace of 27 goals and 49 points per 82 games.

Hornqvist produces marginally more on a much better offensive team, but Kane is the more well rounder player. I'd definitely take Kane over Hornqvist looking purely at ability. They put up comparable numbers, while Hornqvist is in a much better situation than Kane, and Kane offers more than Hornqvist outside of production.

 

[Riptide]

Without a doubt Kane.

Kane is the best player of those 3, hes also

The youngest.
The fastest.
The most physical.
The only one that plays the PK.
And he plays left wing, which is a need for the pens.

He also has the most red flags, will likely be the most expensive and IQ wise is probably the stupidest.

 

[Riptide]

That was brought up yesterday, like.

And.... ?

 

[Shady Machine]

In fairness Horny in general has played on better teams and has had Crosby in a lot of cases as his line mate.

He produced the same in Nashville as Pittsburgh. Yeah that's better than the pits of Atlanta, Winnipeg, and Buffalo, but still. Plus, there are many cases of mediocre players producing better on shit teams than on great ones due to all the opportunity they are given. Not saying that's the case with Kane, but you can't always assume a bump when a player comes to Pittsburgh.

 

[Ryder71]

And.... ?

It was talked about in several threads throughout the forum at length. Probably on the main board most of all, but it's not that new of a revelation.