Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Every time I refresh, I panic.

[Honour Over Glory]

Remember when Sprong was never going to play another game? And Sullivan was smug Sully?

Remember when he got called out by the media, threw a hissy fit about it, then the next game he was in?

 

[pistolpete11]

In my opinion any and all resources should be devoted towards reshaping this defense first because it's a tire fire of colossal proportions that is having an impact on every other facet of the team.

That would, of course, also require shedding some of the bad to terrible contracts in this group like Maatta, Oleksiak and JJ. The last of which we're almost certainly just going to have to sit here and take for at least the remainder of this season.

This. 100% this.

The Pens always struggle without Letang or Schultz. It's not a coincidence they are without Schultz right now.

 

[Andy99]

The encouraging thing here? The impression I'm getting from these line combinations is that Crosby's line is going to be Simon-Crosby-Sprong when Sid gets back, baring any future changes. It could also be ZAR-Crosby-Rust, but I doubt that based on them using Grant with Simon and Sprong. Grant is definitely not in the lineup when everyone is healthy.

I don't know re Grant...based on the last couple games, he should be in the lineup over Sheahan and that's saying more about how Sheahan is playing....

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

This. 100% this.

The Pens always struggle without Letang or Schultz. It's not a coincidence they are without Schultz right now.

Right. And frankly we can't have the team go into a death spiral if it loses one defenseman. I don't care who it is... it's ridiculous that this entire group can fall to pieces because Schultz, much as I appreciate him, is out of the lineup. It's like building a massive skyscraper on a foundation of wet crackers.

 

[vodeni]

you guys are killing me...this team is so old and so slow now, they traded Hags now you would trade Jake and Rust, for what? more Pearsons, I heard David Peron may be available....as someone said I just pray that no one let the old man near the phone...I don't trust him anymore, his heart is in good place but he got all of this wrong....its simple, get rid of dead weight open up some cap space by letting Maatta go (prow can't be much worse), let Grant, Cullen and Sheahan go (plug either TB or Lafferty the can't be any worse) and try to get a little bit of speed and hands for the available money

 

[EightyOne]

Trading forwards when the defense is what it is...

..f***ing smart.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Simon's play on the year is actually a part of the reason I'm a little more open to talking about trading Guentzel. Simon looks like a guy that can fit well with Crosby on his LW, but the Penguins haven't had an actual good fit for Crosby's RW ever since Dupuis retired.



Yeah, I'd be trading Rust for a LW version of Rust almost immediately after that trade. Do you remember the lineup I threw out that had Guentzel-Crosby-Simon as the top line? The idea would be to try and find a RW that fits as well with Crosby as Guentzel does, which would allow Simon to be playing his normal side. It's probably super difficult to find a RWer like that, to the point where I probably wouldn't find a guy I'd trade Guentzel for, but it would be my plan. If you're going to trade someone who fits as well with Crosby as Guentzel does, it has to be for someone else who is going to fit with Crosby IMO.

Simon seems just as good on the RW too. I don’t see a drop off like some other wingers.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Trading forwards when the defense is what it is...

..****ing smart.

I see your point but, I mean... gotta give to get. And nobody is going to want to give up much for any of this team's "problem" defensemen. Though you could probably bamboozle someone with Maatta. Hell, there are still Penguins fans who think he's good!

 

[EightyOne]

I see your point but, I mean... gotta give to get. And nobody is going to want to give up much for any of this team's "problem" defensemen. Though you could probably bamboozle someone with Maatta. Hell, there are still Penguins fans who think he's good!

Okay, well then we gotta sell forwards to improve the defense.

Which will hurt the offense.

It's almost like trades won't really fix the issues.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Okay, well then we gotta sell forwards to improve the defense.

Which will hurt the offense.

It's almost like trades won't really fix the issues.

I agree with you. I think a lot could be fixed from behind the bench and some smart callups.

But Sullivan isn't going anywhere. And he's not going to change tack overmuch... so... where does that leave us, realistically?

Plus I just don't like this team's forward group, anyway. I wouldn't mind a shakeup. Too many square pegs and all that.

 

[Andy99]

I agree with you. I think a lot could be fixed from behind the bench and some smart callups.

But Sullivan isn't going anywhere. And he's not going to change tack overmuch... so... where does that leave us, realistically?

Plus I just don't like this team's forward group, anyway. I wouldn't mind a shakeup. Too many square pegs and all that.

Where that leaves us is missing the playoffs...

 

[Peat]

Right. And frankly we can't have the team go into a death spiral if it loses one defenseman. I don't care who it is... it's ridiculous that this entire group can fall to pieces because Schultz, much as I appreciate him, is out of the lineup. It's like building a massive skyscraper on a foundation of wet crackers.

This concurs with my thoughts.

But at the same time, I see a gigantic problem in terms of the forwards getting beaten to loose pucks and being lazy in the neutral zone. That's the direct root of so many of the breakaway chances we leak - not to mention we're losing out on some great chances as well - with forwards failing to cover pinching dmen being responsible for another good chunk. I know a lot of us want the players to be more conservative and respectful of the speed of the league but at the same time it can't be off the menu forever and that'll always mean a forward has to rotate back.

I think it might be a bigger problem.

But then - providing the players are actually willing to work and are well directed, you don't need fantastic players to fix that. But what Schultz/Letang does, you do need a high level of talent to be that guy. But then what if a 15-16 Schultz-esque player would provide the fix if sheltered like mad in the d-zone? That's a lot easier to find.

Okay, well then we gotta sell forwards to improve the defense.

Which will hurt the offense.

It's almost like trades won't really fix the issues.

I shan't go down the "improve the defence and the offence will follow" route as I think we've been down that road before -

But does Crosby/Malkin/Kessel/Brassard/Horny/Simon/Rust/Pearson/ANOther really need Guentzel if everyone's playing well? Its not all that different from the 15-16 forward group.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Where that leaves us is missing the playoffs...

Well... that's on the team, then. But it's a tough choice, to be fair. What are you supposed to do with a B2B champion coach? What team wouldn't give him a ton of rope?

Maybe a transition year wouldn't be such a bad thing? Expose and excise the rot? Obviously this is not what I hope for but the further down this hole we go the more likely it gets. The scary thing there would be how quickly they would be able to fix the problem. If they even could in one offseason. I don't think this team is so far off and I do think a lot of this is simply underperforming from the players combined with some extremely uninspired coaching and bad contracts handed out by the GM. But it would still require a lot of energy, savvy and tough decisions by the GM. And I sorta see him as part of the issue so I dunno.

I would say it's just best if they work their way out of this jam and make us all look dumb. But I mean... is anything learned, then?

 

[Gurglesons]

Remember when he got called out by the media, threw a hissy fit about it, then the next game he was in?

If you think Mackey has any effect on anything related to the Penguins. Straight up LOL.

And he was the same dude saying Sprong would never play.

 

[billybudd]

Could you remind me again... which one was this?

McKenzie reported that Pierre McGuire was going to be the next GM. McKenzie apologized on air for getting this report wrong, saying that "a source at the highest level of the Penguins" decided to burn him and that he wouldn't trust the guy again.

I think what happened is that after Morehouse leaked the McGuire hiring to McKenzie, the public feedback was so negative that they retreated to the fallback candidate, who was JR. Maybe "lie" is too strong a word for a situation where the Penguins changed their minds and neglected to update McKenzie on the current thinking before news of the decision was finalized.

 

[EightyOne]

If you think Mackey has any effect on anything related to the Penguins. Straight up LOL.

And he was the same dude saying Sprong would never play.

I appreciate your continued crusade against Sprong, but as long as he's getting 12 shifts on the fourth line, you can't tell me he's actually playing.

 

[Gurglesons]

I appreciate your continued crusade against Sprong, but as long as he's getting 12 shifts on the fourth line, you can't tell me he's actually playing.

Technically he was on the 3rd line last game.

 

[EightyOne]

Lol. Indeed.

And I'm sure it was killing Sullivan.

 

[Gurglesons]

Lol. Indeed.

And I'm sure it was killing Sullivan.

I think that relationship is completely overblown.

Frustrating, but it seems like Kunitz in 15-16 over Sheary in the playoffs all over again.

And look at how Sheary was viewed a year later.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think people need to differentiate between the forward problems and defense problems. Just because the defense is in worse shape doesn't mean they don't have a lot of work to address their forwards. It's the same response to the people who said they didn't like the Pearson deal because "they should be focusing on improving the defense", they have multiple areas they need to improve on the roster.

When Schultz is healthy, I'm not sure the defense is a bigger problem than the forwards.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think people need to differentiate between the forward problems and defense problems. Just because the defense is in worse shape doesn't mean they don't have a lot of work to address their forwards. It's the same response to the people who said they didn't like the Pearson deal because "they should be focusing on improving the defense", they have multiple areas they need to improve on the roster.

When Schultz is healthy, I'm not sure the defense is a bigger problem than the forwards.

I can get behind that. I just think this team's offense traditionally flows from their defense and they are at their best when they have a good puck mover (particularity a guy who can actually SKATE with the puck) on each pairing. But I certainly don't disagree that the group of forwards is badly flawed, too.

Heh... I don't think anyone has to quibble over it too much. We can all just simply agree that the entire roster is suspect.

 

[Peat]

I think people need to differentiate between the forward problems and defense problems. Just because the defense is in worse shape doesn't mean they don't have a lot of work to address their forwards. It's the same response to the people who said they didn't like the Pearson deal because "they should be focusing on improving the defense", they have multiple areas they need to improve on the roster.

When Schultz is healthy, I'm not sure the defense is a bigger problem than the forwards.

I hear you, but Schultz isn't going to be healthy for another... 3 and a half months now? I'm not sure we can survive that long.

And as others have said, I'm a bit tired of having a defence that looks like a sand castle with just one injury.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I hear you, but Schultz isn't going to be healthy for another... 3 and a half months now? I'm not sure we can survive that long.

And as others have said, I'm a bit tired of having a defence that looks like a sand castle with just one injury.

The defense is a problem right now, but I don't think people should be using the defense being a problem as a way to minimize the forwards being a problem. Both are problems, Rutherford should be focusing on improving both of them. You shouldn't be picking 1 and ignoring the other one, both need to be addressed.

 

[orby]

Maatta+Sprong a year ago probably would have bought a nice upgrade on defense. Now, I don't know. They're really in a pickle this year because they badly need to upgrade the defense but have two awful contracts on D that will be very hard (in Johnson's case, maybe even impossible) to ship out.

 

[EightyOne]

The defense is a problem right now, but I don't think people should be using the defense being a problem as a way to minimize the forwards being a problem. Both are problems, Rutherford should be focusing on improving both of them. You shouldn't be picking 1 and ignoring the other one, both need to be addressed.

This is the breakdown, though:

Our defense is nearly worthless as trade bait. So. Do you really think JR can send anyone out of the backend that would bring anyone in to improve it?

The forwards are either:

Very shitty and expensive, making them unattractive as trade bait. Or young, good contracts, but underperforming.

It's not about downplaying the forwards for defense.

It's just, the only assets to trade are promising forwards. Which is probably the last thing a "rebuilding" team should trade. It likely just continues to hurt the forward corps while the defense continues to suck.

It's very no win.