Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Every time I refresh, I panic.

[Andy99]

Not sure what you are talking about to be honest.

Once JR start shopping him around he was on the bench so he didn’t get hurt, essentially.

It’s exactly why you heard Friedman, DK, and Mackey all being mouthpieces for the org about Sprong potentially being gone soon. The org usually preps the fans through the media before a guy is moved.

The fact he was put back in makes me believe JR was likely getting garbage offers, which isn’t exactly a surprise.

They were never going to get anything for him that would have helped them now, just a pick or AHL player or something...anyone could have told them that, and JR’s smell of desperation likely made it worse...they are better off any way you look at it playing the kid...so F U Sully...

 

[Andy99]

Why is he being shopped? Sullivan doesn’t think he fits his team and the way he wants his guys to play. Doesn’t think he’s an NHL player.

Is his dislike that strong? They don’t speculate on how Sullivan feels about him personally.

I’m sure if he started popping in lots of goals Sullivan could tolerate him like he does Kessel. I mean, he did push Cole and Reaves out, but they didn’t score a lot of points I guess.

So if Sprong can ever get his mojo back and rack up goals and points, I’d think he is relatively safe. However, that’s probably not likely for several reasons... ie his usage, the fact his last game is the only game he looked remotely like the explosive goal scorer I’m used to seeing, etc

Who knows what will happen, but if anyone thinks Sullivan truly wants Sprong on this roster, they are living in a fantasy world.

By not “fitting”the team, they mean he’s weird...he fits the team fine on the ice if he scores some goals and make some offensive opportunities for his teammates ...Sully just doesn’t like him and thinks he takes Uber too much...it’s that petty

 

[JRS91]

I don't see Anaheim moving Montour or Manson for Maatta.

I think the best deal you'll get for Maatta is a swap with Vancouver for Tanev. They're pretty similar but Tanev you know what you're getting, Vancouver gets a younger player with a higher ceiling. Penguins get a more mobile player. Tanev is arguably the better player, but Maatta puts up better numbers and has a higher ceiling. I feel like it's a fair trade for both teams.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

By not “fitting”the team, they mean he’s weird...he fits the team fine on the ice if he scores some goals and make some offensive opportunities for his teammates ...Sully just doesn’t like him and thinks he takes Uber too much...it’s that petty

They just meant his play style. Sullivan doesn’t think he plays an NHL style game. They never speculated on how he felt about his personality.

I’ve heard he’s borderline arrogant and cocky, but that’s in the eye of the beholder. One may see arrogance, others may see confidence.

That may rub Sullivan the wrong way, but that’s just me guessing and I’m pretty sure he would just deal with it if Sprong filled the net. I honestly don’t think Sullivan is that petty, but what I heard about the Cole stuff was not too flattering towards Sullivan.

So basically, who the hell knows. All I’m sure of is Sullivan thinks Sprong isn’t an NHL player, and coaches don’t want guys they perceive that way on their roster... obviously.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

That may rub Sullivan the wrong way, but just me guessing and I’m pretty sure he would just deal with it if Sprong filled the net.

One way you can ensure that he "doesn't fill the net" is to put a player in positions to not be able to do so, yes?

Something something self fulfilling prophecies...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Re-signing Sheahan was viewed as a no brainer amongst these parts and it was due to:

1) He was a good 3/4C tweener who didn't hurt the team when on the ice
2) He was a good pk guy
3) He was insanely cheap when you looked at comparables
4) He was viewed as insurance if/when Brass left for FA- he was essentially a hedge

The problems though:

1. The Penguins didn't need a 3C/4C tweener when they had Brassard, Cullen (they would have known Cullen was coming back when they signed Sheahan), Blueger and Dea in the system as bottom-6 centers. Pointing out Grant would have been totally hindsight, but they were extremely deep at center.
2. But again, they didn't need another PKing center, especially not for $2.1 million.
3. He's not insanely cheap when he's a 4C making $2.1 million. For the role he was playing here, he was not cheap. Just because he's cheaper than what some comparable 3Cs were making doesn't make him cheap.
4. He wasn't someone they were satisfied with as the 3C before acquiring Brassard last year, so why would they have been satisfied with him sticking as the 3C if Brassard would leave? And how do you know that Sheahan would have even been "insurance" for the 3C spot? He only got a 1 year deal and becomes a UFA after next year.

Had a team paid him $2 million to be their 3C and be a PKer for them, I think it was fine. But for this team, considering who else they had, it was non-nonsensical to sign him for the contract that he got.

Why is he being shopped? Sullivan doesn’t think he fits his team and the way he wants his guys to play. Doesn’t think he’s an NHL player.

I meant the "aggressively" part more than anything. I find it very understandable for them to be looking to move Sprong, I just don't get why they were so hell-bent on moving him. And along with that, I don't get why they weren't using Sprong in a more appropriate role if they wanted to shop him. Sullivan seems to be simultaneously not wanting him on the roster, while also not using him to increase his value to something that JR would trade him for.

 

[Sideline]

Arizona might be an interesting trade partner. There's a piece by an Arizona writer for The Athletic that names Perlini, Strome, and Goose as potentially available. Tocchet has to have some favorites we could send him for someone off that list.

 

[Andy99]

They just meant his play style. Sullivan doesn’t think he plays an NHL style game. They never speculated on how he felt about his personality.

I’ve heard he’s borderline arrogant and cocky, but that’s in the eye of the beholder. One may see arrogance, others may see confidence.

That may rub Sullivan the wrong way, but that’s just me guessing and I’m pretty sure he would just deal with it if Sprong filled the net. I honestly don’t think Sullivan is that petty, but what I heard about the Cole stuff was not too flattering towards Sullivan.

So basically, who the hell knows. All I’m sure of is Sullivan thinks Sprong isn’t an NHL player, and coaches don’t want guys they perceive that way on their roster... obviously.

Right, but “NHL style game” is the same euphemism for “200 foot game,” which many NHL players don’t play either....like many wingers who have played for the Pens (see Phil, Sykora, etc)...it’s a circular and therefore meaningless description...if the coach thinks you play well, then you have a NHL style game and if not, then you don’t...lol...I agree with those saying if Sprong filled the net, he’d play a NHL game...Sully doesn’t like sniper types in general but he’d still play a NHL game

 

[Empoleon8771]

Arizona might be an interesting trade partner. There's a piece by an Arizona writer for The Athletic that names Perlini, Strome, and Goose as potentially available. Tocchet has to have some favorites we could send him for someone off that list.

Strome I get, but the rest are confusing to me. Why Perlini? He's not producing that well, but he's 22. Same with Goligoski, just doesn't make sense.

Just for laughs, Sprong and Rust for Strome and Perlini. Get it done JR.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

One way you can ensure that he "doesn't fill the net" is to put a player in positions to not be able to do so, yes?

Something something self fulfilling prophecies...

He definitely did that with Reaves.

With Sprong, it’s a chicken or egg argument I suppose.

I keep trying to see it from his side, even if I really disagree with it.

The problems though:

1. The Penguins didn't need a 3C/4C tweener when they had Brassard, Cullen (they would have known Cullen was coming back when they signed Sheahan), Blueger and Dea in the system as bottom-6 centers. Pointing out Grant would have been totally hindsight, but they were extremely deep at center.
2. But again, they didn't need another PKing center, especially not for $2.1 million.
3. He's not insanely cheap when he's a 4C making $2.1 million. For the role he was playing here, he was not cheap. Just because he's cheaper than what some comparable 3Cs were making doesn't make him cheap.
4. He wasn't someone they were satisfied with as the 3C before acquiring Brassard last year, so why would they have been satisfied with him sticking as the 3C if Brassard would leave? And how do you know that Sheahan would have even been "insurance" for the 3C spot? He only got a 1 year deal and becomes a UFA after next year.

Had a team paid him $2 million to be their 3C and be a PKer for them, I think it was fine. But for this team, considering who else they had, it was non-nonsensical to sign him for the contract that he got.



I meant the "aggressively" part more than anything. I find it very understandable for them to be looking to move Sprong, I just don't get why they were so hell-bent on moving him. And along with that, I don't get why they weren't using Sprong in a more appropriate role if they wanted to shop him. Sullivan seems to be simultaneously not wanting him on the roster, while also not using him to increase his value to something that JR would trade him for.

Aggressively just means make him gone I suppose. But I guess JR decided it wasn’t worth throwing him away for crap offers? No idea.

As for basically showcasing Sprong so they could move him, that isn’t realistic. Sullivan is in the business of winning games, well he used to be, and playing Sprong apparently doesn’t achieve that objective in his mind.

There’s been enough innuendo that’s been leaked by legit media since I passed this info along to the board last year around this time. If people can’t put 1+1 together by now... well...

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

The problems though:

1. The Penguins didn't need a 3C/4C tweener when they had Brassard, Cullen (they would have known Cullen was coming back when they signed Sheahan), Blueger and Dea in the system as bottom-6 centers. Pointing out Grant would have been totally hindsight, but they were extremely deep at center.
2. But again, they didn't need another PKing center, especially not for $2.1 million.
3. He's not insanely cheap when he's a 4C making $2.1 million. For the role he was playing here, he was not cheap. Just because he's cheaper than what some comparable 3Cs were making doesn't make him cheap.
4. He wasn't someone they were satisfied with as the 3C before acquiring Brassard last year, so why would they have been satisfied with him sticking as the 3C if Brassard would leave? And how do you know that Sheahan would have even been "insurance" for the 3C spot? He only got a 1 year deal and becomes a UFA after next year.

Had a team paid him $2 million to be their 3C and be a PKer for them, I think it was fine. But for this team, considering who else they had, it was non-nonsensical to sign him for the contract that he got.



.

1. I think you have to understand the context that this team did not want a repeat of the beginning of LAST YEAR when we basically had no 3/4C's. JR was adamant this wasn't going to happen again. I also believe they thought they had a handshake agreement with Cullen prior to LAST YEAR, which really screwed up their plans.

Furthermore, there was talk early how Brass was going to cameo at Wing and signing Sheahan allowed them to experiment with this. So not only was RS's signing a way to boost the C depth, it consequently was a method to give Sid help

2. Right or wrong, Sully's preference is to have his 3/4 C's to be Faceoff/PK whiz's. RS is exactly that.

3. Again go back to point #1 above- the plan was to basically have RS play 3C half the time and 4C the other half so Brass could sometimes play with Sid. So yes by that measure he's a bargain at 2.1M

4. This sentence is contradictory in nature. They supposedly weren't satisfied with RS, yet they re-signed him? Huh?
RS was an obvious insurance policy because it tends to be easier to sign your own guys (more cheaply) vs a FA. Your odds increase exponentially since middling/mid line players tend to stick with their own familiar surroundings. I think everyone assumes that Brass is gone after this season. That gave the Pens another year to assess who RS exactly is

 

[Sideline]

Strome I get, but the rest are confusing to me. Why Perlini? He's not producing that well, but he's 22. Same with Goligoski, just doesn't make sense.

Just for laughs, Sprong and Rust for Strome and Perlini. Get it done JR.

I was thinking Goose + Strome + pick/prospect for Maatta and Rust.

Penguins D gets faster and they get a possible LW/C option. Arizona get veterans with cost controled term that are still age aligned with their younger core.

 

[Empoleon8771]

1. I think you have to understand the context that this team did not want a repeat of the beginning of LAST YEAR when we basically had no 3/4C's. JR was adamant this wasn't going to happen again. I also believe they thought they had a handshake agreement with Cullen prior to LAST YEAR, which really screwed up their plans.

Furthermore, there was talk early how Brass was going to cameo at Wing and signing Sheahan allowed them to experiment with this. So not only was RS's signing a way to boost the C depth, it consequently was a method to give Sid help

I don't think this is a justification, though. Rutherford ****ed up by not having good enough center depth last year, but the response to that shouldn't be to go crazy on your centers the next year. He just took it from one extreme to the other by deciding to do that.

3. Again go back to point #1 above- the plan was to basically have RS play 3C half the time and 4C the other half so Brass could sometimes play with Sid. So yes by that measure he's a bargain at 2.1M

I haven't seen any indication that the plan was for Brassard to split time as the 3C and winger. The plan has seemed to be "let's see what Brassard can do on the wing", there was never a plan to play him significant time there unless it worked in the early stages. $2.1 million isn't a bargain for a guy who's spending significant time as the 4C, it's just not. Even if that was the plan, for him to get half of his time at 3C, that's not worth worth $2 million.

4. This sentence is contradictory in nature. They supposedly weren't satisfied with RS, yet they re-signed him? Huh?
RS was an obvious insurance policy because it tends to be easier to sign your own guys (more cheaply) vs a FA. Your odds increase exponentially since middling/mid line players tend to stick with their own familiar surroundings. I think everyone assumes that Brass is gone after this season. That gave the Pens another year to assess who RS exactly is

"He wasn't someone they were satisfied with as the 3C before acquiring Brassard last year"

You're cutting off the point of what I was saying. If they weren't satisfied with him as the 3C last year, to the point where they spent big assets on acquiring Brassard, why is that going to change going forward? And you're still assuming that Sheahan would have wanted to stick around after spending a significant portion of the year before as the 4C, why wouldn't he try to get an actual 3C contract from a team that wants to play him full time as a 3C?

I just inherently disagree with the solution of "paying your 4C $2 million a year" based on these justifications. JR screwing up the year before isn't a justification for making Sheahan a $2 million 4C. The uncertainty around Brassard isn't a justification for re-signing Sheahan, when you already didn't view him as 3C quality the year before.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Arizona might be an interesting trade partner. There's a piece by an Arizona writer for The Athletic that names Perlini, Strome, and Goose as potentially available. Tocchet has to have some favorites we could send him for someone off that list.

You had my curiosity when you said Arizona.

You have my attention when you mentioned Perlini.

Go ahead...get my hopes up, you bastard.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I was thinking Goose + Strome + pick/prospect for Maatta and Rust.

Penguins D gets faster and they get a possible LW/C option. Arizona get veterans with cost controled term that are still age aligned with their younger core.

Can we get Perlini instead? Strome seems bland to me.

 

[EightyOne]

ARI, STL, ANA.

Call them if you want trades JR.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

ARI, STL, ANA.

Call them if you want trades JR.

I'm down to get Perlini, Goose, and Strome from Zona, just not sure what it would take.

A 2nd, Sprong, ZAR, Rust, and Maatta for all 3?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

If the board is correct and Sprong looked much better last game, there is no reason i can see to not try a Simon-Sprong combo with Crosby and a Guentzel-Kessel and Pearson-Hornqvist as other top 9 wing combos. Now that Brassard is back hopefully can get the depth scoring going with whomever aint with Malkin.

 

[EightyOne]

I dunno either. That team is run real odd.

They should do more to keep their guys and try for playoffs. But. Maatta will be great in the west. And Rust will be a speeeeedy addition out there. And sprong..whatever. So. I guess Arizona might just get better with that trade actually.

Pens just roll the dice that those guys won't perform as bad as the ones they send out. But even if they are no better...they've gotta be cheaper? Which means JR can try further trading or postseason signings.

Basically. If you're gonna have a bad team, you better not be at 73mil on salary cap.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Pens just roll the dice that those guys won't preform as bad as the ones they send out. But even if they are no better...they've gotta be cheaper?

Gogo is ~5.5 and Strome is 3.3

So it's close, actually.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I dunno either. That team is run real odd.

They should do more to keep their guys and try for playoffs. But. Maatta will be great in the west. And Rust will be a speeeeedy addition out there. And sprong..whatever. So. I guess Arizona might just get better with that trade actually.

Pens just roll the dice that those guys won't perform as bad as the ones they send out. But even if they are no better...they've gotta be cheaper? Which means JR can try further trading or postseason signings.

Basically. If you're gonna have a bad team, you better not be at 73mil on salary cap.

I get a laugh out of the analytics nerd that runs that team that decided Strome was a better pick than Marner because of zone entries.

Lol...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sprong for Strome is 1000% the type of move the Penguins should be making, even if it doesn't pan out, Strome's upside is way higher than anyone else you have that is NHL ready right now. I think people are writing him off way too early.

I'm not sure how far off just swapping Maatta, Rust and Sprong for Goligoski, Perlini and Strome is, to be honest.

 

[EightyOne]

Holy shot Strome at 3.3? For 15pts in 45 games??

Good lord.

Maybe he could blow up with our aging stars??

Edit: wait...he's a ~$900k cap hit. That's fine. The AAV is over three.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I don't think this is a justification, though. Rutherford ****ed up by not having good enough center depth last year, but the response to that shouldn't be to go crazy on your centers the next year. He just took it from one extreme to the other by deciding to do that.

I can't disagree with YOU here. I'm just trying to paint the picture for JR's reasoning, not that I necessarily agree with it

I haven't seen any indication that the plan was for Brassard to split time as the 3C and winger. The plan has seemed to be "let's see what Brassard can do on the wing", there was never a plan to play him significant time there unless it worked in the early stages. $2.1 million isn't a bargain for a guy who's spending significant time as the 4C, it's just not. Even if that was the plan, for him to get half of his time at 3C, that's not worth worth $2 million.

We'll disagree bc I rememeber there being a ton of talk over the summer for Brass to play a handful of mins with Sid. The consequence to such deployment is: "who is going to run 3C if you do that?". Well the obvious answer is RS. Furthermore the Pens dogded a bullet in the reg season when Sid/Geno essentially played all the games without a significant injury, RS was another hedging for this year.

"He wasn't someone they were satisfied with as the 3C before acquiring Brassard last year"

You're cutting off the point of what I was saying. If they weren't satisfied with him as the 3C last year, to the point where they spent big assets on acquiring Brassard, why is that going to change going forward? And you're still assuming that Sheahan would have wanted to stick around after spending a significant portion of the year before as the 4C, why wouldn't he try to get an actual 3C contract from a team that wants to play him full time as a 3C?

You're right- no one could predict what RS wanted to do as a FA. But the carrot for the Pens would be: hey Brass is gone and you'll have a larger role here.

I just inherently disagree with the solution of "paying your 4C $2 million a year" based on these justifications. JR screwing up the year before isn't a justification for making Sheahan a $2 million 4C. The uncertainty around Brassard isn't a justification for re-signing Sheahan, when you already didn't view him as 3C quality the year before.

I'm unsure if you remember but just before they traded for Brass the Pens and RS at 3C were absolutely ROLLING. Seemed that RS had finally had some linemates that played to his strengths. Seemed like he had found a home, then Brass came in

Let's just say that RS is a 3.5C. Not quite the 3C you want as a contender, but more than adequate at 4C. With that in mind I do believe he's a value at his price tag.

Note that I'm not a member of the RS fanclub here. His recent play deserved a benching. Just pointing out his re-signing was appluaded by many here and rightfully so.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Holy shot Strome at 3.3? For 15pts in 45 games??

Good lord.

Maybe he could blow up with our aging stars??

No, he's still on his ELC. Ryan Strome is at $3.3 million, Dylan Strome still has 2 more ELC years.