Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Every time I refresh, I panic.

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Skinner also forgets where he's getting those points from and why he's benefiting. So many players like him, have idiot agents that price their player off a team he's a good fit on, only to go elsewhere, be terrible, then end up making less because of it.

Absolutely no team in their right mind is going to give him 9-9.5m. Definitely not Buffalo. They just gave Eichel a 10m/yr contract cap hit wise. All of this is because of that absolutely ridiculous Evander Kane deal. That screwed the salaries all up again, it takes one idiot and an idiotic team to do this.

Because right after, JVR signed for the same amount.

Yeah honestly if I'm a player like Skinner I dunno how much I WANT to be given a contract like that. Like... don't mistake me, as a player you have to get that money. It's a business and these guys rightfully have to look out for themselves. But the guy has hit 60 points only twice in all his years in the league. He finally gets some support, like you said and now he wants to cash out? A lot of the time players like that return to their level and find themselves a constant source of trade and/or buyout rumors and spend years bouncing from team to team. Turn those 9 upside down and be happy you're finally on a team that can give you some help instead of Jordan "What's A Decent Pass?" Staal.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I would love to think so, my friend. But I think Geno is, at best, on autopilot right now. Absolutely no help at ES... team is in shambles. His confidence seems extremely low and frustration extremely high. Honestly I'm impressed he's holding it together even this much.

Ultimately I think you're right. As BMac points out, it only makes sense that he'd want to see the team with his best player back in the lineup and how much that changes the dynamic, if at all. But JR is certainly not known for his restraint.

As for Guentzel? A month ago I'd have written a paragraph++ explaining why that's a really bad idea. Now? Eh... go for it. We all know what he's done in the playoffs but he's been miserable this season and there are like two guys total who should be safe.

I like Jake, so it makes me kind of sick to think this team might trade him. He's struggling on a team with more than half its roster struggling, to me that's a sign you don't just point fingers at a guy like him to single him out when there are plenty of others guilty of the same troubles.

You'd also better be hoping we get a damn good young player back for a team that absolutely loves a Jake Guentzel type of player.

Jake is 24, at the moment he has 6 goals and 6 assists in 18 games. That's a 55pt pace.

JR would be making an epic mistake moving Guentzel, he would absolutely need to win that trade about as badly as that Niskanen + Neal for Goligoski deal.

 

[EightyOne]

I thought JR might wait to trade till the break after CBJ, but, I think panic is setting in as the people outside of Pittsburgh are starting to go "hmmmmm" more and more.

If they lose tonight, might be new faces by the time Dallas rolls into town weds.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah honestly if I'm a player like Skinner I dunno how much I WANT to be given a contract like that. Like... don't mistake me, as a player you have to get that money. It's a business and these guys rightfully have to look out for themselves. But the guy has hit 60 points only twice in all his years in the league. He finally gets some support, like you said and now he wants to cash out? A lot of the time players like that return to their level and find themselves a constant source of trade and/or buyout rumors and spend years bouncing from team to team. Turn those 9 upside down and be happy you're finally on a team that can give you some help instead of Jordan "What's A Decent Pass?" Staal.

Skinner's base is going to be 7m. That much is obvious just based on what JVR and Kane got. He's going to get 7m at least, but aiming for 9? That's when you're pushing it and basically saying fit doesn't matter to me, money does more than anything.

Maybe they'll settle for 7.5m/yr for 8yrs or something and this is just a horrific negotiation tactic, but jeez, if his camp is 100% aiming for 9. Then Toronto is beyond f***ed.

Marner is making a case right now for 7m+ with the year he's having as well, forget Nylander, if they sign Nylander, they're going to have to move people just to keep that top 6 in tact.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

JR also made this comments on November 9th.

Since then, the team went 1-3, lost Hagelin for Pearson in the middle of that and continued to lose the last 2 with Pearson in the line-up.

I wonder what a while will be, because after he ripped into the team, Hagelin was traded when the team went 1-1 after that rant by JR. What if they lose today then again in Dallas. Still waiting on Sid?

They aren’t even making any call ups, which is the easiest thing to do and the least risky. They seem content with an aged out vet, a ghost, and a couple of no skill call ups. So I assume JR is going to try and ride this out until his best pivot is back, because he does kind of make a difference.

I think JR knows this team needs reshaped, no matter what happens in the next week or two, but I certainly don’t want him dealing out of desperation.

 

[Tom Hanks]

More important quote in there is this one:



So could be awhile given that Crosby isn’t even in the lineup yet.

Can’t wait too long. We already need to go at a 113 point pace (Tampa lead the east with that last season) to get into 8th spot by the deadline (based on current point percentages).

 

[Empoleon8771]

First of all, goals are only one element of production, and any defense of Sheary focuses solely on that one thing because his overall production has been underwhelming since '16-'17.

It's almost like goals are the most important thing that matters, because you actually win games based on goals. You know that thing Sheary is good at? I'll say it again, 6>0. You can keep doing whatever mental gymnastics you want, but 6>0.

Second, think about what key bit of context distinguishes Sheary from the others...oh yeah, it's that Sheary's the only one who's regularly played with a superstar. Whaddya know!

Today I learned that:

1. The Penguins don't have superstar center, while the Sabres do
2. Rust, Hagelin, Brassard and Sprong have never played with a superstar center

Like hell, even if you had a point, to say that Sheary is the only one who has regularly played with superstars? That's just an intentional lie, like come the hell on. You're seriously going to say with a straight face that none of Rust, Hagelin, Brassard or Sprong have played regularly with superstars? Hell, you can even include Sheahan in that group, who plays regularly with Kessel. Any sort of credibility you arguments may have go right down the ****ter when you just say blatantly incorrect BS like that.

But this year, the tiny one-dimensional forward with every offensive advantage is on pace for 40 points instead of 30. He's hit '16-'17 Kunitz territory only without the defense or physicality...ooohh.

And Daniel Sprong is 2015 Craig Adams without the defense or physicality....oooh.

Dude, your obsession with Sprong/your stupid hatred towards Sheary is just making you spew out pure and utter garbage. Like all of your posts on Sheary are just grade A garbage. If you're just going to make crap up and perform absurd mental gymnastics about him, just spare everyone else and don't post about him. It's ridiculous.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

They aren’t even making any call ups, which is the easiest thing to do and the least risky. So I assume JR is going to try and ride this out until his best pivot is back, because he does kind of make a difference.

I think JR knows this team needs reshaped, no matter what happens in the next week or two, but I certainly don’t want him dealing out of desperation.

The call ups they made are the worst possible call ups you would make to "spark a team" that is stunted with scoring goals.

Imagine we have better options (we do) and this team picks the ones that are the most stunted offensively as their call ups. Grant hasn't been much in his time up, Wilson is an abomination outside of some fun Tom Hanks memes, and ZAR is someone people have quickly soured on.

Yet, no mention of Lafferty, Johnson, Blueger, Prow, or even Angello or DiPauli as call ups. Why?

Also, the coach picks who is called up, do they not? Wilson, Aston-Reese, and Grant are THE EXACT kind of guys Sully would call up. Remember when we had to see his toy, Kevin Porter, get moved to literally never see that trash on this team ever again?

Now he has 3.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I like Jake, so it makes me kind of sick to think this team might trade him. He's struggling on a team with more than half its roster struggling, to me that's a sign you don't just point fingers at a guy like him to single him out when there are plenty of others guilty of the same troubles.

You'd also better be hoping we get a damn good young player back for a team that absolutely loves a Jake Guentzel type of player.

Jake is 24, at the moment he has 6 goals and 6 assists in 18 games. That's a 55pt pace.

JR would be making an epic mistake moving Guentzel, he would absolutely need to win that trade about as badly as that Niskanen + Neal for Goligoski deal.

I mean... I don't even know how much I disagree with you. I know I shouldn't be so up and down but we're talking about a guy who was basically on my untouchable list at the top of this season. And you're right that in a vacuum his numbers are OK. But I just think this losing streak has guys up in the FO really questioning both the fit and chemistry of this forward group which frankly has some validity. There are no good "home base" or "go-to" options on this team up front. Even Guentzel and Crosby have looked ineffective this season and honestly it's mostly on Jake. His work rate just doesn't seem good, to me. Plus JR is trigger happy, Guentzel is on an expiring contract and likely looking at a big raise and might be one of the few guys with some value even with that whole expiring contract thing I just mentioned.

Then of course there is the fact that JR himself has made a trainwreck nightmare shitshow out of this defense and how heavily that plays into how the forwards look.

I dunno. It's a mess, man.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I would love to think so, my friend. But I think Geno is, at best, on autopilot right now. Absolutely no help at ES... team is in shambles. His confidence seems extremely low and frustration extremely high. Honestly I'm impressed he's holding it together even this much.

Ultimately I think you're right. As BMac points out, it only makes sense that he'd want to see the team with his best player back in the lineup and how much that changes the dynamic, if at all. But JR is certainly not known for his restraint.

As for Guentzel? A month ago I'd have written a paragraph++ explaining why that's a really bad idea. Now? Eh... go for it. We all know what he's done in the playoffs but he's been miserable this season and there are like two guys total who should be safe.

I just wanna point out that even with the Pens' cruddy start and Guentzel being moved around the line-up, he's still on pace for 27 goals and 54 points (both career highs), and 4th among our forwards in scoring.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It's almost like goals are the most important thing that matters, because you actually win games based on goals. You know that thing Sheary is good at? I'll say it again, 6>0. You can keep doing whatever mental gymnastics you want, but 6>0.



Today I learned that:

1. The Penguins don't have superstar center, while the Sabres do
2. Rust, Hagelin, Brassard and Sprong have never played with a superstar center

Like hell, even if you had a point, to say that Sheary is the only one who has regularly played with superstars? That's just an intentional lie, like come the hell on. You're seriously going to say with a straight face that none of Rust, Hagelin, Brassard or Sprong have played regularly with superstars? Hell, you can even include Sheahan in that group, who plays regularly with Kessel. Any sort of credibility you arguments may have go right down the ****ter when you just say blatantly incorrect BS like that.



And Daniel Sprong is 2015 Craig Adams without the defense or physicality....oooh.

Dude, your obsession with Sprong/your stupid hatred towards Sheary is just making you spew out pure and utter garbage. Like all of your posts on Sheary are just grade A garbage. If you're just going to make crap up and perform absurd mental gymnastics about him, just spare everyone else and don't post about him. It's ridiculous.

The more annoying thing is that Brassard, Rust, and Hagelin have spent a boat load of time with Crosby/Malkin and Sprong got 1 shift.

1 f***ing shift. Yet how many goals did Rust and Hagelin score in that top 6? Brassard? After how many f***ing minutes?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Can’t wait too long. We already need to go at a 113 point pace (Tampa lead the east with that last season) to get into 8th spot by the deadline (based on current point percentages).

They need a 6-7 game win streak to get them back on track, but deals usually take awhile to come together, even when a GM is in semi desperation mode like JR.

That’s why I keep saying do some low risk stuff and swap out Grant and ZAR for some more speed and skill in WBS. Waive Sheahan, let him think his game over in WBS for awhile also. No one is claiming him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The more annoying thing is that Brassard, Rust, and Hagelin have spent a boat load of time with Crosby/Malkin and Sprong got 1 shift.

1 ****ing shift. Yet how many goals did Rust and Hagelin score in that top 6? Brassard? After how many ****ing minutes?

Sprong played regularly with Crosby last year, plus he has had more shifts with Crosby this year too. I don't disagree with what you're saying, especially when it comes to Rust, but Sprong has played with Crosby in the past. About a third of his ice time in the last 2 years has been with Sid.

While we're on the topic of who has played with Crosby, only a little over half of Sheary's ice time last season was with Crosby. He played 52.5% of his ice time with Crosby and 47.5% of his ice time without Crosby last year. I just find it funny how Sprong's 33% of his ice time with Crosby is "never playing with superstars", but Sheary's 52.5% of his ice time with Crosby is "regularly playing with superstars".

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I just wanna point out that even with the Pens' cruddy start and Guentzel being moved around the line-up, he's still on pace for 27 goals and 54 points (both career highs), and 4th among our forwards in scoring.

And I just want to point out they are on the verge of losing TEN STRAIGHT GAMES.

NOTHING is or should be off the table at this point. Barring two guys. Nothing. They absolutely don't have the luxury of sitting around waiting for these guys just to "get it."

It's not that I "hate Guentzel" -- I am just riffing off of what the team is saying.

EDIT: 10 out of last 11. Still completely unacceptable.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's almost like goals are the most important thing that matters, because you actually win games based on goals. You know that thing Sheary is good at? I'll say it again, 6>0. You can keep doing whatever mental gymnastics you want, but 6>0.

Keep ignoring the context.

Today I learned that:

1. The Penguins don't have superstar center, while the Sabres do
2. Rust, Hagelin, Brassard and Sprong have never played with a superstar center

Like hell, even if you had a point, to say that Sheary is the only one who has regularly played with superstars? That's just an intentional lie, like come the hell on. You're seriously going to say with a straight face that none of Rust, Hagelin, Brassard or Sprong have played regularly with superstars? Hell, you can even include Sheahan in that group, who plays regularly with Kessel. Any sort of credibility you arguments may have go right down the ****ter when you just say blatantly incorrect BS like that.

Hagelin's gone, and I pointed Rust out earlier. Brassard is a CENTER. And Sprong hasn't seen any time with a superstar this year.

So like I said earlier, the only one of our roster players who's played regularly with a superstar and been outperformed by Sheary is Rust, who's admittedly blown this year. This is not a good hill to die on.

And Daniel Sprong is 2015 Craig Adams without the defense or physicality....oooh.

Dude, your obsession with Sprong/your stupid hatred towards Sheary is just making you spew out pure and utter garbage. Like all of your posts on Sheary are just grade A garbage. If you're just going to make crap up and perform absurd mental gymnastics about him, just spare everyone else and don't post about him. It's ridiculous.

Except that's not true. Sprong actually produces with the time he has.

Pining for Shearry has to be the dumbest hill to die on. He's a nothing.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I didn't want Sheary to be the one traded, I think I argued until I just couldn't argue anymore, about the fact that his ES goals would be sorely missed and that he was far more important to this team's depth than the people that hated him would ever admit to.

He's doing what he did here, in Buffalo, to no surprise to the ones of us that defended him. It sucks, but man this fan base loves to trash anyone that gets traded away, severely. I have never felt that way (outside of Sutter, Sutter is garbage, anyone that wants Sutter back should be permanently banned from the internet) about players that get moved. I am more annoyed with our return, sure, but the guys we lose, unless they're like Craig Adams type of bad, meh...

I still hope Kuhnhackl, Sundqvist, and others do very well for their teams.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

And I just want to point out they are on the verge of losing TEN STRAIGHT GAMES.

NOTHING is or should be off the table at this point. Barring two guys. Nothing. They absolutely don't have the luxury of sitting around waiting for these guys just to "get it."

It's not that I "hate Guentzel" -- I am just riffing off of what the team is saying.

EDIT: 10 out of last 11. Still completely unacceptable.

Well, like 4...not 10. But yeah, 10 out of the last 11 like your edit. Still doesn't justfiy moving Guentzel.

Because if you move Guentzel and he tears it up and the return we have struggles under Sullivan, you just figured out, in the most round about dumb f*** way that you traded away a fine young talent and the problem all along was your f***ing pigheaded coach. That would be enough for me to want to see JR publicly destroy Sullivan.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Sprong played regularly with Crosby last year, plus he has had more shifts with Crosby this year too. I don't disagree with what you're saying, especially when it comes to Rust, but Sprong has played with Crosby in the past. About a third of his ice time in the last 2 years has been with Sid.

While we're on the topic of who has played with Crosby, only a little over half of Sheary's ice time last season was with Crosby. He played 52.5% of his ice time with Crosby and 47.5% of his ice time without Crosby last year. I just find it funny how Sprong's 33% of his ice time with Crosby is "never playing with superstars", but Sheary's 52.5% of his ice time with Crosby is "regularly playing with superstars".

Are you counting pre-season with Crosby? I count regular season. I don't recall Sprong ever playing with Sid in the regular season this year.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

They need a 6-7 game win streak to get them back on track, but deals usually take awhile to come together, even when a GM is in semi desperation mode like JR.

That’s why I keep saying do some low risk stuff and swap out Grant and ZAR for some more speed and skill in WBS. Waive Sheahan, let him think his game over in WBS for awhile also. No one is claiming him.

They had that Gm meeting after the HHOF thing, I feel like a lot of GM's plant a seed at that point and water it all throughout the season.

JR is old school, he's definitely sent out his feelers.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Keep ignoring the context.

Context doesn't help you put pucks in the back of the net. And you're really going to bring up that point when you keep ignoring that Sprong has played with Crosby for a lot of his last 2 years?

Hagelin's gone, and I pointed Rust out earlier. Brassard is a CENTER. And Sprong hasn't seen any time with a superstar this year.

On Brassard, he played a lot with Crosby this year and has played regularly with Kessel too. Sprong has had 33% of his ice time in the last 2 years with Crosby.

So like I said earlier, the only one of our roster players who's played regularly with a superstar and been outperformed by Sheary is Rust, who's admittedly blown this year. This is not a good hill to die on.

I like how Sheary's 52.5% ice time with Crosby last year is "regularly playing with superstar centers", yet no mention of how Sprong has 33% of his ice time with Crosby in the last 2 years.

Except that's not true. Sprong actually produces with the time he has.

Pining for Shearry has to be the dumbest hill to die on. He's a nothing.

Pining for Sprong has to be the dumbest hill to die on. He's a nothing player.

See? I can say stupid things too. Like come on WC, this is just pure garbage. You're letting your absurd bias make completely asinine posts and arguments.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The call ups they made are the worst possible call ups you would make to "spark a team" that is stunted with scoring goals.

Imagine we have better options (we do) and this team picks the ones that are the most stunted offensively as their call ups. Grant hasn't been much in his time up, Wilson is an abomination outside of some fun Tom Hanks memes, and ZAR is someone people have quickly soured on.

Yet, no mention of Lafferty, Johnson, Blueger, Prow, or even Angello or DiPauli as call ups. Why?

Also, the coach picks who is called up, do they not? Wilson, Aston-Reese, and Grant are THE EXACT kind of guys Sully would call up. Remember when we had to see his toy, Kevin Porter, get moved to literally never see that trash on this team ever again?

Now he has 3.

All of those guys are playing well in WBS right now, and J Bomb even mentioned their names as well as next in line.

They just have an obsession with ZAR and I’ve been saying since last year he is basically AHL quality. It’s baffiling.

If you are so desperate for a power fwd type, get Angello up. He’s been hot all season, plays a heavy game, is way bigger than ZAR, and he can actually skate.

As for Grant, he got his chance, he’s shown zilch as well.

Both of these guys just waste time until the next shift, and they can’t afford anymore passengers. They need guys who will generate energy and scoring chances, and keep momentum going from line to line.

They had that Gm meeting after the HHOF thing, I feel like a lot of GM's plant a seed at that point and water it all throughout the season.

JR is old school, he's definitely sent out his feelers.

I’m sure he has, but I can tell you for sure that he was trying to move Sprong and apparently he hasn’t yet.

So if he’s not even moving a guy his coach really wants gone, what’s that tell you about the market?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Well, like 4...not 10. But yeah, 10 out of the last 11 like your edit. Still doesn't justfiy moving Guentzel.

Because if you move Guentzel and he tears it up and the return we have struggles under Sullivan, you just figured out, in the most round about dumb **** way that you traded away a fine young talent and the problem all along was your ****ing pigheaded coach. That would be enough for me to want to see JR publicly destroy Sullivan.

Right. Again... I don't want them to do it. I'd much rather they actually start like, I dunno... making some good decisions from behind the bench. I'm just saying don't be shocked. Like Peat pointed out, it would line up with some things the team is saying. And Guentzel has some value along with a big raise coming.

In the end I think they understand they need to hold on to SOMETHING for the future. But then again I often wonder how much thought, if any, the team actually gives to that. The future, I mean.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

All of those guys are playing well in WBS right now, and J Bomb even mentioned their names as well as next in line.

They just have an obsession with ZAR and I’ve been saying since last year he is basically AHL quality. It’s baffiling.

If you are so desperate for a power fwd type, get Angello up. He’s been hot all season, plays a heavy game, is way bigger than ZAR, and he can actually skate.

As for Grant, he got his chance, he’s shown zilch as well.

Both of these guys just waste time until the next shift, and they can’t afford anymore passengers. They need guys who will generate energy and scoring chances, and keep momentum going from line to line.

I like how you ignored Wilson, lol...

I, too, like to pretend he doesn't exist.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Are you counting pre-season with Crosby? I count regular season. I don't recall Sprong ever playing with Sid in the regular season this year.

No, I'm talking about the regular season. Sprong has played about 8 minutes with Crosby this year. It's certainly not much, it's only about 8-10 shifts, but he has played with him somewhat. I specifically remember that Simon-Crosby-Sprong did get a couple shifts here and there this season.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No, I'm talking about the regular season. Sprong has played about 8 minutes with Crosby this year. It's certainly not much, it's only about 8-10 shifts, but he has played with him somewhat. I specifically remember that Simon-Crosby-Sprong did get a couple shifts here and there this season.

I don't remember that at all. I remember him having 1 shift with Malkin, showing the kind of thing that made you drool for more and then as usual, benched for the rest of the 3rd period.