Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Every time I refresh, I panic.

[Riptide]

For good reason. The only time he got something Pens-related wrong, it was because Morehouse lied to him.

Could you remind me again... which one was this?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Mckenzie is the only guy I believe anymore when it comes to this stuff.

Well, yeah, Bob is the only guy I trust and I believe he has a solid relationship with JR too so you know he understands JR better than most.

I'm more worried now about who we might lose now before things get really bad and we never really needed to move that player before someone else could come in and fix things with what we already have.

 

[Son Goku]

Well, yeah, Bob is the only guy I trust and I believe he has a solid relationship with JR too so you know he understands JR better than most.

I'm more worried now about who we might lose now before things get really bad and we never really needed to move that player before someone else could come in and fix things with what we already have.

It's always the risk you take thata for sure. I don't think we'd miss Maatta all that much IMO. i'm just hoping he doesn't go overboard and trade a guy like Letang or even Murray despite his struggles.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It's always the risk you take thata for sure. I don't think we'd miss Maatta all that much IMO. i'm just hoping he doesn't go overboard and trade a guy like Letang or even Murray despite his struggles.

Murray is where I will disagree...

He gave us 2 amazing years with elite numbers even with that glove hand, then last year he stunk, this year he's stunk even more than last year...if the Pens are not willing to handle him correctly (which I mean...) then I hope this team is open to moving him if only there was a deal available.

At this point, there might not be anyone willing to take him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hold on to your butts.

I could see him taking some extraordinary measures to try and find a way to try and spark this thing and get it going, because time’s a wastin here.

McKenzie on Rutherford: “I’m not sure he’s finished dealing yet”

The fact that it's Bobby Mac saying that scares the **** out of me. That's basically coming right from JR.

At this point, I think JR would be smart to find this year's version of Vokoun as a safety net for Murray. Ryan Miller might be that, but I don't think the Ducks would trade him to the East. Any good moves JR makes will be negated if Murray isn't playing well.

 

[Riptide]

At this point, there might not be anyone willing to take him [Murray].

lol what?

 

[Peat]

@Tom Hanks

There's currently some very good coaches sitting at home... one has to wonder if Rutherford would be willing to make that move... and how much rope those cups bought Sullivan. I wonder if there's a way to compromise in canning Recchi and getting one of them to be an assistant coach to see how things go, with the understanding that if a change is made, they'll get the gig.

Which coaches are you thinking?

I read in the last thread that Dumoulin might be a target for Anaheim. I don't know if that's true or not but I'd be 100% against it. He's our most reliable defensive defensemen. That IMO would be foolish! We need more such players, not less!

And if they aren't at that level at least someone with a modicum of skill and hockey sense who doesn't constantly feed the oppositions transition with errand passes or skates in quick sand. Nothing flashy, just a hard working consistent good first pass depth defender. Not the easiest thing to find but certainly not the hardest either.

I think people are overreading this one and would be surprised if Dumo was next guy out.

The fact that it's Bobby Mac saying that scares the **** out of me. That's basically coming right from JR.

At this point, I think JR would be smart to find this year's version of Vokoun as a safety net for Murray. Ryan Miller might be that, but I don't think the Ducks would trade him to the East. Any good moves JR makes will be negated if Murray isn't playing well.

That's assuming Murray's not the trade. I'm not sure how much value he's got at the moment, but if he's got any its no longer unthinkable.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's assuming Murray's not the trade. I'm not sure how much value he's got at the moment, but if he's got any its no longer unthinkable.

I can't see any scenario where Murray gets traded because it sounds incredibly difficult to get a better goalie than him in-season. Who are you even going to trade him for? The only teams who would trade their starting goalie are bad teams, which tend to have bad goalies.

I may be missing some names, but the only 3 legit starting goalies I can think of that were traded in-season in the last decade were Luongo, Miller and Bishop. Miller and Bishop were rentals, too. Pretty much every starter in the NHL today were either off-season acquisitions, guys that developed in their system or reclamation projects that they got in-season. I think the lone exception at this point is Luongo, and Dubnyk is the sole reclamation project acquired in-season that is still a starter.

 

[Peat]

I can't see any scenario where Murray gets traded because it sounds incredibly difficult to get a better goalie than him in-season. Who are you even going to trade him for? The only teams who would trade their starting goalie are bad teams, which tend to have bad goalies.

I may be missing some names, but the only 3 legit starting goalies I can think of that were traded in-season in the last decade were Luongo, Miller and Bishop. Miller and Bishop were rentals, too. Pretty much every starter in the NHL today were either off-season acquisitions, guys that developed in their system or reclamation projects that they got in-season. I think the lone exception at this point is Luongo, and Dubnyk is the sole reclamation project acquired in-season that is still a starter.

Well quite, and I can't say I'm expecting it, but if Rutherford's talking about drastic changes with only Sid and Geno off the table, I'm not sure Murray's an implicit inclusion to off the table either. And I think that after nearly 20 games of a new season, the question of whether he's a good goalie in bad form who'll be nigh impossible to replace or whether he's regressed to being a bad goalie who needs replacing is beginning to sound like a legit considered question; at what point do you call that?

edit: We are facing some real problems if the latter is the case mind, some real problems that are going to require a certain amount of unlikely prospect progression/dumb luck to solve. No questions there. But it does stop Murray from being untouchable.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Hold on to your butts.

I could see him taking some extraordinary measures to try and find a way to try and spark this thing and get it going, because time’s a wastin here.

McKenzie on Rutherford: “I’m not sure he’s finished dealing yet”

Watch -- my fan-fic trades come true.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Watch -- my fan-fic trades come true.

Oh god, anytime anyone uses the word "fan-fic" when it comes to the Penguins just brings back PTSD of that Sheary/Sullivan fan-fic

 

[EightyOne]

Oh god, anytime anyone uses the word "fan-fic" when it comes to the Penguins just brings back PTSD of that Sheary/Sullivan fan-fic

So...I missed that one.

And I'm glad for it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I brought this up in the thread on the trade boards, but I wonder how much of a fit Oleksiak in Anaheim would be. He helps them with their LD problem they currently have, can play either LD or RD for them when everyone is healthy and they definitely have the defensemen capable of insulating him. Having both Johnson and Oleksiak on the Penguins is redundant, and trading Oleksiak both opens a spot for a right handed defenseman and a defenseman the Penguins need more. It also clears out a good amount of cap space, since you don't have to be spending $2.1 million on your #6 defenseman.

Just a thought I was having, I think you may benefit from looking to do something like Oleksiak for Cogliano. Or maybe Oleksiak for Ritchie is a reasonable suggestion for a trade.

 

[Peat]

I brought this up in the thread on the trade boards, but I wonder how much of a fit Oleksiak in Anaheim would be. He helps them with their LD problem they currently have, can play either LD or RD for them when everyone is healthy and they definitely have the defensemen capable of insulating him. Having both Johnson and Oleksiak on the Penguins is redundant, and trading Oleksiak both opens a spot for a right handed defenseman and a defenseman the Penguins need more. It also clears out a good amount of cap space, since you don't have to be spending $2.1 million on your #6 defenseman.

Just a thought I was having, I think you may benefit from looking to do something like Oleksiak for Cogliano. Or maybe Oleksiak for Ritchie is a reasonable suggestion for a trade.

I'd already proposed that one in the same thread and got a rather short answer.

I can see it being Oleksiak though. Everyone's looking at Maatta and it makes sense, but I think Rutherford values him higher than most of the market and he's more in favour with the coaches than Oleksiak. And Oleksiak wouldn't leave Anaheim staring at their salary structure and scratching their head once Fowler and Lindholm were back...

... although there's an argument for Maatta being a guy you want in your top 4 in the right system, and I'm not sure there's one for Oleksiak.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Hold on to your butts.

I could see him taking some extraordinary measures to try and find a way to try and spark this thing and get it going, because time’s a wastin here.

McKenzie on Rutherford: “I’m not sure he’s finished dealing yet”

More important quote in there is this one:

So I think the sense of urgency with the window still open but closing in the future that he’s going to be even more aggressive. So I think he wants to see with a healthy Crosby in the lineup and Tanner Pearson in the lineup and everybody kind of being read the riot act that this is unacceptable, I think he wants to see how they respond to that - give them an opportunity.

So could be awhile given that Crosby isn’t even in the lineup yet.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah that's what stuck out to me, too.

But after they get their asses handed to them by Buffalo tonight (and I can't even remember how long it's been since I was so confident about Buffalo beating this team) making them 0-3 since the Hagelin trade, I wonder if his patience runs out.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

lol what?

Often injured, has had 2 concussions in what, 8 months, his numbers were terrible last year but a tragedy likely was the cause (one would hope), but it has bled into this year.

Even if you take into account his 1st two seasons, where he was solid in the regular season and amazing in the playoffs, the last 2 years after, he's been probably one of the worst #1's in the NHL.

1 year is usually "ok we can fix that"...

2nd year in a row is when you gotta fix it before it becomes 3, 4...5...

I'm so glad this team hasn't traded Jarry and hope they re-sign DeSmith some how. Murray needs to turn his shit around and for that to happen we need those two. But that's if this team will actually try to fix it. I feel like it took 1 bad Fleury meltdown for them to send him to a therapist and he was better for it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, let's see how patient JR is after Sheary scores 2 goals and 3 points on them tonight and they lose 5-2. I'm thinking he's not going to be feeling too patient at that point.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Side note... Skinner evidently wants 9-9.5M from Buffalo to avoid heading to market.

I understand starting high when negotiating and he's clearly having a nice season so far but holy shit. That makes Nylander's ask look downright reasonable.

 

[Peat]

Yeah that's what stuck out to me, too.

But after they get their asses handed to them by Buffalo tonight (and I can't even remember how long it's been since I was so confident about Buffalo beating this team) making them 0-3 since the Hagelin trade, I wonder if his patience runs out.

Bah. Tonight's the night. Geno hat-trick! Just you see.

...

More realistically, assuming Sid is only out for a week, I think his patience will last unless anyone changes their mind and gives him a deal he likes. And I think he's waiting for Sid to be back before getting drastic with guys like Guentzel or... well, someone else.

But now I think about it, a drastic move that's difficult with salary sounds more like Guentzel than anyone, and Rutherford's publicly criticised him. Feels obvious to me.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

More important quote in there is this one:



So could be awhile given that Crosby isn’t even in the lineup yet.

JR also made this comments on November 9th.

Since then, the team went 1-3, lost Hagelin for Pearson in the middle of that and continued to lose the last 2 with Pearson in the line-up.

I wonder what a while will be, because after he ripped into the team, Hagelin was traded when the team went 1-1 after that rant by JR. What if they lose today then again in Dallas. Still waiting on Sid?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Bah. Tonight's the night. Geno hat-trick! Just you see.

...

More realistically, assuming Sid is only out for a week, I think his patience will last unless anyone changes their mind and gives him a deal he likes. And I think he's waiting for Sid to be back before getting drastic with guys like Guentzel or... well, someone else.

But now I think about it, a drastic move that's difficult with salary sounds more like Guentzel than anyone, and Rutherford's publicly criticised him. Feels obvious to me.

I would love to think so, my friend. But I think Geno is, at best, on autopilot right now. Absolutely no help at ES... team is in shambles. His confidence seems extremely low and frustration extremely high. Honestly I'm impressed he's holding it together even this much.

Ultimately I think you're right. As BMac points out, it only makes sense that he'd want to see the team with his best player back in the lineup and how much that changes the dynamic, if at all. But JR is certainly not known for his restraint.

As for Guentzel? A month ago I'd have written a paragraph++ explaining why that's a really bad idea. Now? Eh... go for it. We all know what he's done in the playoffs but he's been miserable this season and there are like two guys total who should be safe.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Side note... Skinner evidently wants 9-9.5M from Buffalo to avoid heading to market.

I understand starting high when negotiating and he's clearly having a nice season so far but holy ****. That makes Nylander's ask look downright reasonable.

Skinner also forgets where he's getting those points from and why he's benefiting. So many players like him, have idiot agents that price their player off a team he's a good fit on, only to go elsewhere, be terrible, then end up making less because of it.

Absolutely no team in their right mind is going to give him 9-9.5m. Definitely not Buffalo. They just gave Eichel a 10m/yr contract cap hit wise. All of this is because of that absolutely ridiculous Evander Kane deal. That screwed the salaries all up again, it takes one idiot and an idiotic team to do this.

Because right after, JVR signed for the same amount.

 

[Peat]

I would love to think so, my friend. But I think Geno is, at best, on autopilot right now. Absolutely no help as ES... team is in shambles. His confidence seems extremely low and frustration extremely high. Honestly I'm impressed he's holding it together even this much.

La la la my blind optimism can't hear you.

Ultimately I think you're right. As BMac points out, it only makes sense that he'd want to see the team with his best player back in the lineup and how much that changes the dynamic, if at all. But JR is certainly not known for his restraint.

As for Guentzel? A month ago I'd have written a paragraph++ explaining why that's a really bad idea. Now? Eh... go for it. We all know what he's done in the playoffs but he's been miserable this season and there are like two guys total who should be safe.

And a month ago I'd have liked it and quoted it going "This".

And I think my argument is less "JR will be patient and restrained" and more "If he liked his trade options today, he'd have made one". Which isn't terribly encouraging when you come down to it...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So hypothetical what if scenarios count for more than actual production nowadays. Good to know.

I'll say it again, 6>0. Just because you want to arbitrarily bring up points/60, as if it's a stat that means anything, doesn't erase that fact. Sheary is actually producing, the fact that you have to rely on per 60 stats over actual raw production stats just shows how biased you are in the discussion. Since you're so obsessed with points/60, let's bring up goals/60:

Sheary: 1.18 goals/60
Sprong: 0 goals/60
Brassard: .422 goals/60
Rust: .224 goals/60
Cullen: .567 goals/60
Sheahan: .254 goals/60
Hagelin: .241 goals/60

Look at all of that amazing goal scoring that the Penguins depth players are producing. They totally don't need a guy like Sheary, who's actually capable of scoring goals. They're doing amazingly so far.

First of all, goals are only one element of production, and any defense of Sheary focuses solely on that one thing because his overall production has been underwhelming since '16-'17.

Second, think about what key bit of context distinguishes Sheary from the others...oh yeah, it's that Sheary's the only one who's regularly played with a superstar. Whaddya know!

But this year, the tiny one-dimensional forward with every offensive advantage is on pace for 40 points instead of 30. He's hit '16-'17 Kunitz territory only without the defense or physicality...ooohh.