Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Countdown to October (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

[Andy99]

So if Karlsson ends up in Tampa and Miller is part of the return for Ottawa does anyone think JR might go after Miller? I remember hearing that he offered two firsts or a first and a second for him around the deadline, so maybe he goes back after him

I like Miller better than Skinner for our needs, but not for two firsts....and someone has to go to make room for his contract...we don’t have anyone to trade with salary—at least forwards— who would not oppose a trade to OTT...we might have to find a 3-way trade to do that unless OTT wants Hags...doubtful

 

[Gurglesons]

So if Karlsson ends up in Tampa and Miller is part of the return for Ottawa does anyone think JR might go after Miller? I remember hearing that he offered two firsts or a first and a second for him around the deadline, so maybe he goes back after him

I hope not?

 

[mpp9]

So if Karlsson ends up in Tampa and Miller is part of the return for Ottawa does anyone think JR might go after Miller? I remember hearing that he offered two firsts or a first and a second for him around the deadline, so maybe he goes back after him

Wish we had offersheeted the guy a couple years ago. Rangers likely wouldn’t have matched.

We could use a productive glue type player ala Kunitz.

 

[Peat]

And we know Kessel can put up 40-50 ES points here while being integral to the PP and not needing to be with Malkin. We know Kessel can be a driving force behind a cup run on his own line. While hoping clicking with Malkin would give Patches a 20% increase of his ES production and 50% from what he did last season. Then you hope that chemistry takes his playoff performance tiers above what he’s done and that the PP is alright.

I'm not sure Kessel is integral to our PP. He's done great work but there's a lot of talent on the unit and I am dubious that it'll stop being good if he goes.

I'm equally dubious about Kessel as a 3rd line driving force; he was the lowest ES producer on his line in 15-16 and hasn't done it the play-offs since. Drove production there last regular season but hated it.

And, you know, its perfectly plausible that playing with an elite 1C rather than a 2C-level guy is going to increase Patches' ES numbers 20%. And that he's not the guy he was last season. Maybe he doesn't find that chemistry - but if he does, that'd be a big deal to this team.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

Horny yells at everyone and no one calls him a headcase.

I thought there was general consensus that Hörnqvist is absolutely mental?

Kuhnhackl said Hornqvist has developed a new pregame routine, in that he couples the yelling with a few body punches before they head out onto the ice.

After games, the necks of Hornqvist’s undershirts are routinely shredded. They don’t come like this. Hornqvist usually Hulk Hogan’s them in fits of intensity.

Patric Hornqvist's intensity is 'on another level'

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I guess I'm a little taken aback at the willingness to just sorta... shuffle Kessel along. He's been a huge part of the team since he's gotten here and up until literally this offseason, I haven't heard fans or media say one word about him being a "headcase" or whatever. Typically he seemed to be cast in a favorable or at the very least "misunderstood" light.

And for Patches? I like the player, no mistake. But frankly on a whole echelon down from Phil Kessel. That is NOT a replacement. Is there no concern over his abysmal goal droughts (two of them) last season? His overall lackluster numbers, terrible Canadiens team notwithstanding? His knee injury?

Sorry, I just don't see Patches as anything close to an acceptable replacement for Phil Kessel. And I gotta think some are sipping the Kool Aid of the very bored and very petty Pittsburgh sports media.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I mean, everyone deserves a second chance, but that doesn’t mean they should be able to play in the pinnacle league for a sport after committing felony.

If his standard of play is good enough for him to contribute and he's genuinely remorseful and working to make amends, I don't see any problem with giving him a second chance in the NHL, but YMMV.

For me, it'd be different if it were a pattern of behaviour that had been exposed and repeatedly gone unaddressed, but this has been the only mark against him, ugly as it is. It's whether people show they can change once their issues have seen the light of day that matters, IMO. I don't see much use in giving someone a scarlet letter in their field of expertise for the rest of their lives if they've genuinely changed. Doesn't really benefit anyone.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't think it's an assumption that Kessel posting his highest shooting percentage for some time while benefiting from an unusually healthy and productive power play is something of a fluke; ditto Patches' lowest shooting percentage while on a team denuded of its biggest PP weapon for most of the season. The odds on both guys reverting back towards their averages is pretty low.

I'm not trying to say I expect patches to decline. I'm saying there is no reason to expect Phil to decline before Patches though, and the closest thing we've got to evidence has shown the opposite.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Voynov is a piece of garbage. I don't care if he can play.

Him pulling on a Penguins sweater would be even more shameful to me than Matt Cooke doing the same.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

If his standard of play is good enough for him to contribute and he's genuinely remorseful and working to make amends, I don't see any problem with giving him a second chance in the NHL, but YMMV.

For me, it'd be different if it were a pattern of behaviour that had been exposed and repeatedly gone unaddressed, but this has been the only mark against him, ugly as it is. It's whether people show they can change once their issues have seen the light of day that matters, IMO. I don't see much use in giving someone a scarlet letter in their field of expertise for the rest of their lives if they've genuinely changed. Doesn't really benefit anyone.

But it wasn't the first time. When she was asked if this was the only time, she said it wasn't the first and that he becomes a monster when he drinks.

 

[Gurglesons]

I guess I'm a little taken aback at the willingness to just sorta... shuffle Kessel along. He's been a huge part of the team since he's gotten here and up until literally this offseason, I haven't heard fans or media say one word about him being a "headcase" or whatever. Typically he seemed to be cast in a favorable or at the very least "misunderstood" light.

And for Patches? I like the player, no mistake. But frankly on a whole echelon down from Phil Kessel. That is NOT a replacement. Is there no concern over his abysmal goal droughts (two of them) last season? His overall lackluster numbers, terrible Canadiens team notwithstanding? His knee injury?

Sorry, I just don't see Patches as anything close to an acceptable replacement for Phil Kessel. And I gotta think some are sipping the Kool Aid of the very bored and very petty Pittsburgh sports media.

Kessel has been great. But where the issue is, is that he can’t play with Sid, he can’t play with Malkin and the three line thing has proven to be a fluke for one off season and a little bit of the regular season.

For a team that needs to cut costs and get younger he is an obvious piece that helps with #1 acquiring pieces and # 2 a redundancy at RW.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

FWIW, I don't think the Pens would dip a toe in the Voynov public relations nightmare anyway.

 

[bigG]

Voynov is a piece of garbage. I don't care if he can play.

Him pulling on a Penguins sweater would be even more shameful to me than Matt Cooke doing the same.

but DeSmith is as equally a piece of garbage and nobody seems to care

 

[Gurglesons]

If his standard of play is good enough for him to contribute and he's genuinely remorseful and working to make amends, I don't see any problem with giving him a second chance in the NHL, but YMMV.

For me, it'd be different if it were a pattern of behaviour that had been exposed and repeatedly gone unaddressed, but this has been the only mark against him, ugly as it is. It's whether people show they can change once their issues have seen the light of day that matters, IMO. I don't see much use in giving someone a scarlet letter in their field of expertise for the rest of their lives if they've genuinely changed. Doesn't really benefit anyone.

As an HR Professional, I am able to not hire people with a history of domestic violence.

It definitely is something that can be and most likely would be done in pretty much every field outside of athletics.

 

[Ogrezilla]

he can’t play with Malkin and the three line thing has proven to be a fluke for one off season and a little bit of the regular season.

didn't he just have his most productive season while playing with Malkin and on the 3rd line? The idea that he can't play with Malkin is just silly to begin with, but he also played well with Sheahan once he got acclimated to the team. And there's really no reason to think he won't be able to play with Brassard either. The lack of chemistry thing is strange to me too. Kessel is great, and he's been great here pretty much regardless of where we put him the majority of the time.

I'm not saying there aren't legitimate reasons to trade Kessel, but his fit on the team really isn't one of them. Too many RW's and him bringing back a good return would be the reasons.

 

[Gurglesons]

but DeSmith is as equally a piece of garbage and nobody seems to care

I care. A lot.

But, Desmith’s case was much different. He served no jail time. Voynov would’ve likely faced time in prison for what he did.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Kessel has been great. But where the issue is, is that he can’t play with Sid, he can’t play with Malkin and the three line thing has proven to be a fluke for one off season and a little bit of the regular season.

For a team that needs to cut costs and get younger he is an obvious piece that helps with #1 acquiring pieces and # 2 a redundancy at RW.

I just can't agree. I really don't understand where people get the idea that he doesn't look good with Malkin. I understand that there is some awkwardness with that line -- they both badly want the puck on their stick. But they sure seem to produce a lot. As for Crosby... has it even been tried?

Honestly I never wanted Kessel toiling on the third line, anyway. It worked that one time -- great. I appreciate depth and all that but I'm of the opinion that a more traditional "shutdown" type of third line would be perfectly acceptable, as well. I've always been fine with him riding shotgun with Geno and obviously Phil feels that's a good match, as well. Why fight so hard against it?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I mean, everyone deserves a second chance

This is one of those things that sounds nice but isn’t true.

I'm not sure Kessel is integral to our PP. He's done great work but there's a lot of talent on the unit and I am dubious that it'll stop being good if he goes.

I'm equally dubious about Kessel as a 3rd line driving force; he was the lowest ES producer on his line in 15-16 and hasn't done it the play-offs since. Drove production there last regular season but hated it.

And, you know, its perfectly plausible that playing with an elite 1C rather than a 2C-level guy is going to increase Patches' ES numbers 20%. And that he's not the guy he was last season. Maybe he doesn't find that chemistry - but if he does, that'd be a big deal to this team.

Last season he was. They could ice a good PP without him but he puts it over the top and they don’t have anyone to truly replace that.

He was the force behind HBK. They had crazy chemistry but Kessel was the engine behind it. He was also the engine on whatever line he was on for the first half or so of last season. If he doesn’t like carrying a 3rd line to the point he won’t, well, they’ve got bigger problems and I don’t see Pacioretty as the answer to that.

Yeah, and I’d still take Kessel’s overall impact and playoff history.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

but DeSmith is as equally a piece of garbage and nobody seems to care

I care. And for the record, I had no idea about DeSmith's background until WELL into his Penguins tenure.

 

[Ogrezilla]

but DeSmith is as equally a piece of garbage and nobody seems to care

I haven't heard anything about DeSmith, what's his story? I feel like a lot of people really just know nothing about him, myself included.

 

[Gurglesons]

didn't he just have his most productive season while playing with Malkin and on the 3rd line? The idea that he can't play with Malkin is just silly to begin with, but he also played well with Sheahan once he got acclimated to the team. And there's really no reason to think he won't be able to play with Brassard either. The lack of chemistry thing is strange to me too. Kessel is great, and he's been great here pretty much regardless of where we put him the majority of the time.

I'm not saying there aren't legitimate reasons to trade Kessel, but his fit on the team really isn't one of them.

His most productive season with 40 PP points.

I think why people feel Malkin and Kessel are a bad fit has been covered.

He won’t play with Sid, and there is only so long you can afford 6.8 on your third line before it starts effecting the cap structure of your team.

 

[Gurglesons]

I haven't heard anything about DeSmith, what's his story? I feel like a lot of people really just know nothing about him, myself included.

He got drunk and a situation happened with his GF in college. He was dismissed from the team, basically did some community service and probation for it.

Ex-UNH goalie agrees to diversion,receive counseling, avoids jail

Obviously domestic violence is never okay. But, I think the situations are obviously a little different. That being said, I’ve been critical of the signing since day one. I do not believe athletes who are basically physical weapons should be able to play in a sport which encourages violence if they are unable to handle a relationship with another person without resorting to violence.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

As an HR Professional, I am able to not hire people with a history of domestic violence.

It definitely is something that can be and most likely would be done in pretty much every field outside of athletics.

I appreciate your professional opinion, but there are a lot of professional standards I don't agree with. They often paint with very broad strokes to avoid culpability at all costs, and I think people should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis whenever possible. The problem is that requires more work and vetting for the employer to ensure their faith isn't misplaced.

But the field we're discussing is athletics, and the employers involved have all the resources in the world to put into finding out whether a specific person is worth the risk.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's not that I'm opposed to theoretically moving Kessel. It's just that it has to be a lateral move, at worst.

I don't care how anyone tries to frame it... moving Kessel and subbing Patches makes this team worse. A downgrade.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

but DeSmith is as equally a piece of garbage and nobody seems to care

Except the charges were dismissed. The only charge he plead guilty to was disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor.