Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Cat On a Tin Roof, Dogs In a Pile

[Ryder71]

There are no long term solutions. Thats my point. Unless luck is the plan you aint getting enough talent with an extra late first or second to make a meaningful difference once the cores window closes. Those assets are much more maximized in a deal for a good player right now.

And I'm on board with that provided the player in question is signed long term.

 

[Tom Hanks]

yes! our stars are getting older. we need a constant flow of new and younger players. while its worked in the past, we are at the point that the one player fix is no longer an option. with the cap you can't just keep adding high priced player's. just think if we only had a "ready" center and a good defense man we could bring up on the cheep. our stars aren't going to last forever. and we've seen this yr. what it looks like with them not at their high level of play.....and us with nobody to replace or help them out.

The picks we traded helped us win cups and we’ve still had 6 selections in the first 3 rounds for the last 3 years. We haven’t stopped drafting.

We also attract the undrafted guys because of our situation and currently have some guys in WBS who may turn into something (include Simon in that).

 

[Ryder71]

Prospect goalies have little value on the trade market... people want proven goalies... its not really worth dealing any of them yet

I'm not sure what value GUS has currently. I would use him in a package deal. But I'm certainly not a proponent of just giving him away. But as I mentioned prior, a young team like BUF or FLA might be intrigued by him. Package him with another asset or two and see what you can get. If it doesn't garner much you keep him.

 

[Ryder71]

The picks we traded helped us win cups and we’ve still had 6 selections in the first 3 rounds for the last 3 years. We haven’t stopped drafting.

We also attract the undrafted guys because of our situation and currently have some guys in WBS who may turn into something (include Simon in that).

I understand your point but again the dynamics are starting to change and the same philosophy and mentality might not work anymore.

 

[The Old Master]

There are no long term solutions. Thats my point. Unless luck is the plan you aint getting enough talent with an extra late first or second to make a meaningful difference once the cores window closes. Those assets are much more maximized in a deal for a good player right now.

luck is always a factor. if you have the picks,(assets) it's not that hard to move up. also with a deep draft it's not that big of a reach to think you might get a player that could come in and play. if not now, in a yr. imo ....ya, it would take a little luck. every thing we can/would do will take a little luck.

 

[Ryder71]

Yeah, that's yet another variable to consider. Isn't this suppose to be a pretty deep draft? One of the better over the last seven or eight years?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The longer this goes, the more it seems to me that if we do add a legit 3C, it's going to be coming from Ottawa.

Ottawa's the 3rd worst team in the league so they're essentially out of the playoffs already, Melnyk's cheap and will likely want to sell off some assets, and the Sens have a couple centers who could rejuvenate our 3rd line in Pageau and Brassard.

 

[The Old Master]

The picks we traded helped us win cups and we’ve still had 6 selections in the first 3 rounds for the last 3 years. We haven’t stopped drafting.

We also attract the undrafted guys because of our situation and currently have some guys in WBS who may turn into something (include Simon in that).

true, but that was then, this is now. the more tickets you hold the better chance you have.

 

[The Old Master]

The longer this goes, the more it seems to me that if we do add a legit 3C, it's going to be coming from Ottawa.

Ottawa's the 3rd worst team in the league so they're essentially out of the playoffs already, Melnyk's cheap and will likely want to sell off some assets, and the Sens have a couple centers who could rejuvenate our 3rd line in Pageau and Brassard.

the top lw that I would like to get (kane, chucky) would cost(maybe more than I would pay).....there are no centers (I really want) on the market. so you could be right about pageau / brassard.

 

[Tom Hanks]

true, but that was then, this is now. the more tickets you hold the better chance you have.

That’s true but a good trade is a good trade. We won’t trade all our picks. If we start someone this year they probably won’t help until 2020 or 2021. I’m happy for JR to continue with what he’s done (didn’t like the Reaves trade though).

We will not be in a position where we have a Sid and Geno probably ever again. Win now rebuild later.

 

[chethejet]

Shero went for a quick fix that cost the team the next two years in pics. Maybe GMJR learned after trading that pick for Perron, that blending the current with the future is still important. The idea that bringing in high cost contractual players to offset things is not going to work. Increased cap helps but it is all relative. I think Hornqvist signing will be a costly proposition and moving him for a quality 3rd line center with some term makes sense to me. Pens traded players before who were players who were popular and filled a bigger need in doing so. Can't believe no one can't be traded. Yes Sid and Geno are simply Pens for life. But Kessel was traded, Hornqvist was traded. Sprong may change the dynamic and allow for some trades from strength for a center and LW.

 

[Ryder71]

We will not be in a position where we have a Sid and Geno probably ever again. Win now rebuild later.

Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? I' think we should take a more moderate to slightly conservative approach. If we're giving up high picks and such it has to be for a player who has term, UNLESS we're trading a rental for a rental. I don't want an Erat for Forsberg type of fiasco. The Reaves trade is another example.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't see that being an issue for a couple years at least. MM is a two time cup champ (who does have injury issues however). And Jarry is just now cementing himself as a solid and reliable goalie at this level. They're 23 and 22 years old. This could be a great tandem for several years to come. GUS is a luxury, and one we can and should exploit in the right deal.

That's the point in not having to move Gus. But what happens then, after those couple years?

Murray already has a decent contract now, and Jarry's ELC is up after this season while improving his status quo. Jarry will get a decent second contract (2.0+) and in two years Murray's will be up.

What do you do?

You are not getting several years out of them unless Jarry sells himself short at the table.

 

[pensfan71]

I'd rather keep the 1st as well...isn't the draft supposed to be fairly deep? Who knows if we pull off another steal in the draft. Unless that 1st is going for Kane or Hoffman, preferably Kane, we should keep it

 

[billybudd]

The longer this goes, the more it seems to me that if we do add a legit 3C, it's going to be coming from Ottawa.

Ottawa's the 3rd worst team in the league so they're essentially out of the playoffs already, Melnyk's cheap and will likely want to sell off some assets, and the Sens have a couple centers who could rejuvenate our 3rd line in Pageau and Brassard.

'Melnyk' is the Canadian word for 'Nutting.'

Pirates joke

 

[Tom Hanks]

Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? I' think we should take a more moderate to slightly conservative approach. If we're giving up high picks and such it has to be for a player who has term, UNLESS we're trading a rental for a rental. I don't want an Erat for Forsberg type of fiasco. The Reaves trade is another example.

Winning now and trading 1 pick in the first 3 rounds isn’t really extreme.

High picks for non-UFA’s I agree with. I think you might be arguing something that’s not there.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? I' think we should take a more moderate to slightly conservative approach. If we're giving up high picks and such it has to be for a player who has term, UNLESS we're trading a rental for a rental. I don't want an Erat for Forsberg type of fiasco. The Reaves trade is another example.

Terrible comparison. One was one of the worst trades ever (Erat). Reaves was a solid addition to a two-time championship club. How's Oskar doing these days???

But, I agree with your premise.

Personally, I don't want us to sacrifice much in terms of youth or picks right now. JR needs to make shrewd, calculated moves here. If the cost of adding a center is too high, and it undoubtedly is, then add a winger. Guentzel is killing penalties now, and is being used in far more situations than as merely a sniper. And he is talented enough to get the job done...at least until we find a more permanent solution. And maybe he IS the permanent solution.

- Letang can be moved if we can get Karlsson out of Ottawa.

- Hornqvist can be moved for futures, futures that we can use elsewhere.

- Hagelin may have some value to teams with awful PK numbers. Edmonton, for example, is on pace for an historically bad PK percentage this season. I heard recently that only the Kings of the late 70's had a PK percentage as bad as Edmonton's current number. Offer them Hagelin and Rowney, maybe they'll bite.

- Hunwick could be included in any deal. He seems to be the clear No. 7 defenseman right now, and I would much rather keep Cole if we had the money.

- Malkin needs a winger for his line. He does not play well with Hornqvist, and Hagelin is a black hole.

- DO NOT trade Sprong, PLEASE JR.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

'Melnyk' is the Canadian word for 'Nutting.'

Pirates joke

I don't know from baseball, but I immediately regret Google Imaging that man.

 

[pensfan71]

Terrible comparison. One was one of the worst trades ever (Erat). Reaves was a solid addition to a two-time championship club. How's Oskar doing these days???

But, I agree with your premise.

Personally, I don't want us to sacrifice much in terms of youth or picks right now. JR needs to make shrewd, calculated moves here. If the cost of adding a center is too high, and it undoubtedly is, then add a winger. Guentzel is killing penalties now, and is being used in far more situations than as merely a sniper. And he is talented enough to get the job done...at least until we find a more permanent solution. And maybe he IS the permanent solution.

- Letang can be moved if we can get Karlsson out of Ottawa.

- Hornqvist can be moved for futures, futures that we can use elsewhere.

- Hagelin may have some value to teams with awful PK numbers. Edmonton, for example, is on pace for an historically bad PK percentage this season. I heard recently that only the Kings of the late 70's had a PK percentage as bad as Edmonton's current number. Offer them Hagelin and Rowney, maybe they'll bite.

- Hunwick could be included in any deal. He seems to be the clear No. 7 defenseman right now, and I would much rather keep Cole if we had the money.

- Malkin needs a winger for his line. He does not play well with Hornqvist, and Hagelin is a black hole.

- DO NOT trade Sprong, PLEASE JR.

We're not getting Karlsson, no way. Besides even if we did, he's going to want 11-12M and that screws us. If we're moving Letang, we need to cut bait with Hunwick as well. That way we can potentially bring in a top 2/4 that can move the puck, actually has a hard slapper and can get the puck on net. My honest to god hope is Faulk, but both are in the same division

Dumo-Faulk (or someone similar)
Maatta-O
Cole-Schultz

This is something we can work with.

Like I've said before, if Horny is moved, that role better damn be filled by Evander Kane. So you could use those futures and send them over to Buffalo.

Did not know that about Edmonton, but can they swallow that cap hit? Bc if they can we sure as hell need to be on the phone with them.

Geno does need a new winger and yes Sprong better not be moved

 

[WayneSid9987]

JR, since he's been here, likes to acquire guys with term.
Perron, turning him into Hags, Daley, Bonino, Lovejoy...all were not UFA's at the time.
Only marquee UFA's i know he's gone after are Hanzal and Shattenkirk and didn't want to pay the very expensive price tags.
I don't think he's desperate enough(he knows this team needs longer term pieces/has 2 Cups in the bag already) to go full Shero on the spending.
There'll be a balance of keeping picks/spending high ones only if it's really worth it longer term.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Trading any of the goalies right now would probably be premature, however that doesn't mean you can't do it. I think you trade Jarry in the 2020 offseason (when Seattle joins the NHL), because you'll get an absolutely massive return for him at that point. That means that the goalie tandem for the rest of this year and the next 2 years is Murray-Jarry. Do you think you need Gustavsson enough to keep him? Or do you think that maybe D'Orio could be a legit goalie prospect, at least good enough where you can trade Gustavsson? Do you plan on drafting another goalie this summer?

I don't think the Penguins need Gustavsson and I have a really tough time seeing him ever becoming the starting goalie here. For the same reason that I don't think Jarry will supplant Murray, I don't think Gustavsson will ever supplant Jarry and Murray.

 

[The Old Master]

Trading any of the goalies right now would probably be premature, however that doesn't mean you can't do it. I think you trade Jarry in the 2020 offseason (when Seattle joins the NHL), because you'll get an absolutely massive return for him at that point. That means that the goalie tandem for the rest of this year and the next 2 years is Murray-Jarry. Do you think you need Gustavsson enough to keep him? Or do you think that maybe D'Orio could be a legit goalie prospect, at least good enough where you can trade Gustavsson? Do you plan on drafting another goalie this summer?

I don't think the Penguins need Gustavsson and I have a really tough time seeing him ever becoming the starting goalie here. For the same reason that I don't think Jarry will supplant Murray, I don't think Gustavsson will ever supplant Jarry and Murray.

2 yr.s is a long time in sports. just say'en

 

[chethejet]

If you believe Reese will be that LW third line banger go to the net and add grit, then the issues are less complicated. Sprong, Reese, Jake, Rust, are top 6 wingers. None of them are centers. So what is missing is that age related center who can play up when needed. That is the focus going forward. don't give up futures here. Sheary, Hornqvist, Cole can be moved for that future fit.

 

[SherogoesHAM]

Sheary and Cole have to be by far the biggest trade bait. Sheary has to play with Crosby to be effective enough to be on this team. If Crosby stays with Simon and Sprong, there is no room for him.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Sheary and Cole have to be by far the biggest trade bait. Sheary has to play with Crosby to be effective enough to be on this team. If Crosby stays with Simon and Sprong, there is no room for him.

Sheary-XXXX-Hornqvist would be a really good 3rd line (although we need to trade someone). I don’t think Simon will work out long term there due to having two small wingers.