Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Cat On a Tin Roof, Dogs In a Pile

[Ryder71]

We really don't need to cement a 3C for more than 2 years into the future at this point. A whole lot can change between now and then. Young players can progress, making older vets with Cup resumes disposable for good returns.

Our main concern has to be the next few years. As you said yourself, that's the main window for our core's prime. Exploiting that while we can has to be our main priority.

We don't have anyone currently in the pipeline who can fill that void though. No one even remotely close actually. We're flush with goalies but anemic on centers. That's why at least in that particular area we should tread carefully.

 

[NMK11]

Olek is looking like we thought - that he's not going to be a PMD. A little worse then Cole and Hunwick in that regard... but not so worse that we can't play him.

Did I miss something? Oleksiak has looked pretty good as a third pairing guy. Hunwick has his good days where he can look like a good PMD, but I dont see how you can say O is worse than Cole with the puck on his stick.


And for the goalies, I cant see either Murray or Jarry being traded. JR likes having two goalies who can play, and I dont think DeSmith is a good enough backup. Once Gus makes his way up, I could see one of them being moved, but thats likely 2-3 years away at least. We should be able to sign Jarry cheaply for that long. The only way this doesnt work out is if Jarry sees himself as a number one and wants a chance to be the guy somewhere else.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We don't have anyone currently in the pipeline who can fill that void though. No one even remotely close actually. We're flush with goalies but anemic on centers. That's why at least in that particular area we should tread carefully.

But we don't need to fill all our roster holes for the foreseeable future right now. Right now, we're the defending 2-time champ just trying to fill a glaring 3C void for this season, so that has to be the focus. Anything beyond that is a luxury.

Like I said, a whole lot can happen over a couple years. It may happen that as our young players progress, we can leverage different assets for another 3C in a couple years' time. But the Pens' present goal has to be to make the playoffs and defend their title.

 

[cheesedanish87]

That still seems like a pointless risk.

It might have something to do with cap space.

They might want Corrodo and Sprong off the roster during the bye week.

 

[Ryder71]

But we don't need to fill all our roster holes for the foreseeable future right now. Right now, we're the defending 2-time champ just trying to fill a glaring 3C void for this season, so that has to be the focus. Anything beyond that is a luxury.

Like I said, a whole lot can happen over a couple years. It may happen that as our young players progress, we can leverage different assets for another 3C in a couple years' time. But the Pens' present goal has to be to make the playoffs and defend their title.

That just strikes me as dealing in a lot of uncertainty. And though we are the two time defending champs, we're at best playing like a borderline playoff team. I think the past week or two has been very illuminating in that regard. So, do we want to give up long term assets for short term fixes? I don't think so. Not with the level of inconsistency in our game.

 

[Gurglesons]

That just strikes me as dealing in a lot of uncertainty. And though we are the two time defending champs, we're at best playing like a borderline playoff team. I think the past week or two has been very illuminating in that regard. So, do we want to give up long term assets for short term fixes? I don't think so. Not with the level of inconsistency in our game.

So many cup winners of the past couple years have been wildly inconsistent. Us especially.

Winning the playoffs isn’t about being consistent. It is about having the best roster that can win 8 weeks of hockey. We have probably the second or third best roster in our conference. You build that out if you have a chance at a run every year. Just like we did during Shero.

 

[Tom Hanks]

That just strikes me as dealing in a lot of uncertainty. And though we are the two time defending champs, we're at best playing like a borderline playoff team. I think the past week or two has been very illuminating in that regard. So, do we want to give up long term assets for short term fixes? I don't think so. Not with the level of inconsistency in our game.

Picks aren’t guarantees to be good players in fact quite the opposite. You don’t trade them all but if a trade presents itself that really helps today you look at. Someone like Brassard may only have another year but he’s still an asset. We might trade him after the season or sign an extension. Fact he or someone comparable would be a good player.

No matter your opinion we are going to push for a threepeat. JR will see to that. He’ll make smart moves like he mostly has. He’s never mortgaged our future. It’d be a huge thing to win again and a threepeat may never be repeated while there is a cap.

Interesting fact is we are only 2 pts behind where the 2016 team was at the same stage of the season. A couple moves before the deadline and we’re going on another big cup run.

 

[Ryder71]

So many cup winners of the past couple years have been wildly inconsistent. Us especially.

Winning the playoffs isn’t about being consistent. It is about having the best roster that can win 8 weeks of hockey. We have probably the second or third best roster in our conference. You build that out if you have a chance at a run every year. Just like we did during Shero.

On paper you're right, we have a good roster. In actuality and in our level of execution, not so much. And that's what I'm speaking to. If our stars don't play like stars, no addition will matter that much. And I'd hate to make a move without feeling more secure about Crosby and Letangs game. Although last night was a good sign. I think we should slow play it or if we are gonna make a big move, have a long term remedy in mind. Again, unless it's a rental for a rental.

 

[Ryder71]

Picks aren’t guarantees to be good players in fact quite the opposite. You don’t trade them all but if a trade presents itself that really helps today you look at. Someone like Brassard may only have another year but he’s still an asset. We might trade him after the season or sign an extension. Fact he or someone comparable would be a good player.

No matter your opinion we are going to push for a threepeat. JR will see to that. He’ll make smart moves like he mostly has. He’s never mortgaged our future. It’d be a huge thing to win again and a threepeat may never be repeated while there is a cap.

Interesting fact is we are only 2 pts behind where the 2016 team was at the same stage of the season. A couple moves before the deadline and we’re going on another big cup run.

Nothing I've seen from this team this season suggests that will happen. Hopefully it does, and we catch fire. But we haven't won two in a row since against freakin buffalo over a month ago. That really doesn't point to anything positive. I just think we need to be a bit more realistic about this season and temper expectations.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

That just strikes me as dealing in a lot of uncertainty. And though we are the two time defending champs, we're at best playing like a borderline playoff team. I think the past week or two has been very illuminating in that regard. So, do we want to give up long term assets for short term fixes? I don't think so. Not with the level of inconsistency in our game.

A lot of uncertainty? We're essentially talking about a mid-late 1st (or something comparable, Sprong notwithstanding), which isn't something to hoard and prioritize over fixing our 3C situation this season. That's Capitals talk. We're in it to win it.

 

[Pancakes]

A lot of uncertainty? We're essentially talking about a mid-late 1st (or something comparable, Sprong notwithstanding), which isn't something to hoard and prioritize over fixing our 3C situation this season. That's Capitals talk. We're in it to win it.

I'm fine with dealing the first, but it has to be lottery protected. Iirc JR didn't even lottery protect the pick in the Perron deal, and that almost cost us as it could have been a lottery pick had we lost that Buffalo game.

He did protect the Kessel pick though oddly enough I believe.

 

[Ryder71]

A lot of uncertainty? We're essentially talking about a mid-late 1st (or something comparable, Sprong notwithstanding), which isn't something to hoard and prioritize over fixing our 3C situation this season. That's Capitals talk. We're in it to win it.

This can't be looked at in a vacuum. I think you're looking at this in a general sense while I'm dealing in specifics. What have you seen from this team this season that gives you optimism that we'll do anything substantial this season? Let's be honest here, this team is in a lot of trouble. And as much as I hate to say it I'm not sure any moves salvage this season. I know JR will do his best, But I don't think we're really that close. And as far as this draft goes, from what I understand it's a pretty darn good crop this year. I really don't want to miss out on it. In some years it might not be a big deal but this particular draft is suppose to be stacked.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Nothing I've seen from this team this season suggests that will happen. Hopefully it does, and we catch fire. But we haven't won two in a row since against freakin buffalo over a month ago. That really doesn't point to anything positive. I just think we need to be a bit more realistic about this season and temper expectations.

39 games left and 23-12-4 is around what we need to make it. I’d like to win more though. We haven’t played that well and our last 39 games have been 19-18-2.

That’s 4 wins and a couple loser points difference. I think we will be better from here out to make that up. Some trades from JR are only going to enhance that.

Once we are there the slate is clean and Sully hasn’t lost a round as coach. I have faith we’ll have the right game plan and a good enough roster supplied by JR.

 

[Ryder71]

39 games left and 23-12-4 is around what we need to make it. I’d like to win more though. We haven’t played that well and our last 39 games have been 19-18-2.

That’s 4 wins and a couple loser points difference. I think we will be better from here out to make that up. Some trades from JR are only going to enhance that.

Once we are there the slate is clean and Sully hasn’t lost a round as coach. I have faith we’ll have the right game plan and a good enough roster supplied by JR.

I don't necessarily share your optimism but I sincerely hope you're right.

 

[Peat]

No matter your opinion we are going to push for a threepeat. JR will see to that. He’ll make smart moves like he mostly has. He’s never mortgaged our future. It’d be a huge thing to win again and a threepeat may never be repeated while there is a cap.

What if there are no smart moves to be made? Should Rutherford throw overpayments at it for a chance of history, or let the chips fall where they may and keep assets for a mini rebuild?

Everyone agrees Rutherford should make smart trades that benefit us for most of the remaining window. It's a no brainer.

But that's not the idea in question. Unless I'm mistaken, the idea in question is that Rutherford shouldn't hand over long term assets for a short term fix at 3C, because we're in no position to make good use of it with the current roster in its current form.

Which is a totally different kettle of fish to smart moves that don't mortgage the future.

I agree with the idea btw. I'm not happy treating this as a prime cup opportunity unless the stars do first.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't necessarily share your optimism but I sincerely hope you're right.

Well the hardest part of our schedule is in the rear view mirror which helps. 23-12-4 is definitely doable if we're playing like we can, but who knows if that will happen.

I hate to get fooled again but damn if last night doesn't feel different even from the Philly game and other games that we thought might springboard the team. This one feels different because of what Sid did and what Sprong did and how Jarry looks. I dread this because the team could well crap on my hopes again but for the first time this season I feel a legitimate spark of hope, like we might be about to go on a 6 or 7 game win streak.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I don't necessarily share your optimism but I sincerely hope you're right.

I’m not saying we’ll win it all because it’s very hard but we’ll give ourselves a shot.

Castaway your doubts

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

This can't be looked at in a vacuum. I think you're looking at this in a general sense while I'm dealing in specifics. What have you seen from this team this season that gives you optimism that we'll do anything substantial this season? Let's be honest here, this team is in a lot of trouble. And as much as I hate to say it I'm not sure any moves salvage this season. I know JR will do his best, But I don't think we're really that close. And as far as this draft goes, from what I understand it's a pretty darn good crop this year. I really don't want to miss out on it. In some years it might not be a big deal but this particular draft is suppose to be stacked.

There are 39 games left in the season and we are precisely 1 point outside of playoff position (!), albeit with our competition having 3 games in hand. So no matter what issues we've had so far in a year where we've been operating without a 3C that we knew we'd need at some point during the season, it's beyond premature to close up shop with nearly half the season left to play.

Throwing that away just because it's a solid draft year shows very little fortitude. You support giving up and not spending assets to address the roster hole we all acknowledge because we're a single point out of the playoffs in early January. Think about that.

 

[Pancakes]

There are 39 games left in the season and we are precisely 1 point outside of playoff position (!), albeit with our competition having 3 games in hand. So no matter what issues we've had so far in a year where we've been operating without a 3C that we knew we'd need at some point during the season, it's beyond premature to close up shop with nearly half the season left to play.

Throwing that away just because it's a solid draft year shows very little fortitude. You support giving up and not spending assets to address the roster hole we all acknowledge because we're a single point out of the playoffs in early January. Think about that.

The happy middle ground for me is basically this:

- If you deal the first, lottery protect it
- Don't trade Sprong. Don't trade Letang/Crosby/Malkin/Kessel/Guentzel or the goalies.

If you can fill the holes with other assets, do it. If you can't, oh well.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm fine with dealing the first, but it has to be lottery protected. Iirc JR didn't even lottery protect the pick in the Perron deal, and that almost cost us as it could have been a lottery pick had we lost that Buffalo game.

He did protect the Kessel pick though oddly enough I believe.

If it's a deal-breaker, I'm not too concerned about lotto protection. I don't think it's a real threat for this team, particularly if we get the sort of quality 3C we're looking for that a 1st would yield us.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The happy middle ground for me is basically this:

- If you deal the first, lottery protect it
- Don't trade Sprong. Don't trade Letang/Crosby/Malkin/Kessel/Guentzel or the goalies.

If you can fill the holes with other assets, do it. If you can't, oh well.

I agree with that, except I'd trade Letang in the right deal - one that gives us a good 3C and a quality top 4 RH PMD to replace him.

Addressed the lotto thing earlier.

 

[Pancakes]

If it's a deal-breaker, I'm not too concerned about lotto protection. I don't think it's a real threat for this team, particularly if we get the sort of quality 3C we're looking for that a 1st would yield us.

It's too much of a gamble for me. I'm not saying we're going to finish way out of it, but it's easy to see us finishing just out of it and the way the lottery is setup now that still leaves us with a non zero chance at a top 3 pick.

Take where we are right now in the standings. Right now we'd be picking 9th, but we'd also have a 17% chance at a top 3 pick. Tankathon | 2018 NHL Draft Order & Lottery Simulator

That's almost 1 in 5. You can't trade a away a pick that has a 1 in 5 chance of being top 3. That's insanity imo.

 

[Pancakes]

I agree with that, except I'd trade Letang in the right deal - one that gives us a good 3C and a quality top 4 RH PMD to replace him.

Addressed the lotto thing earlier.

If we could get something like Schmidt/Karlsson I'd consider dealing Letang. But it'd have to be that type of package, and I just dunno if Letang would get us that right now.

 

[Tom Hanks]

What if there are no smart moves to be made? Should Rutherford throw overpayments at it for a chance of history, or let the chips fall where they may and keep assets for a mini rebuild?

Everyone agrees Rutherford should make smart trades that benefit us for most of the remaining window. It's a no brainer.

But that's not the idea in question. Unless I'm mistaken, the idea in question is that Rutherford shouldn't hand over long term assets for a short term fix at 3C, because we're in no position to make good use of it with the current roster in its current form.

Which is a totally different kettle of fish to smart moves that don't mortgage the future.

I agree with the idea btw. I'm not happy treating this as a prime cup opportunity unless the stars do first.

Overpayments are fine for the right fit. You can “lose” a trade on paper but be a better team for it.

I don’t see any realistic way he’s going to mortgage our future. We don’t have cap space to move guys like Sprong or Guentzel and why would he.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's too much of a gamble for me. I'm not saying we're going to finish way out of it, but it's easy to see us finishing just out of it and the way the lottery is setup now that still leaves us with a non zero chance at a top 3 pick.

Take where we are right now in the standings. Right now we'd be picking 9th, but we'd also have a 17% chance at a top 3 pick. Tankathon | 2018 NHL Draft Order & Lottery Simulator

That's almost 1 in 5. You can't trade a away a pick that has a 1 in 5 chance of being top 3. That's insanity imo.

That's fair. I'd take the chance, particularly since I don't see any way we're missing the dance if we acquire Brassard/Pageau/Bozak without subtracting much from the roster, but I understand not wanting to miss out on that.