Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Cat On a Tin Roof, Dogs In a Pile

[The Old Master]

Hopefully we can win two in a row by beating the B's tomorrow. We need to see a better level of consistency because it's really hard to gauge just which direction this team is headed. If I'm JR I'd tread carefully because of our uneven efforts. It's very hard to accurately assess a team when their just so up and down.

I would think so......but this is the guy that traded fatty for lovejoy........maybe I should cut some phone wires?

 

[Ryder71]

I would think so......but this is the guy that traded fatty for lovejoy........maybe I should cut some phone wires?

Or Erat for Forsberg as an example. I don't want to see any such trade. That's what concerns me.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Their needs are evident, however can this team be trusted to put forth the necessary effort game in and game out? Until we're more clear on that I'd be very careful about which assets I'd part with. I'd hate to trade a first for example for a short term fix on a team that might not do anything but crawl into the playoffs and get trounced. I really think we need to be careful with young assets or high picks.

The first will be protected or we keep it as until we get closer to the deadline. If it’s traded unprotected it would right at the deadline based on our roster/standings

 

[Ryder71]

The first will be protected or we keep it as until we get closer to the deadline. If it’s traded unprotected it would right at the deadline based on our roster/standings

But at what point do we stop giving up 1sts? If we somehow get a guy like Kane in a sign and trade then maybe parting with a high end young asset would be ok. Because he could be a long term solution. But beyond that type of scenario I'd be pretty conservative on that front.

 

[Night Shift]

Oleksiak starting to look bad

Lol..Wut

 

[Tom Hanks]

But at what point do we stop giving up 1sts? If we somehow get a guy like Kane in a sign and trade then maybe parting with a high end young asset would be ok. Because he could be a long term solution. But beyond that type of scenario I'd be pretty conservative on that front.

When we stop winning cups

Everything is based on returns though and what your team looks like. Whoever we draft with that pick likely isn’t helping until our window starts closing.

 

[Ryder71]

When we stop winning cups

Everything is based on returns though and what your team looks like. Whoever we draft with that pick likely isn’t helping until our window starts closing.

I guess it boils down to the fact that it's hard to trust this team. And if they just sneak in to the postseason only to lose in five or six and we give up a number one, we're only setting ourselves up for disappointment moving forward.

It wasn't long ago that some didn't believe Sprong would even get a look here. I just see things as murky at best, which is why I'd proceed with caution.

 

[Ryder71]

I have no issue moving Sheary, GUS, Cole and/OR maybe even a guy like Dumoulin in the right deal. But this constant draining of high picks has got to stop. Again and unless it's for a long term fix.

 

[Saints11]

I am not in favor of moving any of the three tenders until they are sure they aren’t dealing the best of the three. It is still too early to move one of them.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I am not in favor of moving any of the three tenders until they are sure they aren’t dealing the best of the three. It is still too early to move one of them.

You wait until contracts force their hands.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I have no issue moving Sheary, GUS, Cole and/OR maybe even a guy like Dumoulin in the right deal. But this constant draining of high picks has got to stop. Again and unless it's for a long term fix.

Is it that bad? Here’s the last 3 years of first 3 rounds. Seems legit.

2017 1st went out but we got a 2nd back in the Reaves deal.

2020 2nd went out but allowed us to keep Murray in expansion and Fleury got the cup run (which was vital)

2017 2nd went out for Hainsey who helped eat minutes and win a cup.

Bennett got us a 2016 3rd rounder.

Gave up a 2016 3rd rounder for Schultz. Bargain!

We brought in a 2016 2nd rounder with the glorious Bonino/Sutter trade and a 3rd rounder went back.

We gave up a 2016 1st and a 2016 3rd in the Kessel trade but got back a 2016 2nd. Kessel has been a game no wait cup changer for us.

We gave up a 2015 1st for Perron which was fair and that led us to Hagelin who has been a part of 2 cups (one significantly).

 

[Ryder71]

You wait until contracts force their hands.

Now this I actually disagree with. That's a position of depth for us. If GUS garners enough value I'd certainly move him because of MM and Jarry already being NHL caliber. Now that being said it would have to be really good return, particularly if Sheary or some such asset is involved.

 

[Ryder71]

Is it that bad? Here’s the last 3 years of first 3 rounds. Seems legit.

2017 1st went out but we got a 2nd back in the Reaves deal.

2020 2nd went out but allowed us to keep Murray in expansion and Fleury got the cup run (which was vital)

2017 2nd went out for Hainsey who helped eat minutes and win a cup.

Bennett got us a 2016 3rd rounder.

Gave up a 2016 3rd rounder for Schultz. Bargain!

We brought in a 2016 2nd rounder with the glorious Bonino/Sutter trade and a 3rd rounder went back.

We gave up a 2016 1st and a 2016 3rd in the Kessel trade but got back a 2016 2nd. Kessel has been a game no wait cup changer for us.

We gave up a 2015 1st for Perron which was fair and that led us to Hagelin who has been a part of 2 cups (one significantly).

And in most of those scenarios Sid and Geno were in their primes. That dynamic is changing. We can't continue to expect them to carry us. We need to help supplement them with good young talented guys like Guentzel and Sprong.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

And in all those scenarios Sid and Geno were in their primes. That dynamic is changing. We can't continue to expect them to carry us. We need to help supplement them with good young talented guys like Guenztel and Sprong.

They have a core for 5 more years or so. Maximize it as much as possible and hope the rebuild doesnt hurt too much. Having a late 1st or two extra 5 years from now wont stop that rebuild from happenning

 

[Tom Hanks]

And in all those scenarios Sid and Geno were in their primes. That dynamic is changing. We can't continue to expect them to carry us. We need to help supplement them with good young talented guys like Guenztel and Sprong.

Again those picks will take a few years to help and that’s if we get them right. I’m ok trading firsts right now if the desks work for us.

Say it’s Kane and we know we can sign him. That’s a LW’er in his prime for say the next 4-5 years that helps right now.

 

[Ryder71]

They have a core for 5 more years or so. Maximize it as much as possible and hope the rebuild doesnt hurt too much. Having a late 1st or two extra 5 years from now wont stop that rebuild from happenning

Personally I don't think we have a five year window. Maybe two or three years at most. But in the interim we have to start looking at long term solutions.

 

[Ryder71]

Again those picks will take a few years to help and that’s if we get them right. I’m ok trading firsts right now if the desks work for us.

Say it’s Kane and we know we can sign him. That’s a LW’er in his prime for say the next 4-5 years that helps right now.

In in that scenario I agree, I even used Kane as an example. So I'd be on board with that. But I'm not giving up a first for a rental, or even a player who will be a UFA in 2019.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And in most of those scenarios Sid and Geno were in their primes. That dynamic is changing. We can't continue to expect them to carry us. We need to help supplement them with good young talented guys like Guentzel and Sprong.

Hoarding prospects is a great way to end up like Cupless Caps. Don't make any stupid trades, but this core is built to win. Address the roster holes that literally everyone knew needed to be addressed at some point this season and then evaluate.

 

[Night Shift]

I am not in favor of moving any of the three tenders until they are sure they aren’t dealing the best of the three. It is still too early to move one of them.

I 100% agree. Gustavsson could end up to be a great piece build around after the Crosby Malkin era.

 

[Ryder71]

Hoarding prospects is a great way to end up like Cupless Caps. Don't make any stupid trades, but this core is built to win. Address the roster holes that literally everyone knew needed to be addressed at some point this season and then evaluate.

Based on what we've seen this season I can't say I'm confident that this team will do much of anything. Sid and Letang have been wildly inconsistent. That scares me a bit. I did not expect such a profound drop in their performances. Maybe this is an off year. I wouldn't give up on this season, but I wouldn't push the envelope either.

 

[The Old Master]

Is it that bad? .

yes! our stars are getting older. we need a constant flow of new and younger players. while its worked in the past, we are at the point that the one player fix is no longer an option. with the cap you can't just keep adding high priced player's. just think if we only had a "ready" center and a good defense man we could bring up on the cheep. our stars aren't going to last forever. and we've seen this yr. what it looks like with them not at their high level of play.....and us with nobody to replace or help them out.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Now this I actually disagree with. That's a position of depth for us. If GUS garners enough value I'd certainly move him because of MM and Jarry already being NHL caliber. Now that being said it would have to be really good return, particularly if Sheary or some such asset is involved.

Think about that for a minute. At some point one of Murray or Jarry is going to force a trade since they'll both garnish pretty decent contracts with healthy cap hits. Jarry being up full-time will allow Gus to naturally come up through the system and potentially replace whomever they have to lose. They lose two in what you are getting at.

The Pens goal depth has been their deepest position for a couple years now. They were just afforded to lose their #1 due to it for nothing in a freak occasion.

 

[Ryder71]

Think about that for a minute. At some point one of Murray or Jarry is going to force a trade since they'll both garnish pretty decent contracts with healthy cap hits. Jarry being up full-time will allow Gus to naturally come up through the system and potentially replace whomever they have to lose. They lose two in what you are getting at.

The Pens goal depth has been their deepest position for a couple years now. They were just afforded to lose their #1 due to it for nothing in a freak occasion.

I don't see that being an issue for a couple years at least. MM is a two time cup champ (who does have injury issues however). And Jarry is just now cementing himself as a solid and reliable goalie at this level. They're 23 and 22 years old. This could be a great tandem for several years to come. GUS is a luxury, and one we can and should exploit in the right deal.

 

[madinsomniac]

I don't see that being an issue for a couple years at least. MM is a two time cup champ (who does have injury issues however). And Jarry is just now cementing himself as a solid and reliable goalie at this level. They're 23 and 22 years old. This could be a great tandem for several years to come. GUS is a luxury, and one we can and should exploit in the right deal.

Prospect goalies have little value on the trade market... people want proven goalies... its not really worth dealing any of them yet

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Personally I don't think we have a five year window. Maybe two or three years at most. But in the interim we have to start looking at long term solutions.

There are no long term solutions. Thats my point. Unless luck is the plan you aint getting enough talent with an extra late first or second to make a meaningful difference once the cores window closes. Those assets are much more maximized in a deal for a good player right now.