Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | August Edition (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

[Tom Hanks]

Steve Sullivan's been memory-holed, but that guy was actually pretty good for us.

Really good for the power play too.

 

[EightyOne]

Really good for the power play too.

But, like, worse than Neal but better than Dupuis?

 

[mpp9]

He didn’t really fit here once Sid was back. Didn’t fit Sid’s style. Too soft to complement Malkin and Neal. And wasn’t cut out for a shutdown role for Staal.

He was 45-50 pt small offense only player who was best used on the PP point.

Cullen’s still my favorite cheap UFA signing in memory.

 

[Tom Hanks]

But, like, worse than Neal but better than Dupuis?

He was more of the setup guy not the shooter and he was really good doing it.

 

[billybudd]

He was more of the setup guy not the shooter and he was really good doing it.

Back then, Josh Yohe was trying to get a quote from Letang about why the powerplay was improved vs the previous years. Letang kept giving him the one-word answer "Sully." Yohe was like "well, outside of Steve Sullivan, are you guys doing anything differently?" and Letang just shakes his head and says "Sully."

Wish I could find the article about that. Think it was on DK's site, but I'm not a subscriber, anymore (if it even still exists).

 

[Tom Hanks]

Back then, Josh Yohe was trying to get a quote from Letang about why the powerplay was improved vs the previous years. Letang kept giving him the one-word answer "Sully." Yohe was like "well, outside of Steve Sullivan, are you guys doing anything differently?" and Letang just shakes his head and says "Sully."

Wish I could find the article about that. Think it was on DK's site, but I'm not a subscriber, anymore (if it even still exists).

Yeah I remember a player saying that. I was surprised at the time that the comment was so strong.

 

[Peat]

The only bad decision was sticking with Bylsma after the players had tuned him out.

And. Honestly. The same exact problem might befall JR with Sullivan. In my opinion, Sully is already on a down trajectory. He better blow some doors off this wagon this year. If really felt like the second win was in spite of him and last year didn't impress me at all.

In fact, three years from now..It might be 2013 all over again...

Why do you say this?

 

[Tom Hanks]

Why do you say this?

Yeah that’s a bizzare thing to say. Sully had to come up with a different game plan. He identified one that thought gave us the best chance to win. He kept the players focused on the prize. It wasn’t a pretty win but with all the different injuries it was one of the gutsiest playoff runs.

I thought he should have tweaked some things these past playoffs but I’m not sure it would have made a difference. Malkin, Kessel, Brassard, Hags is a lot to overcome especially against a team that went on to win a cup.

 

[Turin]

Sullivan was probably the biggest reason they won in 17, to go with goaltending and Sid and Geno. They were a bad roster for most of the playoffs but got better as every series went on partly due to coaching adjustments, besides Washington but even then they played an amazing game 7 and had to deal with Sid being out of sorts after game 3.

 

[Corvidae]

It's okay that you didn't see the troubling decision making over the last 20 months.

I don't know any coach who hasn't made some decisions that aren't considered troubling by fans and analysts, but ultimately, of course he's on a "downhill trajectory." When you start at the top there's not really anywhere else to go. All coaches have an expiration date but I think it's premature to think he's just going to get progressively worse from here on out. His pros outweigh his cons and I can't think of anyone else I'd rather have behind the bench right now and certainly can't imagine anyone else back there last year would have brought home three in a row.

 

[PensandCaps]

One gripe i have with Sullivan is that he didn't give Brassard a single shift in OT in game 6. But instead went with Kuhn...absolutely terrible bench management there. Idc how hurt Brassard is, play him over Kuhn.

Brassard was the 4C that game...he should've stacked the top 9 in OT. Line 4 didn't get a shift.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Crosby is also worse now offensively than he was during Dupuis' good stretch though. If you put Rust with that Crosby and left him attached to Sid's hip like Dupuis was I'm pretty sure Rusty could generate another .10 ppg

Crosby went from producing at a Wayne Gretzky level 5v5 to just a top 10 forward in the league when Dupuis was substituted for Gibbons/Stempniak/Hornqvist.

 

[Ugene Magic]

All this Sullivan talk is getting a bit confusing....

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Really good for the power play too.

I liked Sullivan, his last productive season was with us, I think he hit around 48-50pts or something.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I liked Sullivan, his last productive season was with us, I think he hit around 48-50pts or something.

Yeah he seemed like a guy everyone liked. I always remember this clip which is pretty funny

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sullivan-Staal-Dupuis was a legit kick ass 2nd line for the Penguins, I was really happy with what he provided. He along with Staal and Dupuis really softened the blow of not having Crosby for 60 games, they would have been in a lot of trouble without that 2nd line performing as well as it did.

 

[Jacob]

I can’t remember much of anything about Sullivan’s time here.

I wanna say he had trouble finding a line and producing early in the year but was decent later on in the season but I forgot where.. was that the year of the Flyers 1st round debacle?

 

[Tom Hanks]

I can’t remember much of anything about Sullivan’s time here.

I wanna say he had trouble finding a line and producing early in the year but was decent later on in the season but I forgot where.. was that the year of the Flyers 1st round debacle?

Not much in the first 13 games (3 points) then solid in the middle (.52PPG) and 22 points in the last 22 games. Total 48 points in 79 regular season games. Was a PPG against the Flyers in that debacle.

 

[The GM]

I can’t remember much of anything about Sullivan’s time here.

I wanna say he had trouble finding a line and producing early in the year but was decent later on in the season but I forgot where.. was that the year of the Flyers 1st round debacle?

I don’t remember much either, but thankfully I remember even less of zach boychuk

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don’t remember much either, but thankfully I remember even less of zach boychuk

I definitely do not miss the "throw shit at the wall" approach that Shero used a little too often with the top 6.

I get that we were up against the cap and wanted to bolster the d, but decisions like passing on Ray Whitney in the 2010 off-season always bugged me. Cost next to nothing and would have been awesome here, like a really skilled Cullen (in terms of veteran presence, not defense).

 

[Pens x]

Sullivan was unfortunately one of Shero’s better forward free agents.

 

[EightyOne]

HCMS concerns me because he made terrible lineup choices. He obviously got scared of taking risks.

You don't force a falling HBK again unless you are scared. You dying don't field the same useless bottom line. You don't put your bad defenders in over their low ceilings.

I don't know why he was so risk averse to changes last year, but it resulted in bad players on the ice AND not even trying new players.

Outside of year one, I don't like what he's done. It looked like he really understood the farm team and how to put players in positions to succeed.

Then...to me it became apparent that he liked his four players and that was that. The rest was luck.

I saw zero innovation last year in terms of usage or strategy. Basically didn't get the right players put into situations for them to succeed.

If you want to say, well, the roster was weak. Okay. Why didn't he change something up to where the guys could win despite not being the best roster? Why were breakaway attacks so prevalent? Why could no one find their assignment? Why were they so weak through the neutral zone?

For all the right answers he had early, he seemed lost and afraid of making decisions last year. To me. An armchair jerk.

I hope HCMS makes me look stupid. But if this year is as bad of a struggle and player mismanagement with bad strategy matchups, then he'll get no more Christmas cards from me.

 

[Andy99]

I’ve soured some on Sully too after last year’s bench management decisions, and JB in his latest article already has Simon penciled in as Sid’s RW for next year, which will be a terrible decision if he doesn’t improve tremendously on his goal-scoring and forecheck/backcheck....

But still, Sully is lower down on my list of concerns for the season....Murray is number one...if he can’t stay healthy and improve greatly on his .907 save %, another Cup chance will be doomed....The Hockey News has just ranked MM as a middling goalie somewhere between Mike Smith and Luongo....every other young goalie, except Martin Jones, is ranked higher...ouch

The Great Goalie Debate: Ranking the NHL's 31 starting netminders in 2018-19

 

[Peat]

I’ve soured some on Sully too after last year’s bench management decisions, and JB in his latest article already has Simon penciled in as Sid’s RW for next year, which will be a terrible decision if he doesn’t improve tremendously on his goal-scoring and forecheck/backcheck....

But still, Sully is lower down on my list of concerns for the season....Murray is number one...if he can’t stay healthy and improve greatly on his .907 save %, another Cup chance will be doomed....The Hockey News has just ranked MM as a middling goalie somewhere between Mike Smith and Luongo....every other young goalie, except Martin Jones, is ranked higher...ouch

The Great Goalie Debate: Ranking the NHL's 31 starting netminders in 2018-19

They also think Brian Elliot is better than 10 other NHL goaltenders, so I'll be taking a pinch of salt with that one. I agree that we need Murray to step back up but I'll leave off worrying about that one until he starts showing that was his norm rather than a blip in a perfect storm.


As for Sully... I don't even know where to start with EightyOne's post, other than point out I (and others) asked about his criticism of 2016-17 and that post contains barely any answers to that.

But last year... tbh, I no longer really believe in trying to take worries about people from last year into this. The whole season was about managing fatigue with the hope of doing just enough through the season to qualify, with the intent of peaking at the end and taking that surge into the play-offs. At which point a perfect storm of injuries hit and our key defensive pieces' games crashed. Sometimes stuff happens. We'll see what comes out of the wash next season.

I'm not sure Sully played his hand as well as he could have, but I didn't see these big changes in his effectiveness that swing an opinion.

 

[Andy99]

They also think Brian Elliot is better than 10 other NHL goaltenders, so I'll be taking a pinch of salt with that one. I agree that we need Murray to step back up but I'll leave off worrying about that one until he starts showing that was his norm rather than a blip in a perfect storm.


As for Sully... I don't even know where to start with EightyOne's post, other than point out I (and others) asked about his criticism of 2016-17 and that post contains barely any answers to that.

But last year... tbh, I no longer really believe in trying to take worries about people from last year into this. The whole season was about managing fatigue with the hope of doing just enough through the season to qualify, with the intent of peaking at the end and taking that surge into the play-offs. At which point a perfect storm of injuries hit and our key defensive pieces' games crashed. Sometimes stuff happens. We'll see what comes out of the wash next season.

I'm not sure Sully played his hand as well as he could have, but I didn't see these big changes in his effectiveness that swing an opinion.

Yeah, it's all speculation at this point...have to see how the first few months play out...but I already give Sully less rope than he used to have....many personnel decisions last year were head-scratching and he was outcoached IMO in the POs for the first time, but it's hard to know what effect any of that had on the second-round loss...I tend to think not a lot....