Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | August Edition (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

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PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
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Give me 2012 J. Staal.

Was amazing vs Philly in the playoffs and was a 65 point pace player that year.

While bringing size and great D.

Truly believe had he stayed, he would've built on that season and become a way better Offensive player. Going to Carolina kinda set him back offensively. Even with Sid and Malkin ahead of him, he still lit up Philly in the playoffs.
 

Gurglesons

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Give me 2012 J. Staal.

Was amazing vs Philly in the playoffs and was a 65 point pace player that year.

While bringing size and great D.

Truly believe had he stayed, he would've built on that season and become a way better Offensive player. Going to Carolina kinda set him back offensively. Even with Sid and Malkin ahead of him, he still lit up Philly in the playoffs.

He’s still that player. He’s a legit 2c on 30 teams in the NHL.
 

Pens x

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Oct 8, 2016
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If are roster players play how we expect them to and do not have down years like a lot of them did last year and if Simon and Sprong play in the 20 pt range, I could see us actually winning a President’s trophy for once.
That is a lot of ands. Also, we need Murray to get his shit together and our defense needs to learn how to play defense again.

In the east, I might still give the advantage to win the presidents trophy to Tampa, Boston or Toronto because they get to play 4 AHL teams in their division.
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
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He’s still that player. He’s a legit 2c on 30 teams in the NHL.

I know he is. But he had his best offensive season by farr that year.

He should be putting up better numbers. Especially as the #1C in Carolina. He's so big, I don't get how he just doesn't bully opponents with his size to atleast 60 points as the go to C.

Like how he looked in 2012.
 

Turin

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Feb 27, 2018
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Give me 2012 J. Staal.

Was amazing vs Philly in the playoffs and was a 65 point pace player that year.

While bringing size and great D.

Truly believe had he stayed, he would've built on that season and become a way better Offensive player. Going to Carolina kinda set him back offensively. Even with Sid and Malkin ahead of him, he still lit up Philly in the playoffs.

Carolina buried him and made him more like a 3C in usage than Bylsma ever did. Ironic.
 

EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
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Is that saying much though?

GM Chevy is a good GM though, I'll give him that, but he's the only good Canadian team GM. The Jets have so much young talent, they are primed to be a solid playoff team for a long time because of it. Even if they lose some guys, their veteran stars, through free agency because of being priced out, they have so much decent young talent that they wouldn't miss a beat.

TBH, I can be a bit hyperbolic in my postings.

But, I mean, when someone is like zOMG Shero should be wearing concrete boots off a pier, I get a little annoyed.

Shero TRIED. I am not sure what he was trying but he was following some sort of plan that he knew. I would rather a GM try and fail than sit back knowing that they have an 10th place team at best with a wasted first round top talent draft pick---year after year after year.

It is really really hard to get a team built, get a team that can win built, and keep it going for nearly a decade in a salary cap sport.



When your best draft picks are like 30th every year, it is hard to find young talent. When you have a team full of skill, it is hard to find extra cap space.



Shero made some head scratching picks, but, come on.

The fact is over the last thirty years that the Pens have been out of the playoffs and full on LOSERS for only like 5 of the last 30 seasons (and one more due to lockout) is amazing. Yeah, that is multiple GMs and eras without and with salary cap---but that makes it all the more amazing. That different GMs can roll in here and still find success through it all.
 

Gurglesons

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That is a lot of ands. Also, we need Murray to get his **** together and our defense needs to learn how to play defense again.

In the east, I might still give the advantage to win the presidents trophy to Tampa, Boston or Toronto because they get to play 4 AHL teams in their division.

A lot of our defensive issues were forward related to be honest. All we have to do is get Brassard to play like he was prior to being injured, and Cullen and Sheahan to play around a 30 pt pace.
 

Gurglesons

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Is that saying much though?

GM Chevy is a good GM though, I'll give him that, but he's the only good Canadian team GM. The Jets have so much young talent, they are primed to be a solid playoff team for a long time because of it. Even if they lose some guys, their veteran stars, through free agency because of being priced out, they have so much decent young talent that they wouldn't miss a beat.

The Jets have done literally nothing (two playoffs spots and a WCF where they got crushed by an expansion team) for the seven years Chevy has been there and likely will start getting players prices out. Wheeler, Buff, and Little which is a big part of their depth will also start to drop off due to age and they likely lose Trouba and possibly Myers.

Chevy took three years to make an actual trade. Shero took three years to take a team that picked first overall to a playoff spot.

Shero’s done a way better job building New Jersey and cleaning up Lou’s mess in the last three years than what Chevy did in Winni. Chevy basically had a crappy team and took advantage of an eager fan base and drafting high picks.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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The Jets have done literally nothing (two playoffs spots and a WCF where they got crushed by an expansion team) for the seven years Chevy has been there and likely will start getting players prices out. Wheeler, Buff, and Little which is a big part of their depth will also start to drop off due to age and they likely lose Trouba and possibly Myers.

Chevy took three years to make an actual trade. Shero took three years to take a team that picked first overall to a playoff spot.

Shero’s done a way better job building New Jersey and cleaning up Lou’s mess in the last three years than what Chevy did in Winni. Chevy basically had a crappy team and took advantage of an eager fan base and drafting high picks.

Listen, you got a positive thing about a Canadian team out of me.

That's rare as f***.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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I truly believe this team can win it again next year and another back 2 back, but it really really depends on how much Sullivan wants to get over himself, last year was him tripping over himself for most of the season. Outside of that question mark for me, it's Murray and our back-up situation, I am not 100% convinced that is the right move, to be honest, I think that is going to be like our 3C situation like last year, JR is going to trade for a back-up, that's a forgone conclusion for me at this point in time.

I'd be keeping a close eye on Edmonton. Something is going to give there with Montoya, Talbot, and Koskinen. I'd be looking to see if Montoya is a guy that is easily had via a quick trade instead of losing him via waivers to someone else.

The safest bet on the Penguins it seems, is that Murray will get hurt and for at least over a dozen games and that Sullivan is almost too stubborn for his own good and is his own worst enemy with that at times.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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Sep 5, 2008
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Shero TRIED.
Did he, though? Does a team go through years of Mark Eaton/Rob Scuderi/Gladams re-treads if the GM is trying? Does a team go through years of multiple guys like Pyatt, Kobasew, Cal O'Reilly, Mike Comrie, etc., etc., if the GM is trying? Does Bylsma make it past 2012 if Shero's really trying?

I don't know, man. The Shero/Bylsma era was a total shitshow after 2009, and I think we won in spite of Bylsma being at the helm and that was before Shero could really make his mark by shaping the team the way he wanted. He inherited a fantastic core that needed some veteran presence and direction, that's it--skill, talent and drive took them the rest of the way. After 2009 Shero essentially said "Welp, wrap it up. That worked one time, so that's the way it has to be forever." He was almost spiteful in his stubbornness and unwillingness to evolve and adapt.

Maybe it's recency bias with how much work JR/Sully have done in the staggering paradigm shift, and how successful JR/Sully have been since joining, but in the short few years those two have been at the helm it really makes you realize how piss poor a job Shero and Bylsma did while they were here for nearly a decade. Doubly impressive when you look at the smoldering ruins left behind with Shero and Bylsma's firing (seriously, look at that f***ing roster JR inherited and had to start working with, it's a goddamn fiery bag of diarrhea).
 
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Empoleon8771

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Did he, though? Does a team go through years of Mark Eaton/Rob Scuderi/Gladams re-treads if the GM is trying? Does a team go through years of multiple guys like Pyatt, Kobasew, Cal O'Reilly, Mike Comrie, etc., etc., if the GM is trying? Does Bylsma make it past 2012 if Shero's really trying?

In a salary cap era, you sometimes have to make sacrifices like those. People forget that Crosby and Malkin actually made a lot of money once upon a time, those two combined to take up over 30% of the cap in 2009-2010 and over 27% by 2013-2014. They had borderline no young forwards coming up through the system and they had limited cap space, so that's why you saw the try guys like Pyatt, Kobasew and Comrie. The only difference between Shero gambling on guys like Pyatt and Rutherford gambling on guys like Comeau is that guys like Comeau actually panned out for Rutherford. The Penguins under JR have gambled on guys just like Shero did, it's just that his gambles were on guys like Downie, Comeau and Cullen and they panned out for the most part.
 

Empoleon8771

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Rutherford’s guys had actual recent track records of production.

Pyatt: Had a pace of 20 points/82 games in the previous 2 seasons prior to playing for the Penguins, and had 31 points in 76 games the season before that
Kobasew: Had a pace of 20 points/82 games in the previous 2 seasons prior to playing for the Penguins, and he had 16 points in 63 games the season before that

Comeau: Had a pace of 22 points/82 games in the previous 2 seasons prior to playing for the Penguins, and had 15 points in 74 games the season before that

Let's not rewrite history here. Rutherford struck gold with guys like Comeau, while Shero struck out on the same caliber of guys. Pyatt and Kobasew were both former middle-6 players with histories of producing (Pyatt was a 30 point player and Kobasew was a 32 point player from 2006-2013, both were 20-25 point players in the most recent seasons) that both just monumentally flopped here.
 
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mpp9

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Pyatt: Had a pace of 20 points/82 games in the previous 2 seasons prior to playing for the Penguins, and had 31 points in 76 games the season before that
Kobasew: Had a pace of 20 points/82 games in the previous 2 seasons prior to playing for the Penguins, and he had 16 points in 63 games the season before that

Comeau: Had a pace of 22 points/82 games in the previous 2 seasons prior to playing for the Penguins, and had 15 points in 74 games the season before that

Let's not rewrite history here. Rutherford struck gold with guys like Comeau, while Shero struck out on the same caliber of guys. Pyatt and Kobasew were both former middle-6 players with histories of producing (Pyatt was a 30 point player and Kobasew was a 32 point player from 2006-2013) that both just monumentally flopped here.

Matt Cullen trumps any of the guys you mentioned.

GMs are at the mercy of the UFA crop in a given year but most people on here were lukewarm on signing him after signing Fehr and trading for Bonino.

Rutherford’s 2014-2015 season was shit. I’m not even talking about Comeau. And even he was an actual contributor for us.
 
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Empoleon8771

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Matt Cullen trumps any of the guys you mentioned.

GMs are at the mercy of the UFA crop in a given year but most people on here were lukewarm on signing him after signing Fehr and trading for Bonino.

Rutherford’s 2014-2015 season was ****. I’m not even talking about Comeau. And even he was an actual contributor for us.

Okay? My point is that it's not fair to say that Shero "didn't try to win" when he got guys like Kobasew and Pyatt, when Rutherford did the same thing with bargain bin players but got better results. Shero was at mercy of the salary cap, so it's really not fair to say he didn't try to win by gambling on former decent to good players like Kobasew, Pyatt and Comrie.
 

mpp9

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Okay? My point is that it's not fair to say that Shero "didn't try to win" when he got guys like Kobasew and Pyatt, when Rutherford did the same thing with bargain bin players but got better results. Shero was at mercy of the salary cap, so it's really not fair to say he didn't try to win by gambling on former decent to good players like Kobasew, Pyatt and Comrie.

I didn’t say he wasn’t trying to win. I’m saying Rutherford has been far better at finding diamonds in the rough. Which is really what free agency is all about for a contending team close to the cap.
 
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EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
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The only bad decision was sticking with Bylsma after the players had tuned him out.

And. Honestly. The same exact problem might befall JR with Sullivan. In my opinion, Sully is already on a down trajectory. He better blow some doors off this wagon this year. If really felt like the second win was in spite of him and last year didn't impress me at all.

In fact, three years from now..It might be 2013 all over again...
 

Corvidae

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May 5, 2009
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The only bad decision was sticking with Bylsma after the players had tuned him out.

And. Honestly. The same exact problem might befall JR with Sullivan. In my opinion, Sully is already on a down trajectory. He better blow some doors off this wagon this year. If really felt like the second win was in spite of him and last year didn't impress me at all.

In fact, three years from now..It might be 2013 all over again...

Yeah after not winning a 3rd Cup in a row that dude is definitely on the way out. I personally think they should have just canned him in June.
 
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EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
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Yeah after not winning a 3rd Cup in a row that dude is definitely on the way out. I personally think they should have just canned him in June.

It's okay that you didn't see the troubling decision making over the last 20 months.
 

Gurglesons

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Matt Cullen trumps any of the guys you mentioned.

GMs are at the mercy of the UFA crop in a given year but most people on here were lukewarm on signing him after signing Fehr and trading for Bonino.

Rutherford’s 2014-2015 season was ****. I’m not even talking about Comeau. And even he was an actual contributor for us.

Steve Sullivan, Aaron Asham, Mike Rupp and Vokoun were all low risk UFA signings Shero made. He also got Martin and Michalek through UFA.

Rutherford and Shero basically have the same amount of good UFA signings. Look at Ehrhoff, Hunwick, Fehr to an extent, etc.
 

billybudd

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Steve Sullivan, Aaron Asham, Mike Rupp and Vokoun were all low risk UFA signings Shero made. He also got Martin and Michalek through UFA.

Rutherford and Shero basically have the same amount of good UFA signings. Look at Ehrhoff, Hunwick, Fehr to an extent, etc.

Steve Sullivan's been memory-holed, but that guy was actually pretty good for us.
 
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