Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | August Edition (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

[Peat]

In this hypothetical would it be prime Kunitz, or anyone, being in again or corpse on skates Kunitz?

Players at their peak with us.

 

[EightyOne]

If we are hoping for a peak Dupuis, I want a peak Kunitz as well.

Do we want a peak Hedberg, Tuggnut, Thibault or Vokoun as back-up tender?

 

[Gurglesons]

Idle question (maybe doesn't belong here) from someone who's late to the show -

If you had to make a combined roster from the entire Sid & Geno era, how many of the guys that we currently have would get in?

Guentzel - Crosby - Hossa
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Hagelin - Bonino - Kessel
Malone - Staal - Hornqvist

Martin - Gonchar
Dumoulin - Letang
Gogo - Niskanen

Murray
Vokoun

Could see an argument for prime Whitney in place of Niskanen and prime Orpik in place of Dumo.

Also, if we were running a realistic fourth line that can PK, etc. I may actually go something along the lines of Cooke - Staal - Rust.

Prime Vokoun is a more consistent back-up in my eyes than MAF.

 

[Pens x]

In this hypothetical would it be prime Kunitz, or anyone, being in again or corpse on skates Kunitz?

I’d take some of the current ones out for prime Kunitz, Hossa, Staal, Gonchar. Prime Martin would be interesting as well and maybe Dupuis if he wasn’t treated like a demigod.

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Brassard-Hossa
Dupuis-Staal-Rust

Dumoulin-Letang
Gonchar-Martin
X-Schultz
Maybe just leave Maatta beside Schultz

Murray
Vokoun

So 12 or 13.




They also just weren’t very good at drafting defensemen. If you’re going to fixate on something you damn well better be great at it.

Yea, his drafting was absolutely abysmal. I was honestly surprised someone offered him a GM job after he was so incompetent here.

He is the reason why I hated Jimmy last year. His offseason last year reminded me of a typical Shero summer.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yea, his drafting was absolutely abysmal. I was honestly surprised someone offered him a GM job after he was so incompetent here.

He is the reason why I hated Jimmy last year. His offseason last year reminded me of a typical Shero summer.

His drafting was so abysmal it set up the core of support players for a back to back champion.

 

[EightyOne]

Shero is better than um ANY current Canadian GM....

Also, it's a good ol boys club. Yeah, you might mess up here and there, but, you'll always have a job somewhere.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

At his best, Pascal Dupuis was one of the finest players at his position in the NHL away from the puck. Defense, forechecking, support, PK, disruption, breakout, nz play, picks, screens, everything. He even picked up some of the Center's defensive duties to allow 87 to cheat for more offense. He did this, as @Aiastelmon mentioned, against the hardest competition there is.

Away from the puck, Neal was close to worthless mediocre (edit: 'close to worthless' was an overstatement). He'd take constant foolish, selfish minors, he'd wander out of the defensive zone before the Penguins got the puck, he'd take his time getting back after a turnover, wasn't much of a forechecker and he was only so-so about monitoring his passing or shooting lane. He was good at getting open for a shot (really good), but that was about it. Neal was never Perron-bad away from the puck, but he was certainly mediocre in most respects.

None of this is news though, billy. I acknowledged the huge difference in all-around play right off the hop, and made the Palat/Kessel analogy because of it.

Additionally, as has been mentioned, Neal was slightly less of an offensive threat at even strength. Its worth reiterating that Dupuis once lead the entire NHL in even strength production in a year that Crosby barely played. His scoring was always drastically underestimated during his peak. Plus, there's the versatility factor in that he played all three forward positions.

So the question boils down to: "was whatever Neal produced on the powerplay in excess of whoever would have replaced him enough to wipe out everything I just said above?"

The answer to that question isn't a given, but #9 has a whole lot working in his favor.

But..the answer to that question is obviously yes. Neal was the 2nd most prolific PP goal-scorer in the league over that period only after Ovechkin, and it wasn't close:

NHL.com - Stats

Ovy had 53 PP goals in 204GP, Neal had 38 PP goals in 179GP, and the closest anyone got to Neal was Simmonds with 32PPG in 209 GP. And in terms of PP points over that frame, to give some perspective, Neal had 72 PP points in 179GP (.40 P/G) while over the last 3 seasons Kessel has had 89 PP points in 246 games (.36 P/G).

If anyone thinks it was debatable about who was a more valuable player between Dupes and Neal, they're seriously underrating just how lethal he was on the PP. He was as important to our PP then as Kessel is now, if not moreso.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Original point being if Sprong develops into a Neal like player. He should produce regardless of where he plays.

In Neal's rookie season, he scored 15 ES goals playing beside Mike friggin Modano, who scored 46 points that year.

Which of Sheahan or Cullen do you think is most like Mike Modano? Which of them is likely to score 46 points this year?

Simon and Rust in my eyes should play above Sprong until Sprong proves he can produce in the show. And if he is the prospect he is supposed to be he should be able to do that with any of our centers as they all are at the very least average play makers.

Your point is either push down Hornqvist or Kessel for Sprong and swap Rust to the LW for Sprong to do that. Why not let the players all play their natural position and line up the logical roster.

Jake - Crosby - Hornqvist
Hagelin - Malkin - Kessel
Simon - Brassard - Rust
Cullen - Sheahan - Sprong

I don’t see any issue and I see Sprong being the logical move up if he proves he can stick and Rust / Hornqvist get their inevitable injuries. Hopefully like Sheary and Jake before him he takes the reigns and proves he belongs there.

1. Neither Kessel nor Hornqvist needs to be moved down. Like I said, I'm fine with Sprong anywhere in the top 9, which doesn't necessarily move anyone down. With our centers it really doesn't matter where they line up, though Rust-Brass-Kessel should be our default 3rd line if we want to roll 3 scoring lines that will genuinely make opposing coaches have to pick their poison. Simon-Brass-Rust is pretty underwhelming.

2. We should aim to line players up where the team is benefited most, not based on tenure. That's how we got Kunitz over Guentzel for far longer than we should have when the choice was clear.

3. RW is not Rust's natural position. He plays both wings (well, as I've previously shown) and has gone on record about not caring which side he lines up on.

 

[Rakell67]

Do we want a peak Hedberg, Tuggnut, Thibault or Vokoun as back-up tender?

If I could I’d take Vokoun but he was never at his peak while a Pen

 

[Rakell67]

Ha. When we acquired Hornqvist my sis was like who? I said kinda like another Kunitz, even tho they have differences.

 

[Rakell67]

In this hypothetical would it be prime Kunitz, or anyone, being in again or corpse on skates Kunitz?

I’d take some of the current ones out for prime Kunitz, Hossa, Staal, Gonchar. Prime Martin would be interesting as well and maybe Dupuis if he wasn’t treated like a demigod.

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Brassard-Hossa
Dupuis-Staal-Rust

Dumoulin-Letang
Gonchar-Martin
X-Schultz
Maybe just leave Maatta beside Schultz

Murray
Vokoun

So 12 or 13.




They also just weren’t very good at drafting defensemen. If you’re going to fixate on something you damn well better be great at it.

Give me Engelland as our #7 D. Always liked him. Maybe Asham as our #13 F, also a fav.

 

[billybudd]

At what exactly?

Well, he was disruptive, which can be good if you ignore the problem that he disrupted his own line by having little awareness of where any of his teammates were.

Lol

I certainly don't miss Harry Zjngsllskng

 

[billybudd]

Do we want a peak Hedberg, Tuggnut, Thibault or Vokoun as back-up tender?

Tugnut's peak was pretty impressive. It lasted, like, 2 weeks, but it was quite a 14 day experience.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'll also add that in our last 2 seasons with Neal ('12-'13 and '13-'14), we were 1st in the league in PP%.

The year after he left, we were 10th.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I'll also add that in our last 2 seasons with Neal ('12-'13 and '13-'14), we were 1st in the league in PP%.

The year after he left, we were 10th.

A big factor......

EDIT: Our PP2 and Letang’s goals were down too. If they were the same as the previous year we’d be 4th in the league.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

A big factor......

EDIT: Our PP2 and Letang’s goals were down too. If they were the same as the previous year we’d be 4th in the league.

Johnston was likely a factor.

But as far as Letang's concerned, he didn't even play half the season in '13-'14. He may have had fewer PP goals in '14-'15 but he had twice as many PP points as he did in '13-'14 (24 PPP to 12), so that doesn't hold water. If anything, that's another mark in Neal's favour.

And I imagine PP2 saw a dip because of Nisky's departure.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Johnston was likely a factor.

But as far as Letang's concerned, he didn't even play half the season in '13-'14. He may have had fewer PP goals in '14-'15 but he had twice as many PP points as he did in '13-'14 (24 PPP to 12), so that doesn't hold water. If anything, that's another mark in Neal's favour.

And I imagine PP2 saw a dip because of Nisky's departure.

My PP2 stats weren’t exact. I just took the goals on the PP less the 5 guys on PP1. No one plays full seasons here so there might be some crossover but I imagine that wouldn’t have helped PP2 anyways.

 

[NMK11]

Man, any way you look at it, our fourth line should be Cullen-Sheahan-Simon/Sprong/Rust/etc. What a huge improvement from the start of last year. Just hope we lean on our depth a little more during the regular season to keep the top guys fresh. Kind of makes me giddy.

 

[Gurglesons]

Man, any way you look at it, our fourth line should be Cullen-Sheahan-Simon/Sprong/Rust/etc. What a huge improvement from the start of last year. Just hope we lean on our depth a little more during the regular season to keep the top guys fresh. Kind of makes me giddy.

If are roster players play how we expect them to and do not have down years like a lot of them did last year and if Simon and Sprong play in the 20 pt range, I could see us actually winning a President’s trophy for once.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Yea, his drafting was absolutely abysmal. I was honestly surprised someone offered him a GM job after he was so incompetent here.

He is the reason why I hated Jimmy last year. His offseason last year reminded me of a typical Shero summer.

JR has been great but he did have a bad year. Coming off back to back cups he/they were pissed at the league from all of the head shots to the Pens(we barely hung on at times and the Sens series went to 7 because of it..starting that without a couple key players). So after they win they send a F U to the league and trade their first round pick(yeah I know they moved back 20 something spots but thats when the talent dropped off) for Reaves. Thats not a Pens type move, would have never made that trade if what I said above didnt happen.

So we lose out on D prospects like Hague, Timmins, etc. And other solid prospects. That class was deep...from about early 20s to mid 40s those guys were close in talent.

Should have taken the high road and kept the pick. Especially since we usually trade our 1st every year.

Hunwick was a mistake but that happens. He fixed that this offseason(one thing about JR thats a huge improvement over Shero). Yeah we had to lose as asset in Sheary but whatever.

I dont blame the Cullen situation on him...but Matts wife lol. Guy had it great in Pitt and a chance at history, yet forces him to go to Minny. Making that decision even worse is hes back the very next season. Cullen was the exact type we needed in the playoffs when we had those injuries. He could have been the difference in the Caps series(not only with his own play but helping others improve theirs). He stepped up against them in 2017 and one of the reasons we beat them in 7.

Trade deadline. Going for the big splash instead of a couple smaller moves to round out the team. We could have added Plekanec as 4C and Sheahan sticking at 3C where he was playing well. And then added a solid dman with the money left over. Without giving up a 1st, Gus, Cole, and Reaves(who now looking back at it...not only did we trade a first for him but I would have loved to have had him in the Caps series).

As much as people hate on Cole, hes the type we needed against the Caps. Dont compare what he did with Columbus against them because they arent us.

Wasnt JR's best season, BUT we did get very unlucky being healthy all damn season(rookies not really getting experience like in previous years) yet 4 top players getting hurt right before and during the playoffs start. Brassard being one of them so we will be able to judge that trade much better this year.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Shero is better than um ANY current Canadian GM....

Also, it's a good ol boys club. Yeah, you might mess up here and there, but, you'll always have a job somewhere.

Is that saying much though?

GM Chevy is a good GM though, I'll give him that, but he's the only good Canadian team GM. The Jets have so much young talent, they are primed to be a solid playoff team for a long time because of it. Even if they lose some guys, their veteran stars, through free agency because of being priced out, they have so much decent young talent that they wouldn't miss a beat.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Players at their peak with us.

Cullen. And not Johnny.

Helps us win 2 straight cups. Leaves and the Caps finally beat us and win a cup? Say no more...hes the missing piece. But its a shame we could have won 4 straight cups instead of 3 out of 4.

Oh well.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Is that saying much though?

GM Chevy is a good GM though, I'll give him that, but he's the only good Canadian team GM. The Jets have so much young talent, they are primed to be a solid playoff team for a long time because of it. Even if they lose some guys, their veteran stars, through free agency because of being priced out, they have so much decent young talent that they wouldn't miss a beat.

This has been going on for so long with Canadian teams it has to be the fact they face much more pressure to compete for the playoffs each year that they end up making dumb moves setting their teams back. Instead of just ignoring the fans/media and being patient which we are finally starting to see. I like what the Jets have done, and even the Leafs. Flames too. Besides passing up on Fleury.

 

[Son Goku]

At what exactly?

Faceoffs

 

[Pens x]

His drafting was so abysmal it set up the core of support players for a back to back champion.

You could fill a division of ECHL teams consisting of Shero’s draft picks and “low risk, high reward” signings.