Salary Cap Crunch Part 2- The Capocalypse

Status
Not open for further replies.

JaegerDice

The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
Dec 26, 2014
25,265
9,583
In 2013 Bolland and Frolik were traded ridiculously quick. Don't remember on 2010. Then in 2014 it was so freaking weird why the Leddy trade dragged on for so long.

I want Bowman to strike early again. The longer it drags, the worse it will be.

I also wonder what they do with Rundblad. We'll see how he plays. It isn't inconceivable that he might have some small value for a trade, or maybe he's fed up and just goes back to Sweden.

Alot of small, interesting stuff besides the big Bickell and Sharp stuff.


If you believe McKenzie, the Blackhawks were shopping Oduya at the draft.

So it seems like Stan wanted to move Oduya, but ultimately decided to keep him and move Leddy instead, either because the value wasn't being offered for Oduya, or because Q pushed to keep him over Leddy.
 

Taze em

Registered User
Apr 20, 2012
8,363
636
If you believe McKenzie, the Blackhawks were shopping Oduya at the draft.

So it seems like Stan wanted to move Oduya, but ultimately decided to keep him and move Leddy instead, either because the value wasn't being offered for Oduya, or because Q pushed to keep him over Leddy.

And Versteeg too. He was shopping Oduya and Versteeg according to rumor.
 

LordKOTL

Abuse of Officials
Aug 15, 2014
3,525
768
Pacific NW
He had a whole year to negotiate Crawford's next deal, not like he had to sign him at what was pretty much guaranteed to be peak value.
The flipside to that was Crawford just came off of a Conn Smythe performance when he signed his extenstion after 2013--not to mention co-won a Jennings. Both the 'hawks and Crawford had incentives to get the deal in early:

If Crawford stumbled in a year he's looking at a lot less, so it make sense for him to buy-in high.

If Crawford had another regular season like 2015 (another co-Jennings--and this one was not the sole result of a rock solid team D in front of him, 'cause it wasn't), the team's looking at a lot more to sign him.

2014 year the team didn't yet have Raanta or Darling on the books. Even if they were signed in as they were going into 2015 your goalie depth was an *unproven* Raanta and darling who were, at the time, unknown quanitites. The brass knoing that they had a Jennings-caliber, Smythe-worthy goalie who helped them get their second cup in three years gave the team ample reason to sign early and hedge against Crawford putting in a possible Vezina-caliber year, or even another Jennings year.

Plus, looking at the goaltending prices out there--Crawford is not overpaid. Schneider, Miller, MAF, Smith, etc. Crawford is in that grouping. Blame the market for the prices. If, per se, Darling could make Nashville Game 1 performances night-in and night out--he'd be looking at Lundqvist money, not 6M.

In other words, it wasn't guarenteed peak value.

If a team really wants to trade a player with a NMC or NTC do you really think the player is going to deny every possible trade?

If you know you're not wanted somewhere you usually don't make it a point to stay.
Perhaps not, but consider the alternative. If Stan wants to trade Crawford to the Hockey black hole that's Edmonton, do you stay where you're to wanted or go to a team that's in perpetual misery that should have been on the cusp of breaking out since our first cup--but never did because the team is as well-run as any bureaucracy? Crawford's not as old as Luongo and is not riding out to retirement.

Crawford still has the potential for another deal after this one is over. He's goign to maximize the return on it--and you an't do it in a place that looks stuck at the bottom. That makes moving Crawford as cap relief and nothing else a dicey prospect if your intent is to keep all other 5m+ players. He probably won't agree to a deal stuck on a team mired in mediocrity from the top down (see also: Pullford/WWW era hawks), and outside of that, only a small handfull of teams can take on his contract without sending anyone back--if they'd even want to.

Asuming Sharp is moved for the cap relief (his loss can be as-easily mitigated as Crawford--if not more), Crawford could move since cap could come back on his deal, but IMHO I don't think Crawford/Bickell alone will be enough.
Do we know that the Blackhawks completely trusted Crawford at that point? He was coming off the poor series with Phoenix were the Hawks lost because Mike Smith was much better than Crawford. I don't think the Hawks would have wanted to lock him up at that point.
Perhaps not--but we should thank the Hockey Gods (Herb Brooks be thy name), that we're not stuck with Mike Smith. Since Smith signed his deal (which, in cap terms, affected AZ's cap more than Crawford's 6M affected the 'hawks in the 1st year), he has been far, far, far worse than Crawford--even the 2012 Sophomore Slump Crawford.
 

DPHawk

Registered User
Oct 31, 2013
1,543
22
What are you trying to say?

That it was nothing like a Butler situation because Crawford was much worse the next year. Crawford signed an extension as soon as he was eligible to and Stan negotiated at the top of the market when he had the entire 2013-14 season to get a better price (or come up with a contingency plan).
 

DPHawk

Registered User
Oct 31, 2013
1,543
22
The flipside to that was Crawford just came off of a Conn Smythe performance when he signed his extenstion after 2013--not to mention co-won a Jennings. Both the 'hawks and Crawford had incentives to get the deal in early:

If Crawford stumbled in a year he's looking at a lot less, so it make sense for him to buy-in high.

If Crawford had another regular season like 2015 (another co-Jennings--and this one was not the sole result of a rock solid team D in front of him, 'cause it wasn't), the team's looking at a lot more to sign him.

2014 year the team didn't yet have Raanta or Darling on the books. Even if they were signed in as they were going into 2015 your goalie depth was an *unproven* Raanta and darling who were, at the time, unknown quanitites. The brass knoing that they had a Jennings-caliber, Smythe-worthy goalie who helped them get their second cup in three years gave the team ample reason to sign early and hedge against Crawford putting in a possible Vezina-caliber year, or even another Jennings year.

Plus, looking at the goaltending prices out there--Crawford is not overpaid. Schneider, Miller, MAF, Smith, etc. Crawford is in that grouping. Blame the market for the prices. If, per se, Darling could make Nashville Game 1 performances night-in and night out--he'd be looking at Lundqvist money, not 6M.

In other words, it wasn't guarenteed peak value.

OK, yes it was guaranteed to be peak value but considering the number of goalies making over 6M it was extremely unlikely that his value would increase significantly. That offseason the highest paid goaltenders were:
Rinne/Rask- 7M
Lundqvist- 6.9M
Price/Miller/Ward 6.5M or less

So even if he established himself as one of the top 2 or 3 goalies it wouldn't have cost much more than 1M and I think the upside of waiting is much higher than that (especially considering the 6 years and NMC).
 

Bubba88

Toews = Savior
Nov 8, 2009
30,004
764
Bavaria
That it was nothing like a Butler situation because Crawford was much worse the next year. Crawford signed an extension as soon as he was eligible to and Stan negotiated at the top of the market when he had the entire 2013-14 season to get a better price (or come up with a contingency plan).

what if Crawford wins a Jennings that year and waits it out? Plays good POs and wins a 2nd Cup...

He could test the market and get 8+ Million from a dumb GM in that case.


Crawford isn't overpaid. He's paid market value.
 

DPHawk

Registered User
Oct 31, 2013
1,543
22
what if Crawford wins a Jennings that year and waits it out? Plays good POs and wins a 2nd Cup...

He could test the market and get 8+ Million from a dumb GM in that case.

I went over a hypothetical where Crawford goes on another tear in 2013-14 and it would be pretty difficult for him to do significantly better than the 6x6 he got (Henrik is the only goalie over 7M this season). And had Crawford won 2 cups and received Jennings caliber defense, would he really pass on a 6x6 offer from the Hawks (or slightly more) to take 8M from a far inferior team?

Crawford isn't overpaid. He's paid market value.

The Hawks have a ton of talent, they can't afford to pay everyone market value. Had Stan waited until the regular season I think he could have cut a better deal with Crawford.
 

Bubba88

Toews = Savior
Nov 8, 2009
30,004
764
Bavaria
he couldn't. Crawford would have been getting more testing the market.
That's just the Salary Cap. You have to pay your Talent to Keep it. When you have as much Talent as we do, this happens.

Not that hard to understand. Pretty sure Bowman wanted to Keep him 7 years 1 Million per year ;)
 

Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
187,522
21,015
Chicagoland
In 2013 Bolland and Frolik were traded ridiculously quick. Don't remember on 2010. Then in 2014 it was so freaking weird why the Leddy trade dragged on for so long.

I want Bowman to strike early again. The longer it drags, the worse it will be.

I also wonder what they do with Rundblad. We'll see how he plays. It isn't inconceivable that he might have some small value for a trade, or maybe he's fed up and just goes back to Sweden.

Alot of small, interesting stuff besides the big Bickell and Sharp stuff.

Those trades happened quick because the lockout meant season ended late in June and draft came right shortly after cup
 

ozzzie19

Registered User
May 13, 2015
530
260
I can't see this actually happening, but what about something like Sharp for Plekanec at 50%. It clears $3.4m in cap space and would be similar to the idea of signing Richards for this season. Except they're bringing in a better center at a similar cap hit.

Plekanec has one year left at $5m, and put up 26 goals and 60 points last season. I doubt Montreal would be willing to retain salary though, especially 50%.

I don't see Montreal retaining salary in that deal, as it would essentially be swapping out Plekanec for an 8.5M cap hit Sharp. But I do think it would be a good deal for both teams to strike a deal with Sharp and Plekanec as the centerpieces. Montreal needs scoring bad and the Hawks need a second line center (when have they not?). Yes, Pleks is only signed for one more year, but he seems like a player who they might want to retain as a UFA. With no salary retained you'd have to more or less go young guys for the rest of the open spots, but you get to roughly a 70M payroll by going:

Saad-Toews-Kane
TT-Plekanec-Hossa
Panarin-Tikhonov-McNeil/Ross/Hartman
McNeil/Ross/Hartman-Kruger-Danault
13th F

Keith-Johns
TVR-Hammer
Reilly/Pokka-Seabrook
7th D

Crawford
Darling

I'm guessing a promise to sign Tikhonov was part of the deal to lure Panarin. The back end is young, but filled with damn good prospects.
 

topnotch

Registered User
Oct 20, 2010
1,478
1
OK, yes it was guaranteed to be peak value but considering the number of goalies making over 6M it was extremely unlikely that his value would increase significantly. That offseason the highest paid goaltenders were:
Rinne/Rask- 7M
Lundqvist- 6.9M
Price/Miller/Ward 6.5M or less

So even if he established himself as one of the top 2 or 3 goalies it wouldn't have cost much more than 1M and I think the upside of waiting is much higher than that (especially considering the 6 years and NMC).

Quick and Luongo had back-diving deals with salaries of 7 million and 6.7 million respectively. Also Lehtonen signed for 5.9, Smith for 5.667, Bobrovsky for 5.625, and Howard for 5.29.

Crawford at 6 million wasn't much of an over payment considering he won a Cup and was exceptional in those playoffs.
 

topnotch

Registered User
Oct 20, 2010
1,478
1
I'm also interested on the timeline of Bowman's deals this summer. He can't possibly go into training camp again this year.

The order of operations to me looks like:
1)Re-sign Saad during the parade
2) Trade Sharp/Versteeg before the draft.
3) Draft
4)Play hardball with Kruger, maybe even let him look for an OS?
5) Trade Bickell in training camp?

If the Hawks don't offer a contract to Kruger's liking, he'll opt for arbitration.
 

Piffle

Registered User
Oct 31, 2007
1,552
152
Really weird how we were short on righty dmen for so long, now we are short on lefties. Though it is nice to have some D prospects that will actually (probably) be top 4-5 quality.
 

Milos Krasic

Best Serbian Footballer (2009) / Serie A Winner
Jul 1, 2008
1,827
43
Rundblad's KHL rights have been traded to SKA St. Petersburg. Panarin for Rundblad swap? ;)

Well done Hawks.
 

JaegerDice

The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
Dec 26, 2014
25,265
9,583
Promise? :laugh:

He's a 17 point 4C.


Advanced stats are available for arbitration now. Kruger need only point to the fact that he takes far and away the most defensive starts on the team to raise his value.

I'm not particularly worried about it though. Kruger is far too critical to the Blackhawks for Stan to let him walk this off-season. He'll get a deal done, even if it means moving another depth body out.
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
31,685
11,058
London, Ont.
Sure, advanced stats help him, but who does he have as a comparable to use them as leverage?

At the end of the day, he is a 20pt player who plays a defensive role. 2mil?
 

Pepe Silvia

Registered User
Jan 2, 2012
8,915
0
Chicago
Yeah if they had to, I think they'd even trade Shaw to keep Kruger. Hopefully it doesn't come to that, and ideally they just trade Versteeg if they need the extra space.
 

JaegerDice

The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
Dec 26, 2014
25,265
9,583
Sure, advanced stats help him, but who does he have as a comparable to use them as leverage?

At the end of the day, he is a 20pt player who plays a defensive role. 2mil?

Yeah, I figure he'll get between 2 and 2.5.
 

TorMenT

Go Blackhawks!
Sponsor
Oct 24, 2011
6,229
225
Rockford, IL
These are the lines I'd like to see next year if possible. Replace TVR/Pokka with a Vet D if you don't like the youth. Replace McNeill/Danault with a cheap vet forward if you don't like the youth or one of them doesn't make the team.

Panarin-Toews-Kane
Saad-Teravainen-Hossa
McNeill-Danault-Shaw
Desi-Kruger-Hartman

Keith-Seabrook
Hjalmarsson-Johns
TVR-Pokka
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad