Sabres Head Coach Search 2

[Ice9]

Doan kind of interesting. I'd say a younger guy to grow with that group would be nice but also understand an older, mentoring coach. I go young...never liked all the retreads.

 

[GellMann]

The only thing that can convince me whether a hire is good or not comes years after the fact, when I see what years of the coach's style and development abilities does to the team's ability to get shit done on the ice.

 

[debaser66]

I have the feeling he will hire a neolithic coach.
I hope I am wrong

All he has shown so far is quite unflexible and backward..more an accountant than an actual manager.

The good experienced coaches are off the market so I hope he doesn't stick to his conviction

 

[UnleashRasmus]

I want Keefe so bad, a young coach not even 40 yet, who can lead us back to the playoffs and be here for 10+ years.

Look at the list of players who have and are flourishing under him.

Nylander
Kapanen
Hyman
Brown
Johnsson
Moore
Dermott
Grunstrom
Leivo
Sandin
Rosen
Bracco

Good scouting, good organization sure but Keefe has to be given ample credit.

I totally agree with you. Keefe, has won at every level so far. He could possibly win a second consecutive Calder Cup. This is what we need, a clear voice.

 

[Buffalo Norsemen]

Yep, some of us will not forget his day in Buffalo to drive his price up in Toronto. (the day Paul Hamilton got burned as well)

If the Leafs fire Babcock, I’d love to bring him in for an interview, they tell him to F off.

Does Yzerman bring Babcock back to Detroit?

 

[brian_griffin]

I'd like something to happen just to have something happen.

Ron Paul for next Sabres coach???

This is some major league speculation. I doubt most of the players would know either if they hit them with their car (bonus points for getting the Pat Burns/Bill Berg reference!). Who gives a **** what the fans in the area think, most fans aren't particularly knowledgeable to begin with.

Anyone think Gronborg could accept an assistant position?

Maybe Martin and Gronberg are Tippet's assistants.

Not terribly far-fetched. Sabres need leadership. Leadership is different from coaching. Coaching and leadership are different from motivation. etc., etc., I posted several pages back a mutli-headed approach may be best. Trying to find a silver-bullet candidate to fill all roles... If one doesn't exist, do you allow a deficiency to go unchecked, or do you fill it in other ways?

Sorry but Tippet is only going to be a head coach, he wont become an assistant especially to Gronberg who is inexperienced.

I dont know what you guys see about Gronberg? He gets to coach the best players of Sweden, he doesnt have mediocre players like Buffalo does.

He would be in way over his head, put Gronberg down in Rochester first.

Similarly, why would Gronberg agree to go to Rochester? And why would BUF put him there when they have Taylor?

Botts is learning in every interview with a veteran NHL coach how poor his ROR trade is viewed... so now he's sending out the message that he'll let coaches work with talent (Risto) and not just throw the coach under the bus with his trades.

I want the next Sabres coach to have no problem calling out Botterill for the ROR trade, regardless of whether Botts did it on his own or was directed to by Pegulas and say to all of them - Jason, Kim, Terry - "You ever pull another trade that stinks as bad as that one reeks while I'm coaching your team, then you'll need a new coach come Sept. 1."

Those Coyotes teams had virtually no high end talent on paper but they played with a TON of structure. He's shown he can win in that situation, and in a more talented situation in Dallas. He is IMO one of the best candidates on the market, I just think most of us felt he was committed to Seattle. Also, almost all of the teams left in the playoffs play very good defensive hockey, so not sure why you sneer at that notion.. It's crucial come the post season. This team is in desperate need for structure.

This quote is regarding his time in Dallas.

"We had a player that was supposed to be a great, shut-down defenseman. He was supposedly the be-all, end-all of defensemen. But when you did a 10-game analysis of him, you found out he was defending all the time because he can’t move the puck.
"Then we had another guy, who supposedly couldn’t defend a lick. Well, he was defending only 20 percent of the time because he’s making good plays out of our end. He may not be the strongest defender, but he’s only doing it 20 percent of the time. So the equation works out better the other way. I ended up trading the other defenseman."
Dave Tippett And Thinking About Defense Differently

From a more recent article when he joined Seattle, regarding analytics:

“It’s a useful tool,” he said. “I’ve done my own analytics program since I started coaching. I had a whole system that I’ve built through that XOS. Some numbers like Fenwick and Corsi, they’re garbage. They’re garbage because they come off the stats upstairs. Every stat that I keep comes off a video that I watch, a scoring chance that I’ve watched and whose involved in it.”
Dave Tippett hired to set up NHL Seattle's foundation - NHL to SEATTLE

that's the Sobotka dilemma in a nutshell. tons of d-zone TOI because he can never gain possession / clear the zone. Unlike Housley, Tippett would include a bus ticket with his report card to Vlad.

Why don’t NHL GMs dip into the college coaching pool more often? Seems like a good source

A lot easier to mold and motivate youth in a common situation, who haven't cashed in yet, and know no demonstrably different alternative in life. Aside from the physical fitness / health aspects, it's also one reason why the American military in draft-era times, sought 19 year-olds as their largest age cohort for drafting.

The next stage of their development is learning how to work in a system something a coach like Tippet can provide.

@Chainshot @Jame you guys should be more specific on what type of development you mean because if its fundamental and Eichel and Reinhart haven't learned that yet than we are in trouble.

Sabres are in trouble. Eichel needs to learn how to play a 200-foot game, dominate possession on more shifts, play with intensity on all shifts, routinely make those around him better, etc. A player like ROR (only using as example) makes 70% of #9's $$$ and delivers the same counting stats but 50% more total-game impact.

If two guys who are entering their 5th season in the NHL need to be developed then that's one hell of an indictment of this organization.

Right, which is why we are where we are. All we read from top NHL stars is how much they LEARN AND DEVELOP in the NHL from THEIR COACHES. NHL'ers are drafted on potential. They stay on performance and growth. Only a fraction of that is physical maturation.

a lot of players (I would say most) learn to develop their game in the offseason where they can get 1 on 1 coaching from a trainer whether its bulking up or working on a shot to thinking the defensive side of the game. [Not denying your point, but meaningless if not applied in a team system, with teammates. Develop a better shot, but with no increase in opportunities to use it because it's not integrated into the team/system, then it dies on the vine, just like any other skill in any other job which isn't given an opportunity to flourish.]

The main Sabres team doesnt need a coach to hold Eichel or Reinhart hands anymore going into their 5th season.

Develop players in the feeder system because this is why we set Rochester up or develop them in the offseason if they devote time to getting training.

In 30-35 years of employment, I've never seen an organization choose its method of team improvement to be one where individuals work on things on their own time, without also (and in majority proportion) working on it collectively / in an integrated manner.

No. Its them failing themselves from actually taking time out from learning. There are plenty of trainers/ex players willing to work with you in the off season. I can almost bet every single coach (even Housley) has pointed out flaws in their game to them. Its then on them to correct it themselves. The coach cant magically play for you to correct the mistakes once they are pointed out. It's on the coach to explain their mistake and for the player themselves to learn how they made their mistake and to practice and correct it.

But not devoid of a team system to integrate the improvements. Your rigid reasoning was also causing several of us to take umbrage in the Tage Thompson thread. Developmental need is a continuum, and different for all individuals, regardless of job / field of work, and regardless of age / career length. Your reasoning sometimes comes across as though it stops at the NHL level, and particularly in-season, surrounded by teammates doing the same job as each other. It's a peculiar stance. It infers one of three possibilities, or combinations:
1) Most or all of the non-Sabre NHLers are developing themselves in the offseason, whereas the Sabres eschew such personal development.
2) Ex-Sabre NHLers - an in particular the successful ones - suddenly begin personal offseason development when joining their new teams. They do not develop during the NHL season at the NHL level.
3) NHLers who join BUF as new Sabres stop their off-season personal development.

Isn't it far more plausible that all players develop continuously over some portion of their career arc, regardless of the level (college, overseas, AHL, NHL), and the Sabres have been bad at it at the NHL level for ~5 years or so, for a variety of reasons?

can we coax Doan out of retirement?

If I had tens of millions of dollars raising a family living in the valley of the sun where I am beloved and valued, why do I come to Buffalo to coach?

lol the Leafs can't force Keefe as an assistant on Babcock, especially in Toronto, would be a sideshow that blows up into an epic disaster.

It's like a middle aged husband announcing to his wife 'I've got grrrrreat news honey. I hired us a live in nanny. She's 23 years old, an amazing girl, a former bikini model, speaks 4 languages, has a masters degree in Human Sexuality, loves children and older men!'

She's over-qualified for the nanny job, but if she knows a little hockey, I'd throw her name in the hat for the Sabres job.

 

[Buffaloed]

Tomorrow is Grönborg Day
Boustedt: Grönborg is 'a good developer, a winner, and a good teacher'
Grönborg is expected to speak with Howard and Jeremy on Friday morning when he joins the show at 6:30 a.m. EDT (12:30 p.m. local time in Sweden).

 

[valet]

If the Leafs fire Babcock, I’d love to bring him in for an interview, they tell him to F off.

Does Yzerman bring Babcock back to Detroit?

if Stevie y is smart (which most of the hockey world thinks he is) there's no way he tries to bring Babs back to Detroit. he hasn't even managed to get one of the most talented rosters in the world out of the 1st round of the playoffs yet.....

 

[jBuds]

Late to the party... I didn’t think for a second that Tippett was a name in the equation. I thought he was pretty locked in to that expansion situation out there.


Any chance the VGK news means McPhee takes another turn at the expansion role with Seattle?

 

[Jim Bob]

Late to the party... I didn’t think for a second that Tippett was a name in the equation. I thought he was pretty locked in to that expansion situation out there.

Any chance the VGK news means McPhee takes another turn at the expansion role with Seattle?

I doubt McPhee leaves Vegas, but you never know.

I think it was just a move to keep McC around and McPhee will still be heavily involved in things moving forward.

 

[Jim Bob]

They talk a lot about Babcock to Buffalo or Edmonton in theory and if Toronto would be better served to trade Babcock or to keep him.

 

[wnysupport]

They talk a lot about Babcock to Buffalo or Edmonton in theory and if Toronto would be better served to trade Babcock or to keep him.

They can keep him, do not want. Not just because he used us but because some of his adjustments or better yet lack of them are no bueno

 

[Jim Bob]

Lots more tweets out there with snippets of the interview.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[TehDoak]

They talk a lot about Babcock to Buffalo or Edmonton in theory and if Toronto would be better served to trade Babcock or to keep him.

I'm reasonably sure the leafs can't simply trade Babcock like a player. If that were the case, teams, since they have to pay out their contract anyways if they fire them, would simply re-assign them to "Special assistant scout" or some other bullshit role, and make teams pay them assets for them. Now, if another team wanted Babcock (and he wanted to go there), the teams could come to an agreement to let Babcock out of his contract so he could sign there.

Babcock isn't going to get a call "You've been traded to Edmonton, pack your shit"

 

[Fjordy]

Even if Babcock was already free, I wouldn't have followed him, at least not right away. Options Gronborg, Keefe and Tippett look for me more interesting.

 

[Jim Bob]

I'm reasonably sure the leafs can't simply trade Babcock like a player. If that were the case, teams, since they have to pay out their contract anyways if they fire them, would simply re-assign them to "Special assistant scout" or some other bull**** role, and make teams pay them assets for them. Now, if another team wanted Babcock (and he wanted to go there), the teams could come to an agreement to let Babcock out of his contract so he could sign there.

Babcock isn't going to get a call "You've been traded to Edmonton, pack your ****"

They talked about in the segment.

They talked to someone from the league and it sounds like a situation where he can't be traded, but that they can talk things through where the Leafs release him and he signs with Team X and the Leafs get pre-arranged compensation.

For the conversation, they were talking about a 3rd or 4th rounder.

I forget who it was, but one of the panelists was like "I can't see Babcock being OK with that. He'll just tell the Leafs to fire him if they want to fire him and then he can make whatever decision he wants with respect to where he coaches next."

 

[Jim Bob]

Even if Babcock was already free, I wouldn't have followed him, at least not right away. Options Gronborg, Keefe and Tippett look for me more interesting.

If Babcock were on the open market, then I'm guessing Keefe is off the market as he is the logical replacement in Toronto.

 

[Buffalo Norsemen]

Jeff Blair - Sportsnet on WGR this morning...

"If I poll my insiders right now 7 out of 10 would say Babcock will not be back in Toronto"

"I see Kyle Dubas will sit down with Babcock after the AHL playoffs and insist that Sheldon Keefe will be on the Maple Leafs staff next season"

 

[Team Cozens]

They talk a lot about Babcock to Buffalo or Edmonton in theory and if Toronto would be better served to trade Babcock or to keep him.

They totally miss understood the 31 Thoughts quote as they position it as if the Sabres asked to speak to Babcock. The real issue ~ question was what happens if the Sabres ask to speak to Keefe.

 

[Jim Bob]

If Babcock were on the open market, then I'm guessing Keefe is off the market as he is the logical replacement in Toronto.

I think Dubas looked at what Vegas did and he's going to try and play a game where he doesn't lose Keefe to another club.

 

[Chainshot]

Lots more tweets out there with snippets of the interview.

Thanks! I will give a listen shortly!

 

[Jim Bob]

Thanks! I will give a listen shortly!

You will have to listen for me. WGR is blocked by the work firewall...

 

[Chainshot]

You will have to listen for me. WGR is blocked by the work firewall...

Sounds like something that would’ve been classified under a productivity issue on my old company’s firewall.

 

[Jim Bob]

Sounds like something that would’ve been classified under a productivity issue on my old company’s firewall.

They just block anything that comes up as a streaming service.

But, you can get to YT & Vimeo.

And honestly, with cell phones today, it's not like blocking stuff at the firewall does a ton.