Confirmed with Link: Ryan O'Reilly traded to STL for Tage Thompson, Patrik Berglund, Vladimir Sobotka, 2019 1st, 2021 2nd

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WeDislikeEich

Registered User
Jun 22, 2015
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So... the players most damaged by the incompetence of their coaches are the prickliest?
Are you going for some record for negative posts in a row that I don’t know about?

Is it some Guinness Book of World Records thing?


Lol (j/k around. Well, sort of anyway...)
 

struckbyaparkedcar

Guilty of Being Right
Mar 1, 2008
18,243
1,847
Upstate NY
Are you going for some record for negative posts in a row that I don’t know about?

Is it some Guinness Book of World Records thing?


Lol (j/k around. Well, sort of anyway...)
It’s disappointing that someone paid to cover the team (and hired by the “smart” website) can’t connect the dots between the players with the most difficult roles and their supposed cultural issues.

But he’s a Housley fanboy so I’m not totally shocked.
 

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
78,700
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slip

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Aug 19, 2005
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How about “watch everything they do” not just “look at these cherrypicked examples” so you can complain.

They’ve also added Mitts, Sheary, Wilson, Oglevie, Pilut and Hickey. They’re getting an enormous influx of young, fast talented players coming this season.

Most of the deadweight falls away the next two years. Our cap situation is pretty wide open when Mitts’ ELC expires in two seasons. We currently only have 6 guys under contract at that point.

They’re not where they need to be yet but are well on their way.
Five of the top 6 paid forwards on this team are now currently over 30 and slow AF. Botts is adding shit contracts faster than we're able to ditch them.

Wilson, Oglevie, Pilut, Hickey, and Sheary are marginal NHL talent at best -- bottom six, third pair guys. Half that list might not even make it to the NHL. Aside from lucking into Dahlin, this team has done very little to address getting the kind of players (young, fast, talented) it claims it's wants in order to play their preferred system. And guys seemingly ill suited for the system -- Larsson, Girgensons -- are still around. And guys not fit for any system -- Bogosian, Beaulieu -- are being counted on to produce yet again.

We're on the road to nowhere.
 

Royal Thunder

Frolunda Mode
Feb 21, 2012
4,407
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Five of the top 6 paid forwards on this team are now currently over 30 and slow AF. Botts is adding **** contracts faster than we're able to ditch them.

Wilson, Oglevie, Pilut, Hickey, and Sheary are marginal NHL talent at best -- bottom six, third pair guys. Half that list might not even make it to the NHL. Aside from lucking into Dahlin, this team has done very little to address getting the kind of players (young, fast, talented) it claims it's wants in order to play their preferred system. And guys seemingly ill suited for the system -- Larsson, Girgensons -- are still around. And guys not fit for any system -- Bogosian, Beaulieu -- are being counted on to produce yet again.

We're on the road to nowhere.
Sheary a marginal NHL talent at best? What?

This is a shockingly negative take about the team with the best young 1C/1D combo in the league and a ton of nice prospects on the way. The only one of those vet contracts that could really be a hamper longterm is Okposo and Botts didn't sign him.
 

JThorne

Stop accepting failure
Jul 21, 2006
4,823
815
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The thing about Ristolainen, he's been playing DURING games so much, can anyone really fault him for trying to rest up as much as possible when not playing? If his minutes were cut down to a respectable level, maybe he'll hang around with the guys more. But now we're talking about coaching and Housley getting his head out of his ass.
 
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Gabrielor

"Win with us or watch us win." - Rasmus Dahlin
Jun 28, 2011
13,458
13,952
Buffalo, NY
If Jack lives up to that 1C 10 million billing, score 90+ points, a whole lot of perceived problems will vanish overnight
 

brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
16,695
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Five of the top 6 paid forwards on this team are now currently over 30 and slow AF. Botts is adding **** contracts faster than we're able to ditch them.

Wilson, Oglevie, Pilut, Hickey, and Sheary are marginal NHL talent at best -- bottom six, third pair guys. Half that list might not even make it to the NHL. Aside from lucking into Dahlin, this team has done very little to address getting the kind of players (young, fast, talented) it claims it's wants in order to play their preferred system. And guys seemingly ill suited for the system -- Larsson, Girgensons -- are still around. And guys not fit for any system -- Bogosian, Beaulieu -- are being counted on to produce yet again.

We're on the road to nowhere.


If Jack lives up to that 1C 10 million billing, score 90+ points, a whole lot of perceived problems will vanish overnight
No guarantee the Sabres sniff the playoffs if he does that. I'd rather see <1.0 ppg and better defensive awareness and impact from him. Seeing defensive awareness and impact would give me more hope for the future than 90 points. Heck, he could get 90 points by staying healthy for a full year and still being craptastic in his own end.
 
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Montag DP

Sabres fan in...
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No guarantee the Sabres sniff the playoffs if he does that. I'd rather see <1.0 ppg and better defensive awareness and impact from him. Seeing defensive awareness and impact would give me more hope for the future than 90 points. Heck, he could get 90 points by staying healthy for a full year and still being craptastic in his own end.
If you watched him last year and didn't see big strides defensively, you weren't watching very closely. But he's not ROR in his own end, so that's what everyone keeps repeating.
 
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ZZamboni

Puttin' on the Foil
Sep 25, 2010
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Eichel’s defensive chops last season.

Big strides? Didn’t see that.

Small Improvement? I did see that.


I’d like Eichel to become a wizard at the dot and get better defensively. This team sooo needs that now that ROR is gone. I don’t need him to be a 95 pt. defensive swiss cheese who has a 38% faceoff win player. No thanks.
If he develops into a 50%+ faceoff win/solid two way/75-85 pt. dynamic leader ... I’m content.
 
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brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
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If you watched him last year and didn't see big strides defensively, you weren't watching very closely. But he's not ROR in his own end, so that's what everyone keeps repeating.
If he made big strides, he needs to make bigger ones. I'll be ecstatic to see it.

Sabres don't need him to be ROR, or even what people think / project ROR is.
 

Montag DP

Sabres fan in...
Apr 4, 2007
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Eichel’s defensive chops last season.

Big strides? Didn’t see that.

Small Improvement? I did see that.
I'll put it this way. His first two seasons, you could say he was "craptastic" in his own zone. Last season, he was much more engaged and seemed to at least realize what he needed to do, even if he still has a way to go. And of course, the entire team got regularly hemmed in their own zone (yes, even ROR's line), so you can't really judge solely based on results. The effort was there on a much more regular basis, and I would call that big strides.
 

Vito_81

Registered User
Jul 23, 2006
9,956
1,225
Toronto
Eichel’s defensive chops last season.

Big strides? Didn’t see that.

Small Improvement? I did see that.


I’d like Eichel to become a wizard at the dot and get better defensively. This team sooo needs that now that ROR is gone. I don’t need him to be a 95 pt. defensive swiss cheese who has a 38% faceoff win player. No thanks.

If he develops into a 50%+ faceoff win/solid two way/75-85 pt. dynamic leader ... I’m content.

I’d rather he becomes what we drafted him to be.

You can always trade a handful of okay pieces (right Botts?) to get an ROR. Can’t really do the same to land a top 5 point guy in the league.

I Don’t think the Avs minded MacKinnon’s faceoff percentage last season. He’s also not the greatest defensively, but his incresed offensive game definitely helped in that regard as well.

Your main point is fair. Yes Jack needs to improve defensively, which he has progessed at each season.

A 95 point, dynamic leader while being adequate in his own end and on draws should have you just as content.
 

Aladyyn

they praying for the death of a rockstar
Apr 6, 2015
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I don't care whether he does it via offense or defense, I just want to see him lead a line with >50% shot share. That would be a good start.
 

jBuds

pretty damn valuable
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I’d rather he becomes what we drafted him to be.

You can always trade a handful of okay pieces (right Botts?) to get an ROR. Can’t really do the same to land a top 5 point guy in the league.

I Don’t think the Avs minded MacKinnon’s faceoff percentage last season. He’s also not the greatest defensively, but his incresed offensive game definitely helped in that regard as well.

Your main point is fair. Yes Jack needs to improve defensively, which he has progessed at each season.

A 95 point, dynamic leader while being adequate in his own end and on draws should have you just as content.
A not great example, but sort of similar, is finding Tyler Myers a niche but continuously asking him to play like someone else and to try and do things beyond what he was excellent at.

I’m not saying we forget about Eichel’s defense. But there’s no need to force him onto the ice to protect a one goal lead under a minute left in the third if we have others who are better suited for that situation (and we should)
 
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sabrebuild

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
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Pittsburgh
A not great example, but sort of similar, is finding Tyler Myers a niche but continuously asking him to play like someone else and to try and do things beyond what he was excellent at.

I’m not saying we forget about Eichel’s defense. But there’s no need to force him onto the ice to protect a one goal lead under a minute left in the third if we have others who are better suited for that situation (and we should)

I hope no one is asking him to do the role of shutdown guy in the last minute.

I just want him to stop being a lazy ass in his own end.

I’m happy Montag thinks he made big strides defensively... But realizing he should actually try more often three years into a career, strikes me as a pretty low standard.
 

Royal Thunder

Frolunda Mode
Feb 21, 2012
4,407
3,427
I hope no one is asking him to do the role of shutdown guy in the last minute.

I just want him to stop being a lazy ass in his own end.

I’m happy Montag thinks he made big strides defensively... But realizing he should actually try more often three years into a career, strikes me as a pretty low standard.
I will back up Montag. He was noticeably more engaged shift to shift this year, and was better on the backcheck. Yes he still has a fair amount of work to do in his own end but he was hardly a "lazy ass" this season (unless we are talking about his lackadaisical line changes which is another story). At least he was trying for the most part and was putting in a much more consistent effort. Call it a low standard but it's a learning curve that a lot of super talented young players go through and the fact he is improving is encouraging.
 

Montag DP

Sabres fan in...
Apr 4, 2007
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I’m happy Montag thinks he made big strides defensively... But realizing he should actually try more often three years into a career, strikes me as a pretty low standard.
I mean, that's the biggest knock on his game, right? That he isn't engaged enough away from the puck? We all know what he can do when he is engaged, but completely changing your playing style doesn't happen overnight. Categorizing him last season as a "lazy ass" in his own end is just dishonest.
 

sabrebuild

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
10,517
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Pittsburgh
I will back up Montag. He was noticeably more engaged shift to shift this year, and was better on the backcheck. Yes he still has a fair amount of work to do in his own end but he was hardly a "lazy ass" this season (unless we are talking about his lackadaisical line changes which is another story). At least he was trying for the most part and wasn't putting in a much more consistent effort. Call it a low standard but it's a learning curve that a lot of super talented young players go through and the fact he is improving is encouraging.

Oh I agree he was more engaged than he was his first two years. I just don’t think it’s reasonable to say “big strides”.

Short of a shift by shift video, we most likely will not agree, but this year he had several notable back checks and was not in full Mario mode, leaving the zone early. Which is good, but honestly it’s the bare minimum for a player with his physical gifts.

There is a reason why he can be one of the best transition players in the game, and be a top shot getting player, and as Ace honestly indicates every time he brings up this article, was the best player on one of the worst possession lines in hockey.

The frustrating part, and why it bothers me, both at Eichel and at the never ending fanboy don’t say a bad word about Eichel, not you, is that he is a straight monster when he gives an F.

The reason those backchecks are noticeable and can be counted on two hands, is the rarity of him doing it and the absolute superhuman ability when he does.

He makes good nhlers look like weekend shmucks with his stick lifts and box outs. If he did that all the time he could be prime Federov for a decade. He would be worth far more than 10 a year. But up to this point he seems satisfied with being great offensively, and waiting for someone else to get the puck to him in his own end.
 

Panthaz89

Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Panthers fan
Dec 24, 2016
13,328
5,825
Buffalo,NY
If you watched him last year and didn't see big strides defensively, you weren't watching very closely. But he's not ROR in his own end, so that's what everyone keeps repeating.
never really got the Eichel's horrible at defense argument especially when I thought he was our 2nd best PKer behind O'Reily considering he could hold on to the puck the whole PP if he ever got it. I think people over exaggerate the lazy part considering the way he skates makes it look like he isn't trying at times. His hard work got Kane the 2 easiest SH goals he could of gotten in his career.
 

Crazy Tasty

Registered User
Oct 5, 2005
5,260
192
Joisey
Eichel’s defensive chops last season.

Big strides? Didn’t see that.

Small Improvement? I did see that.


I’d like Eichel to become a wizard at the dot and get better defensively. This team sooo needs that now that ROR is gone. I don’t need him to be a 95 pt. defensive swiss cheese who has a 38% faceoff win player. No thanks.
If he develops into a 50%+ faceoff win/solid two way/75-85 pt. dynamic leader ... I’m content.

Square peg, round hole. I want more LaFontaine and less Peca.
Plus his stick is too long to be good at faceoffs.
 

sabrebuild

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
10,517
2,770
Pittsburgh
I mean, that's the biggest knock on his game, right? That he isn't engaged enough away from the puck? We all know what he can do when he is engaged, but completely changing your playing style doesn't happen overnight. Categorizing him last season as a "lazy ass" in his own end is just dishonest.

By what standard? Because his first two years he was not nhl quality defensively. This year he was below average. And the problem isn’t his vision, and it’s not the lack of coaching and available tape, or having a veteran who shows you how defense is played every night.

So what is the issue? Because I can promise you, nobody ever said hey your playstyle, where you don’t engage defensively is not a play style that any coach said was good. Certainly not since he was with National development program.

Maybe a comparison will make our ships meet in the night. Would you say that Ovechkin was a lazy defensive player? Because I would say yes, when he was Eichel’s age. Maybe you would say no. If you say no, then fair enough we just have hugely different expectations of professionals.

But yes, far too often Eichel is a lazy ass in his own end, whether back checking, engaging in front of the net or changing.

Someone who is tech savvy, pm me, I would like to embed a single game, shift by shift, and I will breakdown the shift to show what I’m talking about, so posters can understand technically what is happening.
 
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