Speculation: Ryan O'Reilly : The Return [no, not that kind of return :(]; Thread 5

[bohlmeister]

What are Avs supposed to do though, pay him more than Duchene just because he has character?

Papa O'Reilly is obviously taking a pop at Duchene and his lack of "character" in his letter.

Why is Duchene the measuring stick? They are different players. Remember that this negotiation started after a season that Duchene was terrible, and ROR was the teams best player. I have said before you can't really use Duchene's current play as a reason ROR should take the same and shut up. If Duchene was playing like he is now he would have signed for 5+ million. If you don't think ROR is worth 4-4.5 million a season then you are kidding yourself.

Now Duchene took the high road, and is proving that he is a character player, a team first player, and that he will earn his next contract. There were huge question marks on what Duchene was after last season. He cost this team games down the stretch. He was a really selfish hockey player. I am not sure why ROR has to sign for 2 more years to prove what he is. He has only progressed and was a huge part of this team.

Also worth noting what Duchene made his first 3 years in the league, vs what ROR made.

 

[Nzap]

if character is so important to him than why doesn't he have his son sign the bridge deal and then prove he's worth what he wants?

Cause the Avs don't value character.

 

[benzino]

Not sure the point of that letter. If this whole thing wasn't about money, ROR would be playing right now. Plain and simple. It's completely about money. This team DOES value character. They've gotten rid of those lazy, careless players(Wolski, Stewart). But they're not going to pay big bucks for just character. No one will.

I find one of the better fits comparison wise would be Jere Lehtonen. ROR is being offered twice the dollars Jere got after similar numbers after their ELC. It's too bad it got to where it has. Could the Avs have "negotiated" better? Maybe. But ROR has a lot of blame to take from all this. He comes off as extremely greedy and butthurt about the captaincy. His rep will take a huge hit. And who wants a player that will bolt to Russia if he's not getting paid what he wants? Sorry, but I personally don't want a player like that on my teams. The Avs will get a kings ransom for him and will be better off because of it.

After reading this letter I'm now even more convinced that ROR is a young guy that is a victim of trusting his father and agent. It's a shame but it has happened to athletes before and will happen again.

 

[Nzap]

Also worth noting what Duchene made his first 3 years in the league, vs what ROR made.

That's neither here nor there.
What does that have to do with anything?

 

[shadow1]

That blog post is no more than the barely-coherent ravings of a nut.

In a round about way he's saying it's not about the dollar value being too low, it's that everyone feels slighted that they didn't offer more based off O'Reilly's "character".

He tries to dissuade the assertion that O'Reilly was jealous of Landeskog's captaincy, but fails miserably by implying Colorado's contract offers were in the salary range that they were because of Matt Duchene's contract ("If my son was getting 95 in math we wouldn’t ask him to get 65 so the rest of the students in the classroom could feel better about themselves"), which comes off as butt hurt.

Just get this guy off of my favorite team. I've seen the Avalanche part with a hell of a lot better players than Ryan O'Reilly.

 

[Ceremony]

I think I'm going to try a modernist reading of the B. O'Reilly e-mail, see if it makes more sense.

 

[henchman21]

You know, for them saying its not about the money...

It REALLY seems to be about the money.

I guess its a watch what I do, not what I say situation...

All PR. If you say something enough it might eventually stick. ROR doesn't want to be labeled as a greedy player.

 

[Foppa2118]

Flyers beat writer....

Sam Carchidi @BroadStBull
SOURCE: No truth to media reports that #Flyers have inquired about Colorado center Ryan O'Reilly.

Haha, sure. I'll believe something coming from the Flyers in regard to what they did and didn't do, or what they will and won't do, when the go more than one season doing the exact opposite from what they just told the media.

Not to mention the fact that all 29 other teams have at least inquired about O'Reilly. That's the GM's job. They'd be stupid not to.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Well no wonder this situation is so screwed up, Ryan's dad is being too involved in the contract situation and clouding Ryan's better judgment. Or at least I hope so, because his dad is just all over the place. It's not about money, but a high character deserves more money. Craig Anderson is high character, the type that gives up on a team that won't give him more money. I advocate high character and dedication to leadership, as well as holding out on the team I play for.

 

[AslanRH]

Brian O'Reilly speaks out:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013/02/19/ryan-oreillys-father-opens-up-on-his-sons-situation-with-avalanche/12635/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter[/QUOTE

I read this twice, and actually find it promising from an Avs perspective (minus the obscure Anderson reference).

I too think character should be rewarded, but a team of Lappys and Yelles will not win you a title. ROR's character is a key reason I think most fans were happy offering him the same contract Dutch got. If anything, we've seen the character of Dutch this year and may find we won't miss ROR as much as we thought.

What are Avs supposed to do though, pay him more than Duchene just because he has character?

Papa O'Reilly is obviously taking a pop at Duchene and his lack of "character" in his letter.

I would bet it is less at Duchene, and more at Jones, Stastny, etc. Guys who are well paid, and appeared to have easy negotiations, but have shown less perceived leadership and desire.

We do not know all that ROR has told his dad about the Avs locker room and players, but my guess is that Dad feels his kid is getting bullied and shorted by the organization.
I know as a father myself, Its easy to snarl and lose objectivity when you feel your kid is being mistreated. I also know there comes a time when you need to excuse yourself from the middle, and just be there in support when it all plays out.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Haha, sure. I'll believe something coming from the Flyers in regard to what they did and didn't do, or what they will and won't do, when the go more than one season doing the exact opposite from what they just told the media.

Not to mention the fact that all 29 other teams have at least inquired about O'Reilly. That's the GM's job. They'd be stupid not to.

Yup, I suggest to flyer fans they save up for a ROR jersey. It's a forgone conclusion O'rielly will be wearing orange soon.

 

[Avs_19]

Also worth noting what Duchene made his first 3 years in the league, vs what ROR made.

Why is that worth noting?

Their base salaries and signing bonus was identical (except for the first season when Duchene made $60K more). The main difference was with the performance bonus but that's not surprising since Duchene was the 3rd overall pick and O'Reilly was 33rd. I doubt O'Reilly would have made much from the performance bonuses in the first two seasons anyways because he only had 26 points each season.

 

[henchman21]

That blog post is no more than the barely-coherent ravings of a nut.

In a round about way he's saying it's not about the dollar value being too low, it's that everyone feels slighted that they didn't offer more based off O'Reilly's "character".

He tries to dissuade the assertion that O'Reilly was jealous of Landeskog's captaincy, but fails miserably by implying Colorado's contract offers were in the salary range that they were because of Matt Duchene's contract ("If my son was getting 95 in math we wouldn’t ask him to get 65 so the rest of the students in the classroom could feel better about themselves"), which comes off as butt hurt.

Just get this guy off of my favorite team. I've seen the Avalanche part with a hell of a lot better players than Ryan O'Reilly.

It really is quite obvious that ROR wants to be paid more than Duchene and the Avs are totally unwilling to pay him more than Duchene. I don't really blame either party (ROR has every right to try to get as much money as he can), but IMO the Avs are more in the right. Duchene has very high end offensive skill and showed that his first 2 seasons. He had a bad season last year and he took his medicine (so to speak) by signing the 2 year 7m deal. ROR had 1 really good season where he expects to be paid at a rate that would require even higher offensive production.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yeah there is so many hypocritical statements in that letter, not at first glance but when you look at the situation as a whole.

What capped it off for me was mentioning Anderson... A goalie with the obvious talent to be a #1 who quit on the team mid season because he didn't feel like he was being valued enough monetarily. You call that character by isolating facts and leaving out what actually happened on the ice?

The letter is a well articulated, bias, fact circumventing, hypocritical mouth piece by a bull **** artist... Paint a pretty picture with ****, it may be pretty, and over valued by a few morons. But it's still a ****** picture.

(Thank you for Landeskog, Anderson. Much love...)

 

[Avs For Life]

if character is so important to him than why doesn't he have his son sign the bridge deal and then prove he's worth what he wants?

Exactly. There is no logic in what they are doing unless its about the money...

 

[c0rn1]

If Ryan O'Reilly would be that much of a character guy he'd be on the ******* ice with a stick in his hand playing his butts off for the Avs in his bridge deal and helping the team win for $ 3.5 mil.
I have the bitter taste that his father and the agent are like the little angels on his shoulders chirping into his ears and getting him away from doing what he loves the most - playing hockey -. And for what?
A ****in million more or 2 million more in 2 years which he can easily get back once is is into free agency without losing half his good reputation and a full year of salary? What kinda characterful logical idiocy is this?
Imaging even he "ONLY" earns 3.5 mill per year for his career. That's lousy 70 mill in 20 years and that is not enough for doing what you love the most?
What is up with people nowadays not getting their mouthes full enough of money. Yeah, the Avs management might be idiotic at times as well as I said in another post but character implies as well to jump over your own damn shadow and swallow the bad pill sometimes to finally show off what one is really worth for ******** sake!

 

[DallasGaume]

Yeah there is so many hypocritical statements in that letter, not at first glance but when you look at the situation as a whole.

What capped it off for me was mentioning Anderson... A goalie with the obvious talent to be a #1 who quit on the team mid season because he didn't feel like he was being valued enough monetarily. You call that character by isolating facts and leaving out what actually happened on the ice?

The letter is a well articulated, bias, fact circumventing, hypocritical mouth piece by a bull **** artist... Paint a pretty picture with ****, it may be pretty, and over valued by a few morons. But it's still a ****** picture.

(Thank you for Landeskog, Anderson. Much love...)

 

[CalderKing21]

Why is Duchene the measuring stick? They are different players. Remember that this negotiation started after a season that Duchene was terrible, and ROR was the teams best player. I have said before you can't really use Duchene's current play as a reason ROR should take the same and shut up. If Duchene was playing like he is now he would have signed for 5+ million. If you don't think ROR is worth 4-4.5 million a season then you are kidding yourself.

Now Duchene took the high road, and is proving that he is a character player, a team first player, and that he will earn his next contract. There were huge question marks on what Duchene was after last season. He cost this team games down the stretch. He was a really selfish hockey player. I am not sure why ROR has to sign for 2 more years to prove what he is. He has only progressed and was a huge part of this team.

Also worth noting what Duchene made his first 3 years in the league, vs what ROR made.

Duchene is the franchise player, those guys tend to be the measuring stick.

 

[avsfan89]

Duchene is the franchise player, those guys tend to be the measuring stick.

O'Reilly's dad is pretty much saying his son gets an 80 on a test, but deserves a 95 because he 'studies really hard'.

I definitely think O'Reilly complained to his dad saying things Avs FO prob said to him during negotiations, probably something along the lines of:

"We understand you're a natural leader with great intangibles, but for the money you're asking you would have had to have more production in terms of offensive stats to warrant such a huge raise. We pay that kind of money for production and would like to see you replicate the success you had last year. Until you do that, we cannot offer you the money you want. You are more than welcome to take same offer Duchene has. He seems keen to prove himself too."

 

[Bender]

Brian O'Reilly speaks out:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013/02/19/ryan-oreillys-father-opens-up-on-his-sons-situation-with-avalanche/12635/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter

This, to me, sounds like it's done by design to try and expedite the trade.

So basically, trade my son SOON because if not, I'll keep going public with my insane ravings.

 

[5280]

What a joke.

 

[ABasin]

Everything he said is all well and good, because basically he's not saying anything really, but it doesn't change the facts that offense pays in this league, Ryan was a 21 year old RFA with one offensive season of 55 points, and if he just took the very fair bridge deal at $3.5M per he would be playing for the team and city he loves.

If his son has so much character, how come he's not able to rise above these supposed "insults" from a team in negotiations? Let them be the ***holes, and prove you're the player you think they should know you can be.

Wow. What a rambling load of horses**t. Utter nonsense.

Believe it or not, I now feel a bit sorry for Ryan O'Reilly. He's a kid who is (now) quite obviously getting awful advice and nonsensical esoteric bs put into his head by the adults around him.

I can't help but wonder if the "insults" thrown at O'R by the team, were actually thrown at papa O'R rather than player O'R. If I were doing a business deal with a client, and he brought his father in and that dad subsequently started spouting off this kind of crap, I'd tell him to get the hell out of the room or the conversation's completely over. It wouldn't take me 10 minutes, either.

I've been very critical of the Avs' management style in dealing with players, but if PL/Sherman/et al had to deal with this moron in negotiations, I don't blame them one bit. Yikes.

 

[ABasin]

This, to me, sounds like it's done by design to try and expedite the trade.

So basically, trade my son SOON because if not, I'll keep going public with my insane ravings.

But will it really expedite a trade? Or will other teams' GMs look at it and stay far away, and thus have an opposite effect?

I wonder if Sherman has called Bobby Clarke, to see how he dealt with Lindros' parents.

 

[5280]

Funny to read the comments at the bottom of the article.

 

[Yammer]

Nucks fan coming in peace...!

Just read this letter from Brian O'Reilly and I had to come here to say, oh my god, you guys are dealing with a lunatic. There is no way that an intelligent person would inflame the situation with such a boldly interfering, logically inconsistent, and ineptly written load of drivel. If this is the quality of advice that ROR is getting, it is much easier to understand why he is holding out.

I always admired the franchise. Seems to me that you have a quite a core of young talent over there. Until about ten minutes ago, I thought that ROR was a genuine character player who was going to help key the Avs back to elite status.

Now...yeesh.

If you trade him, you reward holdouts.

If you keep him, you're going to have to deal with a lunatic.

Of those two options, I think that keeping a dressing room cancer is worse.