Player Discussion Ryan Nugent-Hopkins '18-19 season

[StevenF1919]

Can we all just appreciate the fact that RNH continues to produce with garbage wingers? He's got worse wingers than Drai yet he's still at almost a point per game, while Draisaitl can't spend more than a period away from Connor without having to be stapled back to his wing.

 

[CornKicker]

nuge goes +1 in a 7-2 loss with Lucic stapled to him and people want to complain? LOL man

 

[Drivesaitl]

The dude does the impossible and gets Lucic a goal and you still have to rip on him? Dude is making $6 million, not $8.5 million. What did Drai do in his time away from Connor tonight?

Hey I even predicted the Lucic goal. Lets be clear here too that the Sharks played that segment of the game wide open as they had already built up a lead and were on cruise mode. That play was wide open. Actually Pulju made the only hard play there and has been playing much better and contributing. The thing that frustrates me generally with Nuge is he's our alleged selke forward but he still lacks the strength to effectly check or contain players. He's so reliant on tying up with his stick. I would have hoped that 26yr old Nuge was going to be bigger and a lot stronger than 18yr old Nuge but it looks like that's never happening.

edit that said I've apologized for my comments in the thread today. No need for it. I'm just frustrated.

 

[joestevens29]

The dude does the impossible and gets Lucic a goal and you still have to rip on him? Dude is making $6 million, not $8.5 million. What did Drai do in his time away from Connor tonight?

Really liking Nuge this year, watching him on TV does no justice some times as well.

He's back before he should be a lot of times, he makes smart stick plays defensively and he just seems to now know where he should be to get the most out of his minutes.

There's all this talk about how McDavid should have LD. I'd like to see RNH have LD.

Be curious what the overall impact would be. Sure maybe McDavid might have his numbers dip a bit, but does it result in your 2nd line being that much better?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Ah, I apologize. Sincerely I do. We all get impacted by whats going on with this team. Nuge is playing as well as ever, acknowledged. Its just being frustrated that results in some garbage posts. I'm susceptible, like anybody. I just have trouble finding too many positives.

One, as I mentioned in the GDT is that this RNH line looks like the right configuration if these wingers continue to work. Lately they have been. Theres a lot of bull and strength on that line and it helps nuge who is the director. Nuge is making so many good plays around net. Being dangerous and creating situations.

 

[Duke74]

Can we all just appreciate the fact that RNH continues to produce with garbage wingers? He's got worse wingers than Drai yet he's still at almost a point per game, while Draisaitl can't spend more than a period away from Connor without having to be stapled back to his wing.

More of this garbage? Funny how you totally overlook the fact that against Anaheim, Draisaitl scored his goal on a line with the exact same wingers. Of course you didn't pop in here to acknowledge that, did you?

I have no issue admitting Nuge is having a great year. But to glorify Nuge at the expense of slamming Draisaitl is completely ridiculous. As are comments that Nuge is better than a player 15 points ahead of him.

 

[StevenF1919]

More of this garbage? Funny how you totally overlook the fact that against Anaheim, Draisaitl scored his goal on a line with the exact same wingers. Of course you didn't pop in here to acknowledge that, did you?

I have no issue admitting Nuge is having a great year. But to glorify Nuge at the expense of slamming Draisaitl is completely ridiculous. As are comments that Nuge is better than a player 15 points ahead of him.

When was the last time Draisaitl finished a game on his own line? Guy needs to be babysat by Connor.

Nuge produces with whoever he plays with.

 

[Aerrol]

When was the last time Draisaitl finished a game on his own line? Guy needs to be babysat by Connor.

Nuge produces with whoever he plays with.

1. When was the last time Nuge produced 70+ points? He's doing well this year but "he produces with whoever he plays with" is kind of nonsense when he hasn't shown this kind of offense in years. Up until this year, the book was that on a good year, he's a 50-60 point player, and a 35-45 point player on a bad year. If Draisaitl was on pace for 50-60 he'd be f***ing crucified around here.
2. Why the hell is it Draisaitl's fault that he gets moved around the lineup by the coach? And why is it BAD that he's goddamn magic with McDavid?

Ugh whatever. Wrong thread. Nuge is huge, happy to see him this year as one of our few bright spots.

 

[Duke74]

When was the last time Draisaitl finished a game on his own line? Guy needs to be babysat by Connor.

Nuge produces with whoever he plays with.

That's such horseshit it's not even funny.

On his own line, Nuge is a 40-point player. On his own line, Draisaitl is a 70-point player.

Also since you like numbers so much, Bruce McCurdy posted some numbers on Twitter:



For the first 17 games of the season, Nuge was with McD and posted a grand total of 3 goals. In the same time span, on his own line, Draisaitl went PPG.

The narrative that Draisait is dependent on McDavid is the biggest lie in history. As is the idea that Nuge is better than him.

 

[DaGap]

That's such horse**** it's not even funny.

On his own line, Nuge is a 40-point player. On his own line, Draisaitl is a 70-point player.

Also since you like numbers so much, Bruce McCurdy posted some numbers on Twitter:



For the first 17 games of the season, Nuge was with McD and posted a grand total of 3 goals. In the same time span, on his own line, Draisaitl went PPG.

The narrative that Draisait is dependent on McDavid is the biggest lie in history. As is the idea that Nuge is better than him.

3 goals and how many points?
Drai ppg in the first 17 without anyone on his line?

You going to have to post some stats to back up your assertion

 

[nabob]

More of this garbage? Funny how you totally overlook the fact that against Anaheim, Draisaitl scored his goal on a line with the exact same wingers. Of course you didn't pop in here to acknowledge that, did you?

I have no issue admitting Nuge is having a great year. But to glorify Nuge at the expense of slamming Draisaitl is completely ridiculous. As are comments that Nuge is better than a player 15 points ahead of him.

We get it. You love Draisaitl.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

We get it. You love Draisaitl.

Same can be said about your posts about JP buddy.

 

[Duke74]

We get it. You love Draisaitl.

We get it. You love Puljujarvi.

 

[Duke74]

3 goals and how many points?
Drai ppg in the first 17 without anyone on his line?

You going to have to post some stats to back up your assertion

NHL.com - Stats

As you can see, both Nuge and Drai had 17 points in 17 games during this time period. Nuge had 17 points on a line with McDavid, while Draisaitl was playing with the likes of Lucic (2 goals), Yamamoto (1 goal) and Rieder (0 goals). However, Draisaitl had 10 goals to Nuge's 3. If that's not driving his own line, I can't help you.

 

[StevenF1919]

1. When was the last time Nuge produced 70+ points? He's doing well this year but "he produces with whoever he plays with" is kind of nonsense when he hasn't shown this kind of offense in years. Up until this year, the book was that on a good year, he's a 50-60 point player, and a 35-45 point player on a bad year. If Draisaitl was on pace for 50-60 he'd be ****ing crucified around here.
2. Why the hell is it Draisaitl's fault that he gets moved around the lineup by the coach? And why is it BAD that he's goddamn magic with McDavid?

Ugh whatever. Wrong thread. Nuge is huge, happy to see him this year as one of our few bright spots.

1. Draisaitl would put up 60 points without McDavid.
2. It's his fault for being badly outscored when not on McDavid's line.

NHL.com - Stats

As you can see, both Nuge and Drai had 17 points in 17 games during this time period. Nuge had 17 points on a line with McDavid, while Draisaitl was playing with the likes of Lucic (2 goals), Yamamoto (1 goal) and Rieder (0 goals).

This is bullshit and I've called you out on this multiple times, yet you still post it as fact. Here's something I posted in reply to you in December:

In those first 17 games (from October 6th against the Devils to November 11th against the Avalanche) where he put up 17 points (8 of them 5v5), only 5 of those points were without McDavid on the ice.

So yeah, he had 5 points in 17 games on his own line and away from McDavid. Since being reunited with McDavid, he has 8 points in 11 games at 5v5. He doesn't really produce on his own.

This is the third time I will have disproven this. The data is readily available on naturalstattrick and yet you choose to ignore it.

Back on topic, RNH is the GOAT and he's the only player on this roster that I can see retiring with the Oilers. Let's hope he has more success than the other Oilers alumni in our front office when he inevitably gets hired by Katz.

 

[Duke74]

1. Draisaitl would put up 60 points without McDavid.
2. It's his fault for being badly outscored when not on McDavid's line.

This is bull**** and I've called you out on this multiple times, yet you still post it as fact. Here's something I posted in reply to you in December:

This is the third time I will have disproven this. The data is readily available on naturalstattrick and yet you choose to ignore it.

And you choose to ignore the tweet that I posted re: 5v5 metrics. Once you acknowledge what I've posted, I'll acknowledge your stats.

If, as you say, Draisaitl would put up 60 points without McD, and Nuge would put up 45, whose the better player? It's clear to me. If you can't do math, I can't help you there.

And you want to know what's bullshit? What's bullshit is the way that some ignorant fans continue to jump at the slightest opportunity to treat Draisaitl like a piece of garbage when he's on pace for 100 points. People talk about wanting to appreciate Nuge, what about Draisaitl? All he gets is the brunt of fans' hate while people drop to their knees for Nuge.

 

[StevenF1919]

And you choose to ignore the tweet that I posted re: 5v5 metrics. Once you acknowledge what I've posted, I'll acknowledge your stats.

If, as you say, Draisaitl would put up 60 points without McD, and Nuge would put up 45, whose the better player? It's clear to me.

And you want to know what's bull****? What's bull**** is the way that some ignorant fans treat Draisaitl like a piece of garbage when he's on pace for 100 points.

During the last 3 seasons, McDavid has a 58.68 GF% away from Draisaitl, while Draisaitl has a 43.94 GF% away from McDavid. Together, they have a 58.58 GF%. McDavid actually outscores the opposition at a higher rate away from Drai than with him.

Nowhere in any of my posts did I say Nuge was a better player than Draisaitl. He's by far the better C though.

 

[Panda Bear]

What a stupid argument, and its stupidity radiates from the claim that RNH is a 40 point player.

 

[Aerrol]

1. Draisaitl would put up 60 points without McDavid.
2. It's his fault for being badly outscored when not on McDavid's line.

Back on topic, RNH is the GOAT and he's the only player on this roster that I can see retiring with the Oilers. Let's hope he has more success than the other Oilers alumni in our front office when he inevitably gets hired by Katz.

lol I'm not digging into the numbers, but has RNH treaded water for many years now? Honest question. What about Hall? I recall some pretty awful GA numbers for your favourite ex-Oiler. The point being that Draisaitl produces WAY more than anyone on the team with McDavid, and has played pretty damn well without him in stretches but can't seem to maintain it. I love him on the team and you seem to want him gone, which is ludicrous.

Bolded, while tongue in cheek I know, is pretty amusing when our roster has Connor McDavid on it...

And you choose to ignore the tweet that I posted re: 5v5 metrics. Once you acknowledge what I've posted, I'll acknowledge your stats.

If, as you say, Draisaitl would put up 60 points without McD, and Nuge would put up 45, whose the better player? It's clear to me. If you can't do math, I can't help you there.

And you want to know what's bull****? What's bull**** is the way that some ignorant fans continue to jump at the slightest opportunity to treat Draisaitl like a piece of garbage when he's on pace for 100 points. People talk about wanting to appreciate Nuge, what about Draisaitl? All he gets is the brunt of fans' hate while people drop to their knees for Nuge.

I think you're going a bit too far here - Nuge gets shit on plenty too, just not as much this year because he's finally putting up points. But, as you know, otherwise, I agree that it's ridiculous the amount of crap Drai gets. I, too, wish we signed him to 7.5 instead but it doesn't make Draisaitl a bad player.

 

[Duke74]

During the last 3 seasons, McDavid has a 58.68 GF% away from Draisaitl, while Draisaitl has a 43.94 GF% away from McDavid. Together, they have a 58.58 GF%. McDavid actually outscores the opposition at a higher rate away from Drai than with him.

Nowhere in any of my posts did I say Nuge was a better player than Draisaitl. He's by far the better C though.

I was talking strictly this season. Besides, I think 5v5 is a better metric than corsi, but that's your opinion.

Nuge is better defensively than Draisaitl but Draisaitl is far better offensively.

 

[Aerrol]

I was talking strictly this season. Besides, I think 5v5 is a better metric than corsi, but that's your opinion.

Nuge is better defensively than Draisaitl but Draisaitl is far better offensively.

If I had more time, I'd go digging to compare some highlight packages - which of COURSE aren't even close to being the end-all for a debate like this. But just from memory, Draisaitl makes faaaaaaar more eye-popping plays to keep offense alive/create offense out of nothing than Nuge does. Nuge's offense is more steady as she goes, which is good too, but doesn't impact the game in the same way IMO (not to mention the raw point totals). And yes, I'm sure this sort of non-empirical discussion will be dismissed as touchy-feely-gobbledy-gook by StevenF but oh well.

 

[StevenF1919]

lol I'm not digging into the numbers, but has RNH treaded water for many years now? Honest question. What about Hall? I recall some pretty awful GA numbers for your favourite ex-Oilers. The point being that Draisaitl produces WAY more than anyone on the team with McDavid, and has played pretty damn well without him in stretches but can't seem to maintain it. I love him on the team and you seem to want him gone, which is ludicrous.

Bolded, while tongue in cheek I know, is pretty amusing when our roster has Connor McDavid on it...

Hall had insane GF% numbers here, especially compared to the team. He had a 51.14 GF% during his time here, which was 11.2% higher than the team average, and he did it without McDavid on his line.

RNH has also had a positive GF% rel over his time here. Obviously he's not the gamebreaking superstar like Hall is but he's a great #2 C who consistently gets underappreciated.

I was talking strictly this season. Besides, I think 5v5 is a better metric than corsi, but that's your opinion.

Nuge is better defensively than Draisaitl but Draisaitl is far better offensively.

GF% is not corsi, it's goal share. Also, not sure what you're talking about, both corsi and GF% use 5v5 only.

Away from McDavid I'm not sure the gap is as big as you think it is between the two offensively.

 

[Aerrol]

Nowhere in any of my posts did I say Nuge was a better player than Draisaitl. He's by far the better C though.

You know what, I passed over this. I don't think this is that unreasonable to say at all. Especially given how much weight one might put on two-way play for a Centre. Draisaitl certainly hasn't shown at all the ability to maintain his high level of play consistently at centre.

 

[StevenF1919]

You know what, I passed over this. I don't think this is that unreasonable to say at all. Especially given how much weight one might put on two-way play for a Centre. Draisaitl certainly hasn't shown at all the ability to maintain his high level of play consistently at centre.

IMO Draisaitl is one of the worst defensive players in the NHL. Missed assignments, lazy backchecking, etc. As a winger though, that kind of stuff matters less, especially if the player can drive possession enough to minimize the damage caused by their poor defensive ability. Unfortunately, I don't see him as a play driver, but more of a very (very) good complimentary winger who needs to play with an elite C.

RNH can play anywhere in the lineup with almost anyone and have success. He doesn't really drive offense either but he's very good defensively and produces at a steady rate even with players like Lucic on his line. Players like him are extremely valuable in the playoffs, and we saw it two seasons ago when he had a hell of a postseason for us. I kinda forgot how good he was against the Sharks tbh.

 

[CupofOil]

We get it. You love Draisaitl.

He's just countering a completely ignorant opinion.

I don't understand why pro-Nuge fans feel the need to trash Draisaitl and vice versa. It's f***ing ridiculous that 2 of their 4 or 5 good players get criticized especially when it has no merit.

I have never seen a player as good as Draisaitl get torched as much as he does by his own fanbases, maybe Laine with Jets fans? It's lunacy.

Who cares if he can't carry a line with plugs, he's on pace for 40+ goals and 90+ points. Why not enjoy that? Are Avs, Flames, Bruins fans etc. complaining about their stars because they produce with other stars?