RW Vitaly Kravtsov (2018, 9th, NYR; traded to VAN) Part2

[Pavel Buchnevich]

People are calling Lias a bust because he left his organization without warning or permission after not having proved much in the 3 years since coming over.

This is Kravstov's first year, he's 20 games into his NA career. He's in the AHL, putting in work.

Not really comparable at all imo.

Year two vs. year three after being drafted. I'm not saying Kravtsov is a bust. I'm saying that he's trending towards that, if he doesn't turn things around. He's had a terrible season. The people stating stuff like he has a better attitude are moving the goalposts. His attitude should've never been an issue. That was an acceptable stance for a week after returning to Hartford. Now, he needs to produce. He was picked in the top 10, and he's been mediocre since joining rejoining Hartford for a player of his caliber.

Andersson also had an adequate first season after being drafted, and he didn't even have a bad second season. The comparisons of their seasons aren't exact and Andersson wasn't even a bust specifically due to his stats in the SHL/AHL. He was a bust because he was over-drafted, he was supposed to produce immediately in the NHL, he couldn't, he still is unable to produce in the NHL, and now he's started moping about it this season, which has carried over to his AHL play and the trade request.

They likely would be busts for different reasons, if both ended up being busts. I'm merely saying Kravtsov needs to start turning it around. Andersson in year three after being drafted is pretty universally seen by fans as a bust. Kravtsov is only about a year younger now, and since being drafted he hasn't been all too great. He needs to turn it around quickly.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

would definitely like to see him produce more. Chytil produced better as an 18 year old in his d+1, and many consider(ed) Krav to be a higher-end prospect than Chytil. Even Lias was producing better his first season in the AHL. And those Hartford teams were much worse than this one.

 

[Lays]

Kravtsov has had a terrible season. Even coming back to the AHL, he's not produced as he should have. He's had some games where he shows a good amount of skill and that he's clearly a talented player, but its not consistent. You could discount his AHL numbers before he went back to the KHL, and they still aren't good. Kravtsov would be age-eligible for the AHL, if he was coming from junior hockey. For a top ten pick forward to not even be averaging .5PPG in the AHL at this point, I think thats not acceptable.

I think the kid is talented, but he's trending towards bust territory, in my opinion. If we can call Andersson, whose only about a year older, a bust at this point (and many people are doing that), we can start discussing the possibility with Kravtsov. He needs to start playing a lot better. He's a much more talented player than Andersson, but being talented doesn't guarantee success. His attitude was clearly a problem for a lot of this season, so that's not good. But his consistency isn't there. He shows flashes of talent, but top-ten picks should be playing a lot more consistently than he does in the AHL at age 20.

From what I've seen, and I've seen a number of his AHL games, his on-ice work-ethic isn't very high. He floats a lot. He doesn't forecheck hard, and try to steal pucks. He doesn't go to the net to try to find the puck. He doesn't play with enough pace. His skating speed and technique are at least above-average, but he looks slow out there because he plays at a very slow pace. NA hockey is a quicker pace than the KHL. He's not involved in enough plays because of all of this. He's a complete cherry-picker right now.

I also have noticed that he tries for a lot of highlight-reel toe-drags or moves that will never work, and he wastes scoring chances because of it. You occasionally will see this from other players, but not with any consistency. Other players will use it when it's not expected, and when you can catch the other team off guard. Kravtsov uses it as a staple of his game, and any defense that does their homework on Kravtsov would know that there's a good chance he's going to try something too fancy instead of trying to find the trailing man or driving to the net or taking the shot off the rush. I don't know who taught him that these are acceptable. They look fancy, but he ruins too many scoring chances by doing this.

I ranked this guy pretty high pre-draft. I had him 10th, and we picked him 9th. I wanted to pick a defenseman, but I didn't hate the pick. I thought Kravtsov had a lot of potential, but what I've seen since being drafted hasn't been very good. He needs to turn it around. This team can't go two drafts in a row drafting busts. Thats an easy way to ruin a rebuild.

PB have you watched him since he came back? I saw him 3 times since he came back to NA and he’s been completely different and every game he improves, and from reports he’s been dangerous these last few games. Before he came back, I’d agree but he has legitimately been very good despite his stats (which are slowly coming along)

 

[EXTRAS]

Overreaction. He's been back 20 games in a new league that plays a different style than he is used to. He should be fine.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

PB have you watched him since he came back? I saw him 3 times since he came back to NA and he’s been completely different and every game he improves, and from reports he’s been dangerous these last few games. Before he came back, I’d agree but he has legitimately been very good despite his stats (which are slowly coming along)

I've seen a number of games since he's returned. I can't remember the exact number, but it's between 5-10. I don't know which games you've seen, so I don't want to get into that game of whose watched him more and who has a better opinion. He has played different than his initial stint with Hartford. He was moping back then. Now he's not. He looked like a player who earned a scratch his first stint. This stint he's not moping around, but I don't think he's been good. He's had a few good games. Thats not the same as playing well, and there's also a difference between not moping around and giving effort and not playing well.

I don't know whose giving these reports that he's playing well, but check the stats. He's not getting many shots and isn't putting up points. That lines up well with what I've seen, and even if he was playing extremely well, I don't think its asking a lot for a 20 year old top 10 pick in the AHL to put up points.

 

[Lays]

I've seen a number of games since he's returned. I can't remember the exact number, but it's between 5-10. I don't know which games you've seen, so I don't want to get into that game of whose watched him more and who has a better opinion. He has played different than his initial stint with Hartford. He was moping back then. Now he's not. He looked like a player who earned a scratch his first stint. This stint he's not moping around, but I don't think he's been good. There's a difference between not moping around and giving effort and not playing well. I don't know whose giving these reports that he's playing well, but check the stats. He's not getting many shots and isn't putting up points. That lines up well with what I've seen, and even if he was playing extremely well, I don't think its asking a lot for a 20 year old top 10 pick in the AHL to put up points.

The points will come. He’s generating chances and hustling. Not worried about Kravtsov at all

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Overreaction. He's been back 20 games in a new league that plays a different style than he is used to. He should be fine.

8 of the 10 top 10 picks from the 2018 Draft are in the NHL. Bouchard has 23 points in 38 games AHL games. Kravtsov since coming back has 5 points in 14 AHL games.

 

[EXTRAS]

8 of the 10 top 10 picks from the 2018 Draft are in the NHL. Bouchard has 23 points in 38 games AHL games. Kravtsov since coming back has 5 points in 14 AHL games.

If you're trying to point out that 14 games is an incredibly small sample size and you shouldnt make such a rigid opinion based upon it, then I agree.

And just to be clear, how many of the 208 players selected after Kravtsov are making significant impacts at the NHL level at this point?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Two assists yesterday. Up to 8 points in 22 games. which is completely unacceptable for a player of his caliber, but he still has the rest of the season to improve. A good second half to the season is important for the player and organization.

 

[Killerjas]

Two assists yesterday. Up to 8 points in 22 games. which is completely unacceptable for a player of his caliber, but he still has the rest of the season to improve. A good second half to the season is important for the player and organization.

Is it really for a 9th overall, overhyped player?

 

[QJL]

Two assists yesterday. Up to 8 points in 22 games. which is completely unacceptable for a player of his caliber, but he still has the rest of the season to improve. A good second half to the season is important for the player and organization.

Completely unacceptable? Time to reset expectations on Kravtsov and for picks outside of the top 5. The only forward from his draft class in the AHL right now producing better is Wahlstrom (barely). He’s not the elite prospect everyone thought he would be. He’s still got a great chance to be a top 6 player.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Is it really for a 9th overall, overhyped player?

I don't think Kravtsov was overhyped same way as I don't think Tolvanen was overhyped. They both did really well at the peak of their hype. Too bad they have such issues with the next step.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

Completely unacceptable? Time to reset expectations on Kravtsov and for picks outside of the top 5. The only forward from his draft class in the AHL right now producing better is Wahlstrom (barely). He’s not the elite prospect everyone thought he would be. He’s still got a great chance to be a top 6 player.

Great chance? No

 

[kp61c]

His numbers in the ahl are what i expected from him. He was overhyped like crazy.

 

[Michoulicious]

I don't think Kravtsov was overhyped same way as I don't think Tolvanen was overhyped. They both did really well at the peak of their hype. Too bad they have such issues with the next step.

I think Kravtsov has the tools to develop in a top 6 forward. He was probably overhyped, especially at the development camps/prospect games this year given his play there.

It is not the first or last player that get a fan base too excited. He'll be good, maybe just not superstar good, which is ok.

 

[SoundAndFury]

His numbers in the ahl are what i expected from him. He was overhyped like crazy.

You expected legitimate top-6 KHL forward to score under 0.5 PPG in the AHL? Come on now.

 

[kp61c]

You expected legitimate top-6 KHL forward to score under 0.5 PPG in the AHL? Come on now.

He scored around 0.3 ppg in the khl. It's a stretch to call him a legitimate top-6 khl forward.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Kravtsov scored at a .42 PPG clip last year in the KHL. Not .5, but for a player his age that's pretty good. It's in line with what most of the KHL's best products did at the same age. Scoring at a .35 PPG clip the next season in the AHL is unacceptable. That's worse point production in a worse league. Even if you take out the five games at the beginning of the season, its .39 PPG in a worse league. How in any way is it acceptable for a top 10 pick whose game is based almost entirely on putting up points to score at a worse rate the next season in a worse league?

I don't think it matters whether he was overhyped. We all have our own opinion's on that. Being overhyped, if he is, doesn't mean he can't be a good NHL forward. His problem is consistency from game to game. He is far off the NHL, in my opinion. I have watched a lot of his AHL games this season, and the issue is that he doesn't assert himself on the game with any consistency. The issue is certainly not talent.

Even in the AHL, he's a skilled complimentary player who can dangle better than any of his teammates to create a scoring chance, show more touch on his passes than all his teammates or show off a higher IQ play than his teammates, but he doesn't show any intensity yet. It seems like he's content to be a cherry-picker in the AHL. He needs to demand the puck more, be more willing to be selfish and dominate a shift, be more involved in carrying the puck through the neutral zone, and be more aggressive in forechecking all over the ice. The pace he plays at is way too slow. The AHL might be worse than the KHL, but the pace is faster. Kravtsov needs to better adjust to that. He skates well, but he looks like he's stuck in mud because he's rarely bothered to skate at his top speed.

I don't believe any of this is something he can't easily improve on. He and many fans made a big deal that the AHL coaching staff thought his heart rate was at too low of a level when they measured it. That speaks to the problem with the player more than the problem with the team. His effort since returning from the KHL has been better than the non-existent effort he showed to start the season, but its very basic effort. It's not the effort of someone who is more talented than everyone else, and can assert his skills on an AHL game. This needs to be coached into him. I suspect it'll take some time. I don't like the AHL path for Russian forwards, so I'm skeptical of keeping him there for too long to begin with, but I think this is something that Knoblauch will need to work on a lot with the player. He needs to be a more involved participant in the game. That will solve nearly all the issues he's having.

 

[SoundAndFury]

He scored around 0.3 ppg in the khl. It's a stretch to call him a legitimate top-6 khl forward.

As pointed out above your math is wrong but more importantly, that still placed him 3rd in PPG on the team that made the playoffs, hard to call him anything but a top-6 forward.

 

[EdJovanovski]

6 points in his last 8 games in the AHL,

 

[Nabrules]

But he’s way better than Podkolzin right!!!!! All kidding aside he could still end up better than Podkolzin, but everyone here said Kravstov was clearly the better player between the two which was idiotic to say so definitely. I do however think NY made a huge mistake not picking Bouchard or Dobson.

 

[The Sweetness]

How’s he looked recently?

 

[Llamamoto]

But he’s way better than Podkolzin right!!!!! All kidding aside he could still end up better than Podkolzin, but everyone here said Kravstov was clearly the better player between the two which was idiotic to say so definitely. I do however think NY made a huge mistake not picking Bouchard or Dobson.

What does this have to do with Podkolzin?

 

[bl02]

How’s he looked recently?

Much more engaged and now finally putting up some points. Still wouldn’t even think about bringing him up tho

 

[The Sweetness]

Much more engaged and now finally putting up some points. Still wouldn’t even think about bringing him up tho

Nice, thanks for the update.

He’s clearly got the talent so as long as he’s working hard on his game and fitness he will be a Ranger.