RW Eeli Tolvanen (2017, 30th, NSH) Part III

[Artorius Horus T]

In what way?? He's 19 playing his first year of NA pro hockey and has 10 points in 16 games. I don't see how thats disappointing.

He has 2 years of NA hockey (none pro) already under his belt.
Sure pro hockey, even the AHL is complete another animal what USHL is but still...

Looking at how he played in the KHL and for team Finland in the worlds as an 18 year old...you'd think he able to dominate the AHL.
For example, Janne Kuokkanen (2016 43rd ovr) at 19 last season was a 0.70 ppg player in the AHL with only 1 season in the OHL,
practically zero experience of pro hockey, of any kind, this season Kuokkanen, at 20 is 1.23 ppg.

 

[LoveHateLeafs]

What concerns me is his low number of shots per game (2.18 right now). Throughout his career, he's been known for putting a ton of shots on net. The fact that he isn't able to do so in the AHL is worrisome.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

What concerns me is his low number of shots per game (2.18 right now). Throughout his career, he's been known for putting a ton of shots on net. The fact that he isn't able to do so in the AHL is worrisome.

In deed it is, also 3 goals in 16 games for a pure sniper worries the jeebus out of me.

 

[ijuka]

I agree, it's worrying. Rantanen put up amazing numbers in AHL at a similar age, or even younger. Rantanen became an amazing player. On the other hand, Puljujärvi put up similar numbers to Tolvanen and he is a bust. It's looking like Tolvanen will bust as well. Hopefully he's able to pick it up and end up scoring at a decent rate as the season goes on but...

 

[jonu]

Or maybe he is actually working on other aspects of the game as he was told to do in order to become a more complete player?

 

[Icebreakers]

I agree, it's worrying. Rantanen put up amazing numbers in AHL at a similar age, or even younger. Rantanen became an amazing player. On the other hand, Puljujärvi put up similar numbers to Tolvanen and he is a bust. It's looking like Tolvanen will bust as well. Hopefully he's able to pick it up and end up scoring at a decent rate as the season goes on but...

Rantanen put up over ppg as a 19 year old...

 

[Ainec]

Vancouver will trade better Granlund brother for him

#finforfin

 

[FinnishSniper]

Jesus christ this thread is hilarious with it’s hot takes. My hot take will be that he goes PPG+ in the AHL and wins the scoring title in the WJC if Finland gets to the semis.

He is playing just fine guys chill out.

 

[docbenton]

AHL > KHL, with the exception of maybe the 1-2 top KHL teams. Been saying this for a while. The AHL is the 2nd toughest league in the world.

 

[FinlandPanther]

People are actually freaking out about Tolvanen being a bust? Jeez lol. Guy has an excellent KHL season and taking some time to adjust to the AHL. Relax he’s 19.

 

[koyvoo]

Wasn’t it just a scorching start to a KHL season? I thought he had a very dry second half of the season. No?

 

[VictorLustig]

AHL > KHL, with the exception of maybe the 1-2 top KHL teams. Been saying this for a while. The AHL is the 2nd toughest league in the world.

So many players have played in both these leagues. Haven't heard a single one say the AHL is better and many have been asked that question.

 

[King Weber]

Jesus christ this thread is hilarious with it’s hot takes. My hot take will be that he goes PPG+ in the AHL and wins the scoring title in the WJC if Finland gets to the semis.

He is playing just fine guys chill out.

You think he'll go to U20's? If guys like Heiskanen, Jokiharju, Kotkaniemi and Vesalainen go (which I find is very unlikely) I kind of want to see him go too as he hasn't won the gold yet and it's his last opportunity to do so, but at the same time I think long term it could be better for his development to stay in Milwaukee and play there.

 

[FinPanda]

You think he'll go to U20's? If guys like Heiskanen, Jokiharju, Kotkaniemi and Vesalainen go I kind of want to see him go too as he hasn't won the gold yet and it's his last opportunity to do so, but at the same time I think long term it could be better for his development to stay in Milwaukee and play there.

The tournament is in north america so the odds for Tolvanen playing are quite high. He'll get enough of AHL games anyway.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

People are actually freaking out about Tolvanen being a bust? Jeez lol. Guy has an excellent KHL season and taking some time to adjust to the AHL. Relax he’s 19.

A #30 pick is not playing in the NHL at the age of 19, oh no, the world is ending. Let the kid learn and grow.

 

[FinnishSniper]

You think he'll go to U20's? If guys like Heiskanen, Jokiharju, Kotkaniemi and Vesalainen go (which I find is very unlikely) I kind of want to see him go too as he hasn't won the gold yet and it's his last opportunity to do so, but at the same time I think long term it could be better for his development to stay in Milwaukee and play there.

Vesalainen will I think the other's will not for sure.

 

[blindpass]

Wasn’t it just a scorching start to a KHL season? I thought he had a very dry second half of the season. No?

0.5 ppg at 18 in the KHL isn't "dry", it is still terrific. Add a spectacular performance at the Olympics. And why are we discounting the start of the season as if it doesn't count?

 

[seadawg]

I agree, it's worrying. Rantanen put up amazing numbers in AHL at a similar age, or even younger. Rantanen became an amazing player. On the other hand, Puljujärvi put up similar numbers to Tolvanen and he is a bust. It's looking like Tolvanen will bust as well. Hopefully he's able to pick it up and end up scoring at a decent rate as the season goes on but...

What does this have to do with Tolvanen? Big deal that Rantanen put up decent numbers and Puljujarvi didn't. They are not Tolvanen. You can cherry pick all kinds of players who did not do well in the AHL but ended up being just fine in the NHL (Brayden Point only had 4 pts in 9 AHL games, Trocheck only had 61 pts in 78 games, Kyle Connor had 44 in 52 games, Teravainen only had 27 pts in 44 games...need I go on?). Does that mean Tolvanen will be fine? Of course not. It doesn't really matter what anyone else has done in the AHL. All that matters is that Tolvanen is still only 19 years old and it is way too early to be calling him a bust. Sheesh.

 

[Kalv]

When I saw him live in the KHL last season, he looked like he was... not very engaged that game. He was playing very positional hockey, a passive one almost. He ended up scoring a goal anyway tho but left me wondering what will become of him. When I looked at guys like Gaudreau, Barzal, and other smaller players, they left impression of being way more active and engaging.

Very small sample size but he looked like he is great at using the small opportunities that were given on the large ice. I don`t think he is anywhere near bust territory, but I am not surprised he have this longer adjustment period. He really has to change a few things, but talent is there, no doubt.

 

[13 others]

So can we put to bed this idea that the KHL is the 2nd best league in the world? Nigel Dawes is currently leading the league in scoring. Tolvanen had a pretty good year (but not dominant) and people hyped the hell out of him, now he's struggling to score in the AHL.

 

[SoundAndFury]

So can we put to bed this idea that the KHL is the 2nd best league in the world? Nigel Dawes is currently leading the league in scoring. Tolvanen had a pretty good year (but not dominant) and people hyped the hell out of him.

He also scored 4 points in 4 games in the WC against NHL-level competition so can you stop trying to pull the arguments out of your ass because you think you found some kind of circumstantial evidence which proves it? I have mentioned this before, Mats Zuccarello has higher PPG in the NHL than KHL so KHL is obviously the best league in the world. Is that how it works?

Also, the guy who scored 0.5 PPG in the NHL in 09/10 and ultimately didn't make it because he is 172 cm which mattered a lot 10 years ago is leading the league in scoring. What a bum man, has to be a terrible league. Nevermind that he dominated the AHL even back then which I suppose you are making the point is "the real" 2nd best league in the world.

 

[13 others]

He also scored 4 points in 4 games in the WC against NHL-level competition so can you stop trying to pull the arguments out of your ass because you think you found some kind of circumstantial evidence which proves it? I have mentioned this before, Mats Zuccarello has higher PPG in the NHL than KHL so KHL is obviously the best league in the world. Is that how it works?

No, you don't prove something by comparing PPG between leagues because the KHL is a lower scoring league. I was comparing Nigel Dawes relative to his competition. We should expect Tolvanen to score MORE in the AHL if he is progressing as expected.

 

[Saekk]

Imagine actually believing AHL is a better league than KHL..

There's couple other euroleagues on par with AHL, but KHL is easily better than it.

 

[SoundAndFury]

No, you don't prove something by comparing PPG between leagues because the KHL is a lower scoring league. I was comparing Nigel Dawes relative to his competition. We should expect Tolvanen to score MORE in the AHL if he is progressing as expected.

Yes, that ~7% scoring disparity between the leagues is super crucial in this argument.

Obviously, Tolvanen is having a hard time transitioning to the small ice even though he played great in all competitions last year whatever opposition he faced - be it KHL, WJC, OG or WC. The fact that you are trying to make some end-all definitive conclusion about the strength of the league based on a single undersized 19-year-old is laughable. Kaprizov has 17 points in 24 games. Kane had 2 in 12. Dadonov is top line wing in the NHL when his linemate, whom most considered to be more talented, didn't make the NHL at all. If all those things don't tell you it's more complicated than "can we put to bed this idea that the KHL is the 2nd best league in the world because Tolvanen doesn't score in the AHL" I don't know what to tell you other than maybe you should educate yourself on the subject before talking about it.

Not to mention that the last time you saw Dawes play was probably 2010 or so.

 

[Legend123]

People are actually freaking out about Tolvanen being a bust? Jeez lol. Guy has an excellent KHL season and taking some time to adjust to the AHL. Relax he’s 19.

Just a while ppl thought he was a better prospect than Petersson. So chillax let the hot takes