Friedman: Rutherford/Allvin done assessing Canucks - Everyone available except Pettersson, Hughes, Demko

[EP to Kuzmenko]

I can't find thread for "Trolls out of their lane" - is it hidden in a sub thread somewhere?

It's a hidden thread that only Trolls can see.

 

[Captain97]

All but 1 of the examples I gave are C or RHD

Centers:
Krebs, Suzuki

RHD:
Boqvist

I came up with these off the top of my head without looking back for examples. If 3 of the 4 most recent examples I could think of were these positions, if there were more than 4 trades in the last few years with star players, there are probably more

Suzuki at the time was largely projecting as a winger in the eyes of many. There wasn't a consensus as to whether he'd be a RW or C at the time of the trade.

 

[canuckfaithful]

Ahh I know Nucks fans are obsessed with Schneider which is why I had to preface that he wasn’t going anywhere

You sound like you have an inside source? Really you don’t know anything? You just enthusiastic fan. If the Rangers management thought Miller would bring them a cup be the missing piece, I bet they would consider giving up Schneider.

 

[canuckfaithful]

You sound like you have an inside source? Really you don’t know anything? You just enthusiastic fan. If the Rangers management thought Miller would bring them a cup be the missing piece, I bet they would consider giving up Schneider.

Miller has the potential to be amongst the top 10 in the NHL for the next 2 to 5 years. Captain material. Gonna cost you a little money in a couple years. But that’s the nature of the beast. Why wouldn’t they move and unproven rookie for that?

 

[TheDoldrums]

Whoops

 

[JimmyG89]

I could see horvat to the rangers more so than Miller. Wouldn’t cost as much to get horvat

I wouldnt be so sure on that.

Horvat is younger, will cost less AAV and will probably have more teams able to trade for him that Miller.

How many teams do you think would be in a bidding war for a 26 yrd old Centre, Captain that produces.

For Horvat i say at minimum

1st
2nd
Top prospect

How about swapping Lundkvist for Matt Robertson?

Horvat for the Rangers has always been the hope for me. He's someone you play with Panarin. He does all the dirty work, can score, defend, win faceoffs. With Strome as a UFA at season's end, he fill the 2C role and would have around a palatable salary for next season for the current roster.

Miller is more dynamic, but I'd rather the center that will do everything for you and chip in 55-60 points.

2022 1st is clearly in the deal. Smaller piece in the deal someone like Matthew Robertson? Mobile, 6'4 LHD. With Hughes and OEL, he's add more backbone to the defense on the left side. He's blocked on the Rangers with Miller and Lindgren being the same type of player (Lindgren more defense, Miller with size and skating).

Horvat for 2022 1st, 2022 2nd (higher pick between STL/NYR), Kravtsov, and Robertson?

 

[Love]

Yup watch lots. I live in the West. I don't think Hughes carries the team at all. Demko, Miller and Horvat are your most impactful players. EP is really good when he's on, but very inconsistent. I like Hughes to Barrie. Similar type of players.

Major yikes here

 

[Canuck Luck]

Suzuki at the time was largely projecting as a winger in the eyes of many. There wasn't a consensus as to whether he'd be a RW or C at the time of the trade.

He was projecting, and as you said there wasn’t a consensus. So at the time of the trade he was a C and he continued being a C. How does that take away from the fact he is a center prospect that was traded?

most center prospects at some point go through a period where they are eased in on the wing and look to project as wingers. That doesn’t change the fact they are still center prospects and depending on the team, are only playing wing as it’s easier to get accumulated to the nhl as a winger

 

[Captain97]

He was projecting, and as you said there wasn’t a consensus. So at the time of the trade he was a C and he continued being a C. How does that take away from the fact he is a center prospect that was traded?

most center prospects at some point go through a period where they are eased in on the wing and look to project as wingers. That doesn’t change the fact they are still center prospects and depending on the team, are only playing wing as it’s easier to get accumulated to the nhl as a winger

Wtf are you trying to say? A lot of people thought Suzuki would be a winger at the NHL level. Noone was sure if he'd be a winger or Centre. Go read the old posts on Habs boards and also read some of the reports from people in hockey.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

Horvat for the Rangers has always been the hope for me. He's someone you play with Panarin. He does all the dirty work, can score, defend, win faceoffs. With Strome as a UFA at season's end, he fill the 2C role and would have around a palatable salary for next season for the current roster.

Miller is more dynamic, but I'd rather the center that will do everything for you and chip in 55-60 points.

2022 1st is clearly in the deal. Smaller piece in the deal someone like Matthew Robertson? Mobile, 6'4 LHD. With Hughes and OEL, he's add more backbone to the defense on the left side. He's blocked on the Rangers with Miller and Lindgren being the same type of player (Lindgren more defense, Miller with size and skating).

Horvat for 2022 1st, 2022 2nd (higher pick between STL/NYR), Kravtsov, and Robertson?

I think this is the issue with Canucks fans and the Rangers not wanting to include good pieces after the first. They are all bargain bin spare parts and the Canuck fans are saying sorry, Black Friday was a while ago. Adding top players who are still young and great contributors with term from the Canucks won’t be cheap. Filling out our roster with your third/4th tier chicken scratch doesn’t get it done, either does a cast away who might not even play in the league, Kravtsov is a no go. With the war going on in Russian and him taking his ball and going home with a poor attitude he has value of a third round pick at most, it’s unfortunate but hindsight 20/20 it’s what it is now. You want Podkolzin for Schneider? Done! I’m a fan and am knowledgeable about players around the league but you’ve seemed to add a guy I’ve never heard of in a deal for our 26 year old Captain with another year at $5.75 million, Matt Robertson? Is he even in your top 10 prospects? A second round pick around 55th overall? I have a great deal for you since you’re such a great talent evaluator, it’s a steal in your mind. Trade the highly coveted Robertson, 2nd round pick and Kravtsov for Schneider. It’s a 3 for 1, absolutely no brainer right?

 

[Canuck Luck]

Wtf are you trying to say? A lot of people thought Suzuki would be a winger at the NHL level. Noone was sure if he'd be a winger or Centre. Go read the old posts on Habs boards and also read some of the reports from people in hockey.

I’m saying what’s your point? The fact some people thought suzuki may become a winger at the nhl level doesn’t change the fact he was a Center before the trade nor after the trade.

Many projected pettersson as a winger too. Did that make him any less of a Center throughout his career too?

 

[Canadian Canuck]

He can't defend. He's a Barrie type.

Literally stop talking. For your sake. You're making up stats, Hughes starts in the O-Zone less than Makar (56.93 vs 62.54%). Is Makar a bad defender? No. Almost same zone starts as Fox, Hedman and Morrissey as well. He's not sheltered he plays top competition with Luke ***** Schenn. Hughes plays the penalty kill and is a solid defender. You're trolling to get your post count up or something stupid clearly. CLUELESS just stop posting in this thread and peace out.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Care to show where you got 70% because stats show that your stat is imaginary

Cake makar: 62.54%
Quinn hughes: 56.93%
Victor hedman: 54.26%
Adam fox: 51.52%
Josh Morrisey: 51.36%

So Cale makar from the stats is the one that’s heavily sheltered and Quinn hughes is just as sheltered as Norris winning premier defenders in hedman and fox

You must believe morrisey on your beloved jets is heavily sheltered as he only starts 5% less of his shifts in the offensive zone compared to hughes

I’d imagine you’ll just simply ignore and pretend this post doesn’t exist since it points out your obvious trolling

He's an idiot and a troll, everyone should just stop replying to him.

 

[Double Dion]

Literally stop talking. For your sake. You're making up stats, Hughes starts in the O-Zone as much as Makar (59.8% when I checked last week). Is Makar a bad defender? Hughes plays the penalty kill and is a solid defender. You're trolling to get your post count up or something stupid clearly. CLUELESS

No this is false. Hughes starts more than 2/3's of his shifts in the Ozone. Makar starts 60% of them in the Ozone. Makar is an average defender. He's a great offensive player. Hughes and Makar aren't remotely comparable.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

No this is false. Hughes starts more than 2/3's of his shifts in the Ozone. Makar starts 60% of them in the Ozone. Makar is an average defender. He's a great offensive player. Hughes and Makar aren't remotely comparable.

It's literally a ***** fact.. TF you mean it's false?? This is why people get pissed off. Literally, look up the damn statistic. Makar is not an average defender. Stop changing the ***** topic and making this a Hughes vs Makar debate.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

No this is false. Hughes starts more than 2/3's of his shifts in the Ozone. Makar starts 60% of them in the Ozone. Makar is an average defender. He's a great offensive player. Hughes and Makar aren't remotely comparable.

Hughes Ozone starts 66.8%

Makar Ozone Starts 64.9%

Again, wow dude your so committed to being wrong you couldn't even bother to look up the actual numbers. Sad. Calling Makar an average defender too LOL

Just for reference, Hedman Ozone starts are 61.9, is he a below average defender too?

 

[kvladimir]

I still think the deal that makes most sense is Miller to COL, when considering what VAN is looking for, and where COL is in their contention cycle and their cap structure in the mid-term. The deal I have been thinking of is:

COL:

Miller

VAN:

Barron
Olausson
2023 1st

This makes sense because Barron profiles similar to Schneider, but is less proven, and belongs to a team that is already a Stanley Cup contender with a 2 year window that matches Miller's (and MacKinnon's) extremely valuable contracts, without sacrificing too much of their future, which is still great, especially since they don't sacrifice Newhook for this. So, they load up this year to go for it, and even when they inevitably lose Kadri, they still have Newhook and Miller as options for 2C, and Miller still adds to their top 6 next season despite the loss of Kadri.

Not totally sure that is cap compliant, but there you have it. Thoughts?

 

[Canuck86]

I still think the deal that makes most sense is Miller to COL, when considering what VAN is looking for, and where COL is in their contention cycle and their cap structure in the mid-term. The deal I have been thinking of is:

COL:

Miller

VAN:

Barron
Olausson
2023 1st

This makes sense because Barron profiles similar to Schneider, but is less proven, and belongs to a team that is already a Stanley Cup contender with a 2 year window that matches Miller's (and MacKinnon's) extremely valuable contracts, without sacrificing too much of their future, which is still great, especially since they don't sacrifice Newhook for this. So, they load up this year to go for it, and even when they inevitably lose Kadri, they still have Newhook and Miller as options for 2C, and Miller still adds to their top 6 next season despite the loss of Kadri.

Not totally sure that is cap compliant, but there you have it. Thoughts?

I would like to see JT end up with Colorado, I would hold out and ask for Newhook to be part of the deal. I know Colorado fans do NOT want to trade Newhook though

 

[BCNate]

I still think the deal that makes most sense is Miller to COL, when considering what VAN is looking for, and where COL is in their contention cycle and their cap structure in the mid-term. The deal I have been thinking of is:

COL:

Miller

VAN:

Barron
Olausson
2023 1st

This makes sense because Barron profiles similar to Schneider, but is less proven, and belongs to a team that is already a Stanley Cup contender with a 2 year window that matches Miller's (and MacKinnon's) extremely valuable contracts, without sacrificing too much of their future, which is still great, especially since they don't sacrifice Newhook for this. So, they load up this year to go for it, and even when they inevitably lose Kadri, they still have Newhook and Miller as options for 2C, and Miller still adds to their top 6 next season despite the loss of Kadri.

Not totally sure that is cap compliant, but there you have it. Thoughts?

I think that's an offer that would work pretty well for both sides. The 23 1st isn't ideal, but that's the only option.

I'd be curious from Av's fans what the see as the difference between Barron and Helleson?

 

[TheScandal89]

What do you guys think the value is for Horvat? Would his value be higher or lower then Miller in your opinion? Same length at roughly the same cap hit with less offensive production, but still a very valuable player and your captain.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

I would like to see JT end up with Colorado, I would hold out and ask for Newhook to be part of the deal. I know Colorado fans do NOT want to trade Newhook though

I heard Sakic sees Newhook as their 2c soon, but wants a buffer for next season. Miller and Horvat both work perfectly in this situation.

Personally I would keep Miller over Horvat if he is going to resign. If that is still uncertain, keep Horvat as you know he will resign, and will be cheaper.

 

[Boondock]

What do you guys think the value is for Horvat? Would his value be higher or lower then Miller in your opinion? Same length at roughly the same cap hit with less offensive production, but still a very valuable player.

I think the ask would be less due to his lower offensive production, but I don't think it would be significantly less. Horvat is home grown and developed, wears the C, has been a Canuck for longer - I think the optics of trading Horvat makes his asking price higher than maybe his production would suggest.
I'm a Nucks fans so I'm biased as well, maybe Rutherford thinks differently.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Monahan+ for Miller. Gitr done.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Monahan+ for Miller. Gitr done.

Canucks would be looking to get younger… monahan does nothing for us.

 

[kilowatt]

I'm still shooting for something like Walker + Kupari + 1st for Miller.