Friedman: Rutherford/Allvin done assessing Canucks - Everyone available except Pettersson, Hughes, Demko

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Yup watch lots. I live in the West. I don't think Hughes carries the team at all. Demko, Miller and Horvat are your most impactful players. EP is really good when he's on, but very inconsistent. I like Hughes to Barrie. Similar type of players.

LMAO.

100% Bullshit

it obvious u don't watch at all with these takes

 

[Ryder71]

If you go by points, 3rd. The only Avs ahead of Miller by points are Kadri and Rantanen.

OK but that's not exactly realistic. Mackinnons one of the top five guys in the league. lol

 

[Luck 6]

Schneider is not going anywhere. Gallant coached him at the Worlds before becoming the HC of the Rangers. Now, in a season where most thought he was going to spend probably all season in the AHL, he's playing 3rd pair minutes in the NHL. When Fox went down before the All Star break, he was logging ~20 minutes a night and looked pretty decent while doing that.

The Rangers also traded up to get him. Yes, Davidson and Gorton were leading the front office, but Drury was right there with them. He's been stylistically compared to Trouba, and some pre-draft comps stylistically were Shea Weber and Brent Seabrook.

While you do have to give to get an all star level player in Miller, the Rangers just aren't at the stage where moving that kind of a piece out is ideal. Schneider is the immediate Trouba replacement when he is in decline or when he is moved off the roster. Him and Othmann are the two guys I would not give up as a franchise. Their value has only skyrocketed since being drafted. Anyone else not currently in the NHL would be up for grabs, but these two would be off limits for players that will only be around for 1 and a 1/4 seasons.

If Gallant likes Schneider, he’ll REALLY like Miller. Coaches aren’t usually upset when they get better players that make their roster stronger. Coaches have expiry dates, it’s not his job to worry about where the team will be at 5-6 years in the future.

Plus, as others have said, the coach doesn’t determine trades. His opinion has value, but I can’t imagine a scenario where he would want to keep his bottom pairing defenseman over acquiring a center on pace for over 90 points.

 

[JimmyG89]

Ya, because coaches make the deals. BB has said he doesn't want to see Miller gone, and if he gets the best offer, likely will be. BB won't be happy about it, but he will adjust and coach the team.
Gallant will be the same way if Schneider is traded to get Miller. Miller does WAY more for this team now and next season than Schneider does. If Drury thinks they might win the cup with Miller, he makes the deal. If he doesn't think it can happen, he doesn't. Simple as that.

The coach and management will make decisions together, well that is at least what good and competent organizations do. As I mentioned before, Drury was the Assistant GM when Schneider was drafted. He also promoted him this season and has not sent him back to the AHL. He has also not been a scratch either, so clearly the organization is happy with him and his current play.

Drury was asked to get the team into the playoffs. This is expected to happen around the 70 game mark (basing this on the current standings and their magic number to clinch). The Rangers are in what amounts to Year 1 of a decent contention window. Schneider is expected to be a big part of that. The organization identified him as a player they want on the roster when the games get more physical in the postseason.

Obviously he is a very in demand prospect. Both organizations have similar aspirations, with the Canucks probably 1-2 years behind where the NYR are currently. Miller would fill a big role on the Rangers, but the need is slowly becoming a luxury. Lafreniere is running with the 1RW spot. Kakko has played very well in the 2RW spot with Panarin and Strome in the past. That is a huge part of the team's future and while success this season is big, their larger development is just as big for their contender aspirations.

The reality really is that Miller would be a target if they want to make that big push this year. The easiest thing for the organization to do is to add a couple middle 6 type forwards that would not cost them their top prospect. This team is not devoid of top end talent, it is devoid of middle of the lineup talent. It is why I have mentioned Horvat in other posts. Miller is more a 1C, Horvat fills a 2C role and is more of a compliment for someone like Zibanejad. The Miller trade talks have died down as well, he's moved down trade bait boards.

In the end, the majority of the fanbase does not want Schneider moved. We see his value, and we see how that could be very helpful once Game 1 of the Metro playoffs begins and how that will help him develop. Miller definitely has a ton of value as well, but mortgaging a big part of the future is not best in mind for this current team.

 

[bossram]

Lundkvist being the main asset back in a Horvat or Miller trade is really underwhelming, we’re trading one of our best players in their prime on a great contract… it’s beyond underwhelming of a return. If that’s the best our management can do then we have big issues in Vancouver

I didn't say we should accept Lundqvist as the main piece. I explicitly said I don't think Lundkvist is on that calibre of a prospect like Girard was.

The point I'm making is that focusing on some ideal "type" of player right now is dumb. The Canucks are bad. The prospect pool is worse. They have a need for everything. Just get the best package in return possible, not downgrade on total quality because we absolutely must have a right-handed defensive defenseman.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Initially yes but over time his numbers and role dwindled a bit. To be clear I'm not suggesting he's a slouch by any means. But I don't think the AV's need such a guy. At best he'd be what 4th or 5th best forward?

That's true, I can understand that.

 

[iFan]

I didn't say we should accept Lundqvist as the main piece. I explicitly said I don't think Lundkvist is on that calibre of a prospect like Girard was.

The point I'm making is that focusing on some ideal "type" of player right now is dumb. The Canucks are bad. The prospect pool is worse. They have a need for everything. Just get the best package in return possible, not downgrade on total quality because we absolutely must have a right-handed defensive defenseman.

I believe we should identify what type of team we want to work towards and go after those pieces in trades. We know we need a long term partner for Hughes so that should be one of our main targets in a Miller or Horvat trade, this is why so many Canuck fans are looking for a D man like a Schneider. Making trades without a clear direction is what got us in this mess.

 

[Canuck86]

The trend with proposals here has been "we cant give up this guy for Miller, he's too good". And it's like, if every teams good players are untouchable, where is there ever a deal to be made? Miller is an elite player. You have to give to get.

Exactly...Schneider and Newhook are too valuable for their respected teams to give up in a trade...But those same 2 are NOT going to help hoist the Stanley Cup, they may play a small or supporting role but not an impact role like trading for someone like JT Miller.

It's okay, I have always thought Canucks GM's never had balls since Burkie...so until I see a bold trade or two I doubt JT is moved, maybe Boeser if he doesn't agree to a lower cap hit extension before the TDL. But for whatever reason management has NOT made Boeser nor pending UFA Motte a contract offer...Motte is a keeper, Boeser is 1 dimensional and is overpaid currently for his production let alone having to pay him more with term or he just says f*** it and says i will sign my 7.5m QO and if you don't agree I will sign with any of the 31 teams as a UFA!

 

[theguardianII]

If They move Miller then Horvat isnt going anywhere.

Canucks Needs:

- At this point Right D is their biggest Need but D in general is something that needs upgrade. Winger and Goalie is probably their strongest position.

-Rutherford has mentioned Speed and Skill during many many interviews as the type of player he wants to trade for.

-Rutherford has also mentioned clearing cap

- 23 yrs-ish is the age range of players the Canucks are supposedly targeting in any trade return

There's no way both Miller and Horvat are traded right?

What a stupid post, my lord
Canucks are trading a top 15 scorer in the league

I didn't say we should accept Lundqvist as the main piece. I explicitly said I don't think Lundkvist is on that calibre of a prospect like Girard was.

The point I'm making is that focusing on some ideal "type" of player right now is dumb. The Canucks are bad. The prospect pool is worse. They have a need for everything. Just get the best package in return possible, not downgrade on total quality because we absolutely must have a right-handed defensive defenseman.

A lot of proposals have a common theme, Miller wanted to be here to begin with. That Miller is happy here. Both "hopes" are fantasies. He signed a discount contract to be with a cup contender, his home is in Tampa, he pays an extra million in expenses to be here instead of Tampa or other tax free states.
What he has done is increased his value so that many more teams will want him.

Some what the same with Horvat. Players want to win right? Horvat is going on 9 years on this losing team. Even he stated he is getting tired of the losing. He is a FA at the end of his contract.

JR, etal are not Benning, they will not let assets go for free.
They don't see this group as "on the cusp" of being a cup contender, they see it as an "ordinary" team that is slow and the age groups are too diverse.

Right now the team has a much better chance of getting a better return than waiting until the entire league knows they are not being re-signed and will walk for nothing if Vancouver doesn't trade for the "beans", that is next year's TDL scenario if not traded between.

It doesn't take a crystal ball or interpreter to understand what JR and numerous other folk have said, the status quo will not do, get under the cap, under, get more younger players, Van fans will understand how Tampa, Pittsburgh, Florida, Carolina and Chicago were built to contenders, it has been stated a step back for a few years. The goal is not to be trying to make the playoffs, it is to be trying to play for the cup.

This is going to be a rebuild but with star level players traded it need not be another decade in the making.

Boeser with retention and OEL with 10% retention to Boston for WHY? Boston because OEL had that as the other team. Create cap space.

 

[bossram]

I believe we should identify what type of team we want to work towards and go after those pieces in trades. We know we need a long term partner for Hughes so that should be one of our main targets in a Miller or Horvat trade, this is why so many Canuck fans are looking for a D man like a Schneider. Making trades without a clear direction is what got us in this mess.

Well yeah, Benning never had a direction beyond trying to think about what he'll eat for breakfast tomorrow, and deciding which mediocre player whose reputation flatters him he'll try to acquire next. The bar is on the floor.

The direction the team needs now is, "get younger and cheaper". If the best package you can get in a Miller/Horvat/Boeser trade includes an offensive defenseman, then do it. If it's a forward, do it. If it happens to be a Barron or Schneider type, that's great too.

But over-focusing on one specific player type will make them miss the forest for the trees and lose any potential trade they make.

 

[Boondock]

Initially yes but over time his numbers and role dwindled a bit. To be clear I'm not suggesting he's a slouch by any means. But I don't think the AV's need such a guy. At best he'd be what 4th or 5th best forward?

If Miller was to be traded to the Avs, I would think one of the biggest benefits would be the #2C role next season while Newhook transitions and Kadri prices himself off the team in free agency. So maybe the 4th best forward this year, but the 3rd best year behind Rantanen and MacK.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

If Miller was to be traded to the Avs, I would think one of the biggest benefits would be the #2C role next season while Newhook transitions and Kadri prices himself off the team in free agency. So maybe the 4th best forward this year, but the 3rd best year behind Rantanen and MacK.

Landeskog is better.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

No

Landeskog is better.

Not better than JT Miller.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

Solid offer, it lacks a 1st I’d generally want. Add soderblom and I’d do this deal!

only issue I have with this at that poi is we are allocating even more cap and crowding our blue line even more without moving any salary from the d out

Yeah, I get it lacks a 1st but Detroits first could be a lottery pick this year lol.

Soderblom is not a throw in, hes top 3 in scoring in the SHL and is 20 years old and 6 foot 8, looking like a 6th round gem

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Landeskog is better.

No he is not. And I’m a huge Landy fan

 

[elitepete]

No

Not better than JT Miller.

No he is not. And I’m a huge Landy fan

I'd take Landeskog over Miller.

 

[tyhee]

There's no way both Miller and Horvat are traded right?

I think most Canuck fans would say that is correct.

I'm not among them, though. I think part of that depends on what the Canucks think their chances are of extending either or both of them in or before the summer of 2023 and part, of course, would depend on what they are offered.

It is probably very unlikely they'd both be traded by this year's trade deadline, but if they don't sign extensions this summer, the Canucks could field offers for both of them.

 

[nowhereman]

Lmao

Why do people pretend they watch the Canucks when clearly they don’t

You can't always assume people are lying when they say they watch the game. It could just be that they have no idea how to evaluate what they're watching, which qualifies a good portion of casual hockey fans. It sounds like this is the case with this poster.

 

[zodiacbiller]

Hughes worst games are as good as Barries best games.

I defended Barrie a lot while he was in Toronto. Do you just hate Hughes or something?

 

[zodiacbiller]

Yup watch lots. I live in the West. I don't think Hughes carries the team at all. Demko, Miller and Horvat are your most impactful players. EP is really good when he's on, but very inconsistent. I like Hughes to Barrie. Similar type of players.

This is the sorta thing that reminds me of when I got into reading old sports columns and would see someone say Ron Sutter should win the MVP over Wayne Gretzky. Just absurd and laughable and outmoded thinking. Those guys are good players, as I've said ITT. But Petey is an MVPish-level guy having a rough run of luck at like 22, and the only reason Hughes can't be the best D-Man of his generation is cuz Cale Makar exists (though, disclosure, I thought he'd be better than Makar until it became really obvious Makar is one of the probably five best D ever). I'm 29 and I've been annoyed by Canucks fans on the internet for like 20 years. I don't *want* to praise them. But they have so much going for them, there are only a few guys who could screw that up. Sadly, one of those guys was their last GM, and I'm not JR's biggest fan, but I think they're gonna be fine. (I am Boudreau's biggest fan, and that stands even if his mom's still alive, Scarborough boy, love him to death, best coach in the NHL).

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

You can't always assume people are lying when they say they watch the game. It could just be that they have no idea how to evaluate what they're watching, which qualifies a good portion of casual hockey fans. It sounds like this is the case with this poster.

Who said I “always assume” ?

with their post history, their lack of argument against hughes, and the fact we’re discussing who is driving the play; one of the easier things to observe, I’m wagering he’s just straight up lying

 

[nowhereman]

Who said I “always assume” ?

with their post history, their lack of argument against hughes, and the fact we’re discussing who is driving the play; one of the easier things to observe, I’m wagering he’s just straight up lying

You took that post waaaay too seriously, especially when I was insulting the other poster and not you.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

Boeser for a first and a post card. He will get more but I feel bad for the team that acquire’s him.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

I defended Barrie a lot while he was in Toronto. Do you just hate Hughes or something?

Huh? Did you read my post? Reread it until you understand it.

 

[zodiacbiller]

Huh? Did you read my post? Reread it until you understand it.

I was making a joke that Hughes at his worst is much, much better than Barrie at his best.