Speculation: Rumour, Trade, and Free Agent Speculation 2018-19 - Part II

[Hunter368]

Nylander at 2C between Dutch boy and Laine! Wow!

Leafs get Little, Perreault, Petan, Chariot.....

I see no realistic deal with the Leafs regarding Nylander and the Jets.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You'd rather have another pick?

A 1st? Yes! And no way I use a perfectly good 1st on a rental.

Risto's stats are hurt by playing for the Sabres - but the Jets aren't some wonderful place where players who have under-performed come to be rejuvenated. This is his 24 YO season and his 6th in the NHL. He pretty much is what he will be.

He's a better PP QB than Trouba. He may or may not be better than Myers. I doubt he is better than Buff and I think Morrissey might be better than any of them, although JoMo doesn't have as big a shot.

He's probably also been hurt the same way Myers was, by being played above his skill level. I suggest that he would be much the same here as Myers has been, an overpaid #5 or a 4/5 tweener.

 

[Daximus]

A 1st? Yes! And no way I use a perfectly good 1st on a rental.

Risto's stats are hurt by playing for the Sabres - but the Jets aren't some wonderful place where players who have under-performed come to be rejuvenated. This is his 24 YO season and his 6th in the NHL. He pretty much is what he will be.

He's a better PP QB than Trouba. He may or may not be better than Myers. I doubt he is better than Buff and I think Morrissey might be better than any of them, although JoMo doesn't have as big a shot.

He's probably also been hurt the same way Myers was, by being played above his skill level. I suggest that he would be much the same here as Myers has been, an overpaid #5 or a 4/5 tweener.

So you'd rather have two 1sts for Trouba? That sets us back substantially. Maybe in a development year I'd be okay with that return but not right now.
I disagree with him being 24 and finished development. There is plenty one can learn at 24 as a dman if there is a skill level there to work with. Watch a Buffalo game when he's on the PP and tell me he can't get shots through and makes better passes and decisions then Myers. His teammates have a lot of issues converting on that PP. Buff is also pretty well developed at the same age I don't think he was even playing defence though I could be wrong if he was he wasn't doing much on the PP for a QB.

Ristos biggest issue in Buffalo is he's being utilized like a two-way shutdown type when he isn't. Mostly because they don't have anyone else to fill that 1RD roll. He plays 18 minutes 5v5 a night on their 1st pairing with a tonne of defensive zone starts as well as the most PK minutes on the team. It's not that he is playing above his level he is just being utilized incorrectly, we can change that here and I guarantee he will be better than Myers.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So you'd rather have two 1sts for Trouba? That sets us back substantially. Maybe in a development year I'd be okay with that return but not right now.
I disagree with him being 24 and finished development. There is plenty one can learn at 24 as a dman if there is a skill level there to work with. Watch a Buffalo game when he's on the PP and tell me he can't get shots through and makes better passes and decisions then Myers. His teammates have a lot of issues converting on that PP. Buff is also pretty well developed at the same age I don't think he was even playing defence though I could be wrong if he was he wasn't doing much on the PP for a QB.

Ristos biggest issue in Buffalo is he's being utilized like a two-way shutdown type when he isn't. Mostly because they don't have anyone else to fill that 1RD roll. He plays 18 minutes 5v5 a night on their 1st pairing with a tonne of defensive zone starts as well as the most PK minutes on the team. It's not that he is playing above his level he is just being utilized incorrectly, we can change that here and I guarantee he will be better than Myers.

I didn't say there could be zero improvement in Risto - but he needs massive improvement, not incremental improvement. He is really, seriously, bad defensively. I do not want him on the Jets.

It isn't that I want 2 firsts for Trouba. It is that I don't see Risto as being any kind of return on him at all. I would much rather have two 1sts than have Risto + one 1st. Risto does not = a 1st.

You could be right that he could blossom with different usage, but you immediately put him on the 1st pair. How is that different? More O zone starts? I think he needs a helluva lot more than that. His career with Sabres is almost a carbon copy of Myers'. So maybe he is a little better on the PP. Doesn't matter. He would be on PP2 here.

I'm not interested in taking a chance on a reclamation project.

I don't think we are going to agree here Dax. I don't see Risto as being able to help us. You do. I respect your opinions, but I reserve the right to sometimes disagree.

 

[Daximus]

I didn't say there could be zero improvement in Risto - but he needs massive improvement, not incremental improvement. He is really, seriously, bad defensively. I do not want him on the Jets.

It isn't that I want 2 firsts for Trouba. It is that I don't see Risto as being any kind of return on him at all. I would much rather have two 1sts than have Risto + one 1st. Risto does not = a 1st.

You could be right that he could blossom with different usage, but you immediately put him on the 1st pair. How is that different? More O zone starts? I think he needs a helluva lot more than that. His career with Sabres is almost a carbon copy of Myers'. So maybe he is a little better on the PP. Doesn't matter. He would be on PP2 here.

I'm not interested in taking a chance on a reclamation project.

I don't think we are going to agree here Dax. I don't see Risto as being able to help us. You do. I respect your opinions, but I reserve the right to sometimes disagree.

That's fair but I will always argue my point. We aren't getting a Trouba clone, we aren't getting a 2C. I think the sooner we give up on that pipe dream the more clearer it becomes that this is likely the best it's going to be. Letting Trouba walk for nothing is a disaster for this team.

 

[ecolad]

Almost all of our discussions recognize that we have 2 fundamental concerns in front of us (1) how to get maximum value from the Trouba situation (sign him to what is likely to be an unjustifiable contract; trade him at some point in time, for maximum achievable asset return; or, extract maximum value from him and let him walk as a UFA), and (2) how to realistically fill the hole at 2C, made more difficult with the line makeup that Maurice has stuck with to date. These are matters that should be addressed by management as part of normal "team building", through succession planning from within the org, or through strategic hockey trades. Short term trade flips and especially rental trades, in the hope that they will create immediate change for a cup run, are NOT the answer. When you next review a proposal put forward, be sure to ask yourself - what are the consequences of this proposed action come training camp next year ?

 

[Daximus]

Almost all of our discussions recognize that we have 2 fundamental concerns in front of us (1) how to get maximum value from the Trouba situation (sign him to what is likely to be an unjustifiable contract; trade him at some point in time, for maximum achievable asset return; or, extract maximum value from him and let him walk as a UFA), and (2) how to realistically fill the hole at 2C, made more difficult with the line makeup that Maurice has stuck with to date. These are matters that should be addressed by management as part of normal "team building", through succession planning from within the org, or through strategic hockey trades. Short term trade flips and especially rental trades, in the hope that they will create immediate change for a cup run, are NOT the answer. When you next review a proposal put forward, be sure to ask yourself - what are the consequences of this proposed action come training camp next year ?

Holding onto Trouba and letting him walk is bar none the worst thing we can do.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That's fair but I will always argue my point. We aren't getting a Trouba clone, we aren't getting a 2C. I think the sooner we give up on that pipe dream the more clearer it becomes that this is likely the best it's going to be. Letting Trouba walk for nothing is a disaster for this team.

I can accept that. But after this season he should bring at least the kind of return that is typical for pending UFA's at that time of year. I think that would be a 1st + a good prospect or a good roster player.

I agree that letting him walk is a disaster. I am absolutely against that. But even that is preferable to taking Risto in trade. He won't earn his contract, IMO. That is 4 years at 5.5 mil, would be down to 3x5.4 after this season.

How about Sabres keep Risto and the 2 later 1sts? Give us McCabe and their own 1st.

 

[Daximus]

I can accept that. But after this season he should bring at least the kind of return that is typical for pending UFA's at that time of year. I think that would be a 1st + a good prospect or a good roster player.

I agree that letting him walk is a disaster. I am absolutely against that. But even that is preferable to taking Risto in trade. He won't earn his contract, IMO. That is 4 years at 5.5 mil, would be down to 3x5.4 after this season.

How about Sabres keep Risto and the 2 later 1sts? Give us McCabe and their own 1st.

McCabe is an upgrade on Chiarot and Morrow but not much more than a good #5-6. Risto could easily be a solid #2-3 IMO. Sabres would undoubtedly lotto protect their first and with Trouba they might actually be pretty decent though maybe not a playoff team. Risto at least gives us a defencemen we can use on the right side after we likely let Myers go.

 

[Maukkis]

When you are trading a big asset, you need to do one of the following.

a) get the best package of assets that help you win now, or
b) get the best package of assets that help you win later. This includes cap space.

Never, ever half-assedly trade a good player for a mixture of a and b. See: O'Reilly, Ryan.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

So you'd rather have two 1sts for Trouba? That sets us back substantially. Maybe in a development year I'd be okay with that return but not right now.

I hate to be a pessimist but this may yet turn into a development year. I would take the possibility of high picks turning into good prospects in the future over getting mediocre players for now.

 

[Daximus]

I hate to be a pessimist but this may yet turn into a development year. I would take the possibility of high picks turning into good prospects in the future over getting mediocre players for now.

Anyone we draft this year is likely 2-3 years away with late picks and we become immediately worse with out Trouba and a replacement.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

McCabe is an upgrade on Chiarot and Morrow but not much more than a good #5-6. Risto could easily be a solid #2-3 IMO. Sabres would undoubtedly lotto protect their first and with Trouba they might actually be pretty decent though maybe not a playoff team. Risto at least gives us a defencemen we can use on the right side after we likely let Myers go.

Can we drop this Dax? I'm not going to agree with you. I think Risto is a black hole defensively. His potential is to be slightly less of a black hole. I don't want him on the Jets. If he is on the Jets we have a problem that needs fixing. Therefore he can't be part of a solution to our current problems.

 

[Daximus]

Can we drop this Dax? I'm not going to agree with you. I think Risto is a black hole defensively. His potential is to be slightly less of a black hole. I don't want him on the Jets. If he is on the Jets we have a problem that needs fixing. Therefore he can't be part of a solution to our current problems.

Fair I'm just arguing my point. If we don't agree, we don't agree. But I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Risto on this team come the trade deadline.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Fair I'm just arguing my point. If we don't agree, we don't agree. But I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Risto on this team come the trade deadline.

Fair enough.

 

[jgimp]

Fair I'm just arguing my point. If we don't agree, we don't agree. But I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Risto on this team come the trade deadline.

I would rather go after Pesce

 

[Jet]

A 1st? Yes! And no way I use a perfectly good 1st on a rental.

Risto's stats are hurt by playing for the Sabres - but the Jets aren't some wonderful place where players who have under-performed come to be rejuvenated. This is his 24 YO season and his 6th in the NHL. He pretty much is what he will be.

He's a better PP QB than Trouba. He may or may not be better than Myers. I doubt he is better than Buff and I think Morrissey might be better than any of them, although JoMo doesn't have as big a shot.

He's probably also been hurt the same way Myers was, by being played above his skill level. I suggest that he would be much the same here as Myers has been, an overpaid #5 or a 4/5 tweener.

Saying a 24 year old defenseman is pretty much is what he will be is patently false.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Is there any difference between not trading Trouba for prospect and 1st rounder next summer (ie keeping him) and trading a prospect and 1st rounder for Paul Stastny?

 

[Daximus]

Looks like Dano is on waivers. Wonder if he gets claimed.

 

[Daximus]

I would rather go after Pesce

Is he available?

 

[Board Bard]

Wouldn't surprise me if the Oilers picked up Dano.

 

[jgimp]

Is he available?

Not sure but there are rumors floating around about a Nylander/Pesce swap here and there. Rumors of course, but Carolina does have the deepest D pool in the league and need some forward help. I could see a signed Trouba and one Petan/Lemieux/Spacek for Pesce and Bean. We may need to add a 2nd or 3rd rounder pick to even out or another toss in. Carolina may work with Trouba. Only a short flight to FLA and no customs to deal with. East coast and nice weather.

 

[mcpw]

Not sure but there are rumors floating around about a Nylander/Pesce swap here and there.

Those aren't rumors, those are fanfic.

 

[jgimp]

Those aren't rumors, those are fanfic.

I know, but one can dream

 

[Whileee]

I'd be shocked if Dano isn't claimed. My goodness, the Jets have mishandled him. He also deserves a lot of the blame for failing to get and stay in top condition as a young player.