Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2021-22 Pt. VI - When You Have Time….Use It

[Quickdraw2828]

That is different

 

[SI90]

 

[Throttle]

Right, like I said, you completely ignore what it really means to be an RFA in the NHL..

Sure do. The player is restricted. He can hold out and force a trade. There's plenty of precedent for it.

 

[Throttle]

The dispute isn't really about the doctor, it's about the two different procedures. Eichel's doctor can perform either one, he just doesn't feel that it is in Eichel's best interest to have the fusion so he is hesitant to be forced into performing it. And even if another well-qualified doctor that Buffalo approved of was to offer to perform the disk replacement, as I understand it, Buffalo would still say no to it.

So, let's see what happens. The net result of Eichel's camp is he must have this surgery, which in essence means every other team that trades for him must accept that condition. This is all player agent spin. Most likely in the end Jackie does not have the surgery once he's on another team.

 

[periferal]

That's not the point. I wanna see if Aho should even stay on this roster, and not as a 2nd pair player but more as a 7th man. if they do a trade, then they better look at Lindholm or Fowler. I want them to pry away someone from an anaheim team that pretty much is begging to go for Wright

I'm all for competition. If Ago can "stay on the roster" as a 7th D-man because he's EARNED it - I'm all for that.

But just giving a gut a leg up, even to be the 7th defenseman, just because he's 25 is insanity. Whether you're 17 or 80 you shouldn't be given a thing and instead ave to earn everything.

 

[periferal]

I’m not trying to be obnoxious but if Aho is in the top six game one, that means Lou and Barry see something in him and KNOW it will work.

this is a win now team with competent management. Seeing sexy names fly off the board and not coming to the island is something we should be used to. Lou is 78 and this is a veteran team, I don’t see guys just getting a shot bc they “should” workout.

You're not being obnoxious at all. That said if Aho is in the lineup come game 1 it doesn't necessarily mean that Lou/Trotz KNOW he will work out. It could be that Lou tries all summer to find a legit top-4 D-man and the prices were just crazy. Like if Francis is looking for a 1st+ for Dunn or Ahaheim wants 2 1sts and Beauvillier for Lindholm.

I'll trust in Lou/Trotz, but not for a second do I think that they think riding with this current D-corps for the 2022 playoffs is going to net the Islanders a Stanley Cup.

 

[pursuit81]

So, let's see what happens. The net result of Eichel's camp is he must have this surgery, which in essence means every other team that trades for him must accept that condition. This is all player agent spin. Most likely in the end Jackie does not have the surgery once he's on another team.

Let's put it this way, if Buffalo or another club ultimately allows him to have the replacement surgery and he then says, "ah, I don't think so" then I will agree that you have been right about him all along.

 

[periferal]

A final note on Anaheim - they have been very quiet this off-season.

I think they are the lead candidate for Eichel.

Word is Buffalo is holding out for Zegras, but Anaheim is adamant about not dealing him. If they did I think a deal happens mighty quick.

If we traded away Leddy only to have to trade more assets to pick up Dunn, who IS a downgrade over Leddy, then that's failure. Especially with a handful of adequate replacements on the free market.

So, I sure hope that isn't what goes down.

Quite honestly, I CANNOT believe we weren't able to add Murray for 1 yr x 2 MM.

I'm feeling quite disappointed right now, because I felt he'd fit in very well as LD2 on short term to adequately fill a spot until Bolduc and/or Salo would be ready.

And when I see this combined with the lack of moves, I'm beginning to think we're extremely handicapped by Pelech's situation. Maybe a lot more than we have thought. Seems like all the math was dependent on him NOT becoming a 7+ MM player per year.

ASIDE:
I'd like to once again point out that the most valuable asset we have right now is our 2022 1st. This is the first round of the century and we've already gone 3 of 5 years without a first rounder. Even Washington manages to keep just about all of its first rounders.

Furthermore, if we're going to move this pick in a run for the Cup, then that will need to be done at the trading deadline, when we know EXACTLY what we're missing. By then, everyone will also know how truly promising next summer's draft is.

This is pretty much gospel.

The only thing I'd disagree with is waiting until the 2022 deadline to trade the 2022 1st. If a deal comes up now like involving Lindholm (with an extension) with the '22 1st going out the door I'd do that. Sometimes players are just so good/what you need that the value is there for both your short and long term needs.

That being said, the 2022 1st should NOT be traded...

1. For anything less than a 1st line winger or top-end defenseman
2. And that player must have at least 3 years left on their current contract...Or come with an extension.

I will consider Lou not adhering to those 2 things a gross misusage of assets.

Other options besides Taransenko:

The Sabres are indicating they are willing to retain some of Eichel's $10m caphit. I can't see them wanting him in the east.

Arizona's got Kessel and Dvorak on the trade block. Kessel is due $1m in salary on his remaining 1 yr. A Yotes fan pointed out if they retain 50%,that leaves his new team on the hook for less then $4m caphit.

Tomas Tater is still looking for a contract.

Eichel is too expensive, risky, and would gum up our cap again after getting it in order. We need wings and D - Not a C.

Kessel certainly has talent, but hard to believe he fits into this locker room.

Tatar definitely can help with offense, but he's not a playoff performer so don't see Lou pursuing him.

Anybody/Aho should scare the hell out of you.

25 years old, 4 pro years under his belt already, smallish, never shown to be good in his own end, I think the book is closed on Aho as an NHLer. Trade him or cut him. I think we already know what he can do.

Actually no. We all know why Leddy was jettisoned.

And no-one expected him to replaced from within, but rather with a considerably cheaper comparable from the outside.

But if that "comparable" can only be acquired by using our '22 1st rounder - the best draft of the century - to bring in a guy who'll be making upwards of 3+ MM anyways (in light of all the other guys we're keeping who are getting raises), then the asset management is a failure.

BTW, from a cap standpoint, we'd have been just as happy to lose Leddy to Seattle and trade Eberle for Panik and a 2nd rounder.

It's just that there was a bigger and better market for Leddy.

The main point is that the somewhat comparable Leddy replacement we all know needs to be acquired could have just been acquired only for money on the free market.

That opportunity now seems to have passed and it's looking like the Pelech situation is the main culprit.

...Unless this team is somehow able to bring in someone totally under the radar whose play goes beyond expectations.

The plot it thickening.

Where was this "bigger and better market for Leddy?" Are you saying that other teams were offering more for Leddy and Lou took a lesser deal?

 

[The Wahligator]

Just over 3.5M left with Sanford and Thomas still to sign.

Tarasenko’s gotta be on the move soon.

 

[periferal]

Pegulas also threatening to move the Bills to Austin haha. Pretty clear they suck

It's called...Negotiating. If wang knew how to do it instead of professing his undying love for NY so politicians knew they didn't have to deal with him, we might've had a brand new shiny car-free arena sooner.

The Pegula's were the same owners when Jackie signed his deal. If he didn't like them, then he should have asked out at that time, but he didn't. Look at how the team just unfolded underneath him as the Captain with the coach he championed for.

A-f***ing-men.

If you truly want out from any team...Don't sign their long-term. Shows you value money over winning and your complaints after the fact might be valid, but fall on you.

 

[CupHolders]

Updated article from Staple. Pretty much nothing new. Talks a little about LD trade possibilities.

Thought his take on Vincent Dunn was interesting and I also disagree with it. Basically that the Isles (compete now mode) might hesitate with someone if Dunn’s experience. But I’m pretty sure Dunn already played some solid minutes during St.Louis’ cup run.

Anyway @Throttle … you can go ahead and have at this hack now!

What are the Islanders doing? Clues about the Isles' defense options, forward logjam and more

 

[Tres Peleches]

It's called...Negotiating. If wang knew how to do it instead of professing his undying love for NY so politicians knew they didn't have to deal with him, we might've had a brand new shiny car-free arena sooner.

Call it what you will. I call it a sleazeball move

 

[MJF]

He's likely in store for more minutes and greater PP responsibility, but I'd be SHOCKED if they play Dobson on the left side.

In fact, WHY place any of our righties on the left side?

If you're going to do that, then you might as well sign Vatanen and have him on the left.

But we can all rest assured that short of an injury, Trotz' gameplan is all about a lefty with a righty.

PS) Didn't we already clarify in his rookie season that Dobson is lightyears better on the right side than the left?

It won’t be on his off hand. I think if Dobson’s camp goes well he ends up paired with Pelech on the top 4. Pulock on the 2nd pair, Mayfield the 3rd pair.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Those who do are not part of the we.

We all means everybody, I assumed. I don't agree. There's no we.

 

[hunter7isles]

It won’t be on his off hand. I think if Dobson’s camp goes well he ends up paired with Pelech on the top 4. Pulock on the 2nd pair, Mayfield the 3rd pair.

I do like this idea, as I alluded to earlier. Pelech helped Pulock's defensive flaws as he was learning and now he is top notch defensively himself. With Dobson, it could work even better because Pelech would afford Dobson some leeway to use those puck handling skills and take more risks. This would also balance our defensive pairings out. That said, I think we still need to trade for a LD. Ease Bolduc and/or Salo in next year if they show they are ready.

 

[TeamKidd]

I don't know why I keep checking here thinking something is going to break. We will likely find out like we did last year...when they show up at training camp...

 

[SI]

Well presented.

If we moved Leddy for a 2nd so as to move our 22 1st to replace Leddy, that's a high degree of asset management failure.

Wouldn't that depend on the player brought in?

I am grouping these quotes together.

I knew once I added the '22#1 as a way to bring in a top 4 d man - I would be inviting this discussion with @Chapin Landvogt.

The expansion draft complicates things - it is clear Seattle was going to select Leddy as they favored d men in the ED. Lou was able to get value in a 2021 2nd (52 OA), which turned out to be (Raty) AND That allowed them to trade '21 2nd (60 OA) with another '22 2nd to jettison the Ladd contract with a clear conscience. Also, it pushed Seattle to take Eberle, who Lou tried to trade, but in the end, could not find a trade partner, or else he would have made a deal.

So to label this as asset mismanagement is not entirely accurate, since it does not take into account the complications of the expansion draft as well as the complications of the free-agent market... they obviously tried for Suter (and lost out), Goligoski (for 5m? was a shocker and probably too rich for Isles blood), and Murray - well let's be honest he sucks! And cannot stay healthy, so let's not label him as some major upgrade to the top 4 and rather than the best of a bad lot.

And to RDC's point - YES, it also depends on the acquired player... for example, if it is Hampus Lindholm for a package centered around the '22 1st... say an additional '23 2nd plus a prospect like Bellows or Wilde.

The assets mgmt looks like this :

Out - Leddy, 2022 1st, 2023 2nd, Wilde (using the better prospect), and f*** it throw in Bellows.
vs.
IN - Lindholm and 2021 2nd (Raty)

I do not think this is asset mismanagement, since

A: We were set to lose Leddy anyway
B: Lindholm is a far superior defender and 4 years younger than Leddy and makes the team better
C: Bellows can be lost to waivers if he doesn't make the team.

Who doesn't consider this trade?

This is just a brutal suggestion.

Like I said in my post, I do not like this trade, but it is the only trade I can see if the isles use Bailey as trade bait for a D-man. The only other player I can see Bailey help acquire is Fowler. Please, do the research, but it bothers me when posters say, "JUST trade Bailey for D." WHO? I don't see any team taking on that term and AAV. and giving up a top 4 d man maybe Carolina b/c Skjei is flawed and cost the same... maybe Fowler because he is signed for 5 years at a higher cap hit. That's it, folks. Find me another one.

Yes, it would. But it's difficult to imagine that such a player would also come at a lower $$$ cost than Leddy too. And Leddy was jettisoned for cap-related reasons.

Still, I'll clarify that my statement is in conjunction with the realm of the currently thinkable options, so that means names like i.e. Dunn, Fowler, and Lindholm.

Naturally, there could a surprise option that we, the common folk, don't see or readily know about.

In general though, Leddy's replacement would have best been acquired solely per money on the free market.

Why does it have to be at a lower cost? Leddy was jettisoned for expansion draft purposes - mainly. They could fit his 5.5 cap hit right now. It would mean moving Leo's contract out and if this offseason has shown us anything it is that - teams can rid themselves of bad contracts. There are creative ways to jettison Hickey and Leo and one way would be taking a page out of Tampa's playbook and trade for Kesler.

Yes, yes, yes - the free-agent market would have been the best possible route since it cost just money - Reilly, Oleksiak, Suter all would have been great, but they were outbid.

So, now what?

 

[MJF]

I do like this idea, as I alluded to earlier. Pelech helped Pulock's defensive flaws as he was learning and now he is top notch defensively himself. With Dobson, it could work even better because Pelech would afford Dobson some leeway to use those puck handling skills and take more risks. This would also balance our defensive pairings out. That said, I think we still need to trade for a LD. Ease Bolduc and/or Salo in next year if they show they are ready.

I may be one of the few people here who are extremely bullish on Noah Dobson. I saw a kid who was starting to get comfortable directing the guys on his power play unit. Then he got COVID and didn’t look quite right when he returned. Wasn’t until the Bruins series where I thought he had his stamina back.

I think there’s going to be some handwringing about breaking up Pulock-Pelech but if Dobson has a good camp he should be elevated. Get a replacement defenseman like Vatanaen as I said before and stick him down-lineup.

 

[Throttle]

Updated article from Staple. Pretty much nothing new. Talks a little about LD trade possibilities.

Thought his take on Vincent Dunn was interesting and I also disagree with it. Basically that the Isles (compete now mode) might hesitate with someone if Dunn’s experience. But I’m pretty sure Dunn already played some solid minutes during St.Louis’ cup run.

Anyway @Throttle … you can go ahead and have at this hack now!

What are the Islanders doing? Clues about the Isles' defense options, forward logjam and more

Your first two sentences can be put on repeat…

 

[buud]

A lot of us would be assholes if our employer was trying to interfere in our doctor/patient relationship and second-guessing what our doctor recommended we do.

he's out having drinks, and treats the servers like shit, on multiple occassions. he is an ass. can i mention that he makes more in 1 year, than most do in a lifetime? yeah, lots of things to be grateful about too.

we can all find shit to be angry about, if we want.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

We do not know who Lou did or did not try to acquire from the free agent market.

Yep, we only know who we haven't acquired.

We know any speculation from "experts" is nonsense as Lou doesn't leak. He could have been in on Suter (got way too expensive), Goligovski (same), Murray (may just have chose Colorado as it is an attractive landing spot), etc. and ended up without any of them.

Yep, just know who we haven't ended up with.

You can't say he made a poor calculation because Leddy was going either way and I am extremely skeptical of what Eberle's trade value would be had we given up Leddy for free to the Kraken.

Where did I say that?

The text of mine that you felt like quoting was:
<<<
Well presented.

If we moved Leddy for a 2nd so as to move our 22 1st to replace Leddy, that's a high degree of asset management failure.
<<<

That's an "if/then" theoretical. And I'll stand by it if comes down to that, because it would be asset management failure, depending on the player brought back. Then again, we can't be bringing back someone as expensive as Leddy, because he was moved for cap space creation reasons.

Which brings us to...

Let's just have the patience to see where this all ends up and we can then all judge once the final team is in place. I would hate it if my work I do for my job were judged part of the way through but I am pretty confident in the consistent end product of my work. I really feel that Lou has earned the benefit of the doubt, personally based on his track record with us and going far back before his time with us.

Contrary to the impression you've gotten from my posts today, you're very much preaching to the choir.

Something tells me you're new to this thread - and the half dozen that came before it.

Alas, if we stifle any notion of viable concern with "Lou has earned the benefit of the doubt", which the results to date sure as hell mean he has, what are we going to talk about in this thread?

What we know after just six days of a free agency is that the period of time spent in the shroud of silence has coincided with viable defensive options signing elsewhere - whatever their reasons were. And as mentioned above, whatever Lou's doing behind the scenes, the weight of its magnitude continues to grow as a result thereof.

That's just the way it is.

We're all looking forward to the answers and solutions he'll have.

 

[buud]

Speak for yourself. He's been jerked around by a franchise that makes the late 90s Isles look like a well oiled machine. Well, almost anyway. That would sour anyone. The bottom line is that he's a world class talent who wants to win and I don't remember the reports of him being an ass before he got to Buffalo. In fact, I don't remember the reports of him being an ass at all really, unless being fed up makes him an ass.

i did, lol. did i speak for you? someone else? smh...

i don't feel sorry for him, nor want him on my team.

 

[hunter7isles]

Yep, we only know who we haven't acquired.



Yep, just know who we haven't ended up with.



Where did I say that?

The text of mine that you felt like quoting was:
<<<
Well presented.

If we moved Leddy for a 2nd so as to move our 22 1st to replace Leddy, that's a high degree of asset management failure.
<<<

That's an "if/then" theoretical. And I'll stand by it if comes down to that, because it would be asset management failure, depending on the player brought back. Then again, we can't be bringing back someone as expensive as Leddy, because he was moved for cap space creation reasons.

Which brings us to...



Contrary to the impression you've gotten from my posts today, you're very much preaching to the choir.

Something tells me you're new to this thread - and the half dozen that came before it.

Alas, if we stifle any notion of viable concern with "Lou has earned the benefit of the doubt", which the results to date sure as hell mean he has, what are we going to talk about in this thread?

What we know after just six days of a free agency is that the period of time spent in the shroud of silence has coincided with viable defensive options signing elsewhere - whatever their reasons were. And as mentioned above, whatever Lou's doing behind the scenes, the weight of its magnitude continues to grow as a result thereof.

That's just the way it is.

We're all looking forward to the answers and solutions he'll have.

For those that they did NOT acquire, the only one that came at a reasonable price was Ryan Murray. If he wanted Colorado, can you really blame him? AS for Suter and Goligovski, were you really willing to pay those prices/term? Anyone else that we did NOT get, that you are upset about based on the cost?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

This is pretty much gospel.

The only thing I'd disagree with is waiting until the 2022 deadline to trade the 2022 1st. If a deal comes up now like involving Lindholm (with an extension) with the '22 1st going out the door I'd do that. Sometimes players are just so good/what you need that the value is there for both your short and long term needs.

That being said, the 2022 1st should NOT be traded...

1. For anything less than a 1st line winger or top-end defenseman
2. And that player must have at least 3 years left on their current contract...Or come with an extension.

I will consider Lou not adhering to those 2 things a gross misusage of assets.

That would, in general, make sense, but I know a few people who are, in this case, big detractors of Lindholm. Apparently, he's not been what he was his first two seasons for quite a few years now. And he's already earning a tick over 5 MM per. That's basically Leddy money as is.

The notion is ok, but this ain't the guy to dish off your 22nd 1st for.

I might think differently if we were talking about a Chychrun or Nurse.

But in general - we don't have the budget right now to find a Leddy replacement who is much more than 3 MM per.

Where was this "bigger and better market for Leddy?" Are you saying that other teams were offering more for Leddy and Lou took a lesser deal?

Slight misunderstanding here.

I was saying that there was a bigger and better market for Leddy - than for Eberle.

Hence, our being able to move him before the expansion draft.

 

[pursuit81]

i did, lol. did i speak for you? someone else? smh...

i don't feel sorry for him, nor want him on my team.

".....he is exactly the kind of player that we don't want." I don't know who the "we" is that you're speaking for, but I'm not necessarily among them - that would depend on the price and his health - and I certainly am not among those who wouldn't want him for reasons related to his personality.